Leaving during Plebe year? Advice from people who left during there plebe year...
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LongAgoPlebe
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I'm still around, though infrequently. You asked three questions (although many more are implied) and my advice may be a little disappointing, but here goes. How to act before leaving the academy: with as much class as possible. How to leave the Academy: with as much class as possible. What do do once you return home: Whatever your Plan B is - I personally hope that means enrolling in college or trade school.
If you know that USMMA is not for you, you do not need to belabor the point with the friends you've made (hopefully!), with your chain of command, with members of leadership you will have to talk to, briefings you will be required to attend. It didn't work out. Period. Even if it was the worst possible two months of your life EVER (heh, so far) it is (probably) not because USMMA did something so egregiously wrong as to wreck you forever. In that case, it's a matter of mismatched expectations. Period. You figured it out, you're moving on. Leave "clean." Leave whatever disappointment, bitterness, doubts, if any, behind and turn your view squarely forward. Remember how I wrote that some of my best habits come from my short 11 months at USNA? One is, "Eyes in the boat." To me it means, face fully forward, focus on the task at hand, be HERE now. So, face forward into your future when you depart.
Once you get home, you're going to have a lot of questions. Develop your story now. Hardly anyone cares as much as you do why you left. When they ask, "Why did you leave?" they're asking for - and you owe nothing more than - a short explanation. "It didn't work out for me. I figured out I didn't want to be a merchant mariner." Or whatever. Same goes for before you leave. Don't be That Guy/Girl pouring bile on everything before you leave. Remember, your friends and classmates are choosing to stay, so which one do you think they're going to lose respect and regard for: a place they're staying, or you for dumping s*** on the place they're staying? Yeah.
I highly, strongly recommend you finish out the term. Have some academic credits to show for your time. Think you can't put up with it? Well, that's just not true, because you already have. I figured it out and started formulating a plan for leaving in late January/February, but finished out the entire academic year so I'd have a full year's worth of credits to transfer. Sure, it meant four more months of chopping, chow calls, alpha inspections, Saturday murderball and other stupid stuff, but nothing was going to come between me and leaving on my own terms.
Enroll in college. Get a job. You'll probably feel a little lost or rudderless for a bit - pretty normal. Use that time to think about your "big picture" - what you want to do, who you want to be, where you want to end up in 5 years. Sure, it may change, but it's the process of figuring that out that matters as much.
Fair winds and following seas.
Okay, I see what you are saying. Just leave clean and professionally, smooth and without a problem. My only problem is some of the people I'll be leaving.
There are few of the people here that I made friends with. Some of the upperclassmen too. I guess I was a bit worried about their opinions.
Sorry, I just wanted some advice for my situation.
southpaw, I know this must be a very hard time for you but reach deep in your heart and do what is best for you. I would suggest you finish our the year so you have completed one year of college and have something to show for it. Completing one year will also give you a better overall understanding of what the school really is. Sometimes making a decision based on just the first few months is not accurate. If you still feel this way after recognition, by all means do not worry what your friends and uppers think…it is your life, not theirs. Those that have bonded closely with you will still remain friends and the others will just forget. USMMA is very specific school and if it does not gel with what you want to do with your life, it is nothing to be ashamed of. I would embrace the things you learned there and apply them to whatever path you decide to take. Hopefully this helps!
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I start with "I didn't leave, so I'm not EXACTLY sure how you'll feel" but I did see others leave, over a four year span, so I'll try to hit that.
Talk to your parents. If USMMA isn't the place for you, no harm no foul. You still have plenty of time to pick a new path (and even that could change).
You parents, like any parents, have dreams too, for themselves and for you. Maybe they liked the idea of you all spiffy in your uniform watching the Coast Guard Academy Bear beat up your sports teams.
Whatever it is, you earned for place at USMMA and you earned the right to decide whether you want to stay or leave. Know the first year at any academy isn't fun. I HATED my life from 2002-2003 at CGA, and I thought about leaving each week. I didn't because I had a reason to stay (I wanted to be in the Coast Guard). If you have no reason to stay at USMMA, well that first year can really be miserable.
While you've been away from home your parents have given updates to fmaily and friends. "Oh, little Billy's learning how to wear a uniform" or "Little Jane's driving boats" or "Little Pete's trying out for lacrosse." Like Facebook statuses, mostly people will hear the positive things you're doing. Heck, you likely mostly talk about the stuff you're proud of with you parents.
So when you get home, people will wonder what happened. "I thought you were doing well" or "I thought you really liked it". They'll ask you, or they'll ask your parents.
If the reason you're leaving is USMMA isn't the right school for you and you don't want to be in the U.S. Merchant Marine fleet.... well, I think you have a good reason. If you hate the school, but want that future, well, the experience at USMMA will get better (besides losing to CGA... ).
As in all things, honesty is the best policy. If you didn't like USMMA, tell them. If it wasn't a good fit, tell them. If you didn't want to go to see, tell them.
What I wouldn't do is make excuses. People will form their own opinions when you make excuses or belittle the institution.
I graduated from a magnet high school in 2002. A guy a year ahead of me went to West Point. I don't get the feeling he liked it, but he did well and graduated. A few years later a girl went to West Point and a guy and girl went to the Air Force Academy (I can't remember if they were all in the same class). The West Point girl left in the first month or so. "I couldn't see myself killing people." OK, that's not a bad reason... she probably should have thought of that before. The AFA guy left in the first year, he said it was too easy, not a challenge, people were dirt bags, he was too good, etc. Well, I don't buy that. I suspected he didn't make many friends with his approach. The other AFA girl did well and graduated.
Some people want to make excuses when they leave. There's no reason to. If you decide to leave, there's no shame in it, no reason to feel bad. Just be ready to answer the questions that are bound to come your way, honestly. You took a test drive in a new car, and decided not to buy it.... that's no problem at all.
Talk to your parents. If USMMA isn't the place for you, no harm no foul. You still have plenty of time to pick a new path (and even that could change).
You parents, like any parents, have dreams too, for themselves and for you. Maybe they liked the idea of you all spiffy in your uniform watching the Coast Guard Academy Bear beat up your sports teams.
Whatever it is, you earned for place at USMMA and you earned the right to decide whether you want to stay or leave. Know the first year at any academy isn't fun. I HATED my life from 2002-2003 at CGA, and I thought about leaving each week. I didn't because I had a reason to stay (I wanted to be in the Coast Guard). If you have no reason to stay at USMMA, well that first year can really be miserable.
While you've been away from home your parents have given updates to fmaily and friends. "Oh, little Billy's learning how to wear a uniform" or "Little Jane's driving boats" or "Little Pete's trying out for lacrosse." Like Facebook statuses, mostly people will hear the positive things you're doing. Heck, you likely mostly talk about the stuff you're proud of with you parents.
So when you get home, people will wonder what happened. "I thought you were doing well" or "I thought you really liked it". They'll ask you, or they'll ask your parents.
If the reason you're leaving is USMMA isn't the right school for you and you don't want to be in the U.S. Merchant Marine fleet.... well, I think you have a good reason. If you hate the school, but want that future, well, the experience at USMMA will get better (besides losing to CGA...
).As in all things, honesty is the best policy. If you didn't like USMMA, tell them. If it wasn't a good fit, tell them. If you didn't want to go to see, tell them.
What I wouldn't do is make excuses. People will form their own opinions when you make excuses or belittle the institution.
I graduated from a magnet high school in 2002. A guy a year ahead of me went to West Point. I don't get the feeling he liked it, but he did well and graduated. A few years later a girl went to West Point and a guy and girl went to the Air Force Academy (I can't remember if they were all in the same class). The West Point girl left in the first month or so. "I couldn't see myself killing people." OK, that's not a bad reason... she probably should have thought of that before. The AFA guy left in the first year, he said it was too easy, not a challenge, people were dirt bags, he was too good, etc. Well, I don't buy that. I suspected he didn't make many friends with his approach. The other AFA girl did well and graduated.
Some people want to make excuses when they leave. There's no reason to. If you decide to leave, there's no shame in it, no reason to feel bad. Just be ready to answer the questions that are bound to come your way, honestly. You took a test drive in a new car, and decided not to buy it.... that's no problem at all.
Agree with LITS. Just make sure to own the decision. Be confident in your decision. If you are not, then stick it out until you are confident one way or another. If its Plebe stuff that is getting to you then stick it out. If you don't want to be a Merchant Mariner, then yeah leave. Just be 100% on it.
From what I can remember on classmates who left:
Plebe year we had one guy leave. He went to Penn State for a year prior to USNA and went back. He did not do ROTC before or after. He graduated from there I think with an Econ degree.
2nd class year we had one company mate who did not sign his 2 for 7 papers. He went on to Columbia for undergrad and grad and is a journalist now.
2nd class year we had one plebe leave. His brother was in the music industry and thought he would just live off his money. He turned into a coke head.
Firstie year we had one plebe leave. He was a prior enlisted Marine. They let him go and I am not sure where he ended up.
We had one Firstie in my company who was tossed out the week we graduated. He is still enlisted to this day. Actually one of my other company mates from my class ended up being his Division Officer... talk about awkward. He still hasn't completed his degree to this day.
My plebe year one of my sponsor brothers was caught stealing as a Firstie. He was tossed out and sent to the fleet. He did 4 years and now is a lawyer. Great guy with a great family. He came from a horrible family as a child and tried to steal shoes to give to his brother as a gift. It was sad. But he faced his consequences like a man and never complained.
My second semester Plebe Year squad leader was tossed out for smoking pot on spring break. Yes less than 3 months prior to going to flight school he did that... stupid. They sent him to the fleet.
I can remember a total of 6 people I knew who left either during 2 for 7 or prior to it. They re applied and got back in. Yes 6. Like I said, make sure you are 100%. These 6 people were great Mids. One was the kid of a Colonel and her brother was a Mid too. She knew exactly what she was getting in to. She regretted it, re-applied and graduated 1 class behind her original one. The others worked hard to get back in. Alot of them said they got caught up in the chaos and forgot what they were there for. Once they left the got a great deal of perspective and regretted it. Most of them are either still on active duty or have successful post military careers.
Until you are 100% on your decision stick it out and research other options. But if being a Merchant Mariner still interests you... give it a fair shake. Best of luck.
From what I can remember on classmates who left:
Plebe year we had one guy leave. He went to Penn State for a year prior to USNA and went back. He did not do ROTC before or after. He graduated from there I think with an Econ degree.
2nd class year we had one company mate who did not sign his 2 for 7 papers. He went on to Columbia for undergrad and grad and is a journalist now.
2nd class year we had one plebe leave. His brother was in the music industry and thought he would just live off his money. He turned into a coke head.
Firstie year we had one plebe leave. He was a prior enlisted Marine. They let him go and I am not sure where he ended up.
We had one Firstie in my company who was tossed out the week we graduated. He is still enlisted to this day. Actually one of my other company mates from my class ended up being his Division Officer... talk about awkward. He still hasn't completed his degree to this day.
My plebe year one of my sponsor brothers was caught stealing as a Firstie. He was tossed out and sent to the fleet. He did 4 years and now is a lawyer. Great guy with a great family. He came from a horrible family as a child and tried to steal shoes to give to his brother as a gift. It was sad. But he faced his consequences like a man and never complained.
My second semester Plebe Year squad leader was tossed out for smoking pot on spring break. Yes less than 3 months prior to going to flight school he did that... stupid. They sent him to the fleet.
I can remember a total of 6 people I knew who left either during 2 for 7 or prior to it. They re applied and got back in. Yes 6. Like I said, make sure you are 100%. These 6 people were great Mids. One was the kid of a Colonel and her brother was a Mid too. She knew exactly what she was getting in to. She regretted it, re-applied and graduated 1 class behind her original one. The others worked hard to get back in. Alot of them said they got caught up in the chaos and forgot what they were there for. Once they left the got a great deal of perspective and regretted it. Most of them are either still on active duty or have successful post military careers.
Until you are 100% on your decision stick it out and research other options. But if being a Merchant Mariner still interests you... give it a fair shake. Best of luck.
I start with "I didn't leave, so I'm not EXACTLY sure how you'll feel" but I did see others leave, over a four year span, so I'll try to hit that.
Talk to your parents. If USMMA isn't the place for you, no harm no foul. You still have plenty of time to pick a new path (and even that could change).
You parents, like any parents, have dreams too, for themselves and for you. Maybe they liked the idea of you all spiffy in your uniform watching the Coast Guard Academy Bear beat up your sports teams.
Whatever it is, you earned for place at USMMA and you earned the right to decide whether you want to stay or leave. Know the first year at any academy isn't fun. I HATED my life from 2002-2003 at CGA, and I thought about leaving each week. I didn't because I had a reason to stay (I wanted to be in the Coast Guard). If you have no reason to stay at USMMA, well that first year can really be miserable.
While you've been away from home your parents have given updates to fmaily and friends. "Oh, little Billy's learning how to wear a uniform" or "Little Jane's driving boats" or "Little Pete's trying out for lacrosse." Like Facebook statuses, mostly people will hear the positive things you're doing. Heck, you likely mostly talk about the stuff you're proud of with you parents.
So when you get home, people will wonder what happened. "I thought you were doing well" or "I thought you really liked it". They'll ask you, or they'll ask your parents.
If the reason you're leaving is USMMA isn't the right school for you and you don't want to be in the U.S. Merchant Marine fleet.... well, I think you have a good reason. If you hate the school, but want that future, well, the experience at USMMA will get better (besides losing to CGA...
As in all things, honesty is the best policy. If you didn't like USMMA, tell them. If it wasn't a good fit, tell them. If you didn't want to go to see, tell them.
What I wouldn't do is make excuses. People will form their own opinions when you make excuses or belittle the institution.
I graduated from a magnet high school in 2002. A guy a year ahead of me went to West Point. I don't get the feeling he liked it, but he did well and graduated. A few years later a girl went to West Point and a guy and girl went to the Air Force Academy (I can't remember if they were all in the same class). The West Point girl left in the first month or so. "I couldn't see myself killing people." OK, that's not a bad reason... she probably should have thought of that before. The AFA guy left in the first year, he said it was too easy, not a challenge, people were dirt bags, he was too good, etc. Well, I don't buy that. I suspected he didn't make many friends with his approach. The other AFA girl did well and graduated.
Some people want to make excuses when they leave. There's no reason to. If you decide to leave, there's no shame in it, no reason to feel bad. Just be ready to answer the questions that are bound to come your way, honestly. You took a test drive in a new car, and decided not to buy it.... that's no problem at all.
You see, I didn't really want to be a Merchant Mariner. I didn't want to attend a service academy, having my mind set on a traditional, but prestigious 4-yr university in my state. I had other plans for my life and was ready to work hard towards them. However, one of my neighbors told my parents and I about USMMA.
My parents were overjoyed about the news of this school and how great it was, what they do for me, and what I'll look like with the uniform on. My feelings contradicted almost all of their opinions. Throughout the entire application process, I had to force a smile whenever I talked to either parent about this. The only thing that brought me from telling them flat-out "No" was the chance of working on party cruise liners. But when I came here and found out the opportunities, there's only 1 American cruise liner available after graduation, and that's for those with the best GPA's, which I know I'm not going to get. Not being pessimistic or doubtful, just realistic because nautical stuff just isn't my thing.
But the joy on their faces was the major push for me to even bother attending this school. Especially when they started telling everyone they knew about my appointment. I mean, I haven't seen them that excited in my whole lives, just for me. So I decided to go here.
At the academy, I made some good friends here, but that won't keep me here at all. So now, my drive for staying here is nonexistent and I'm probably going to stay for just another week or 2 at most before I start the disenrollment process. I'm ready for all the hell I might and probably will face back at home, and will deal with it.
Well, actually extra college credits was probably one of the reasons I even got accepted. When applying here, I had 30+ college credits from a community college, while attending high school. So I have something to fall on when I return home. Plus, when I get home, I'm moving out as soon as possible because of some potential job interviews I'm setting up right now, as I attend USMMA.
I appreciate your advice of staying for the entire year, but I should have mentioned my credits for a better understanding.
Also, should I break this to my company-mates & classmates? I mean, I don't want to stress them out, but I feel like they should know. The last thing I want to do is be remembered as a jerk without at least explaining myself.
What's your suggestion, to anyone who wants to answer this? tell them on my last day there, or a little earlier, or when? Appreciate any response, good/bad.
*Also, I told my parents that I would try to stick it out for another 2-3 weeks, but I know I wont change my mind. So any advice on how to tell this to my parents? Again, appreciate any response.
What's your suggestion, to anyone who wants to answer this? tell them on my last day there, or a little earlier, or when? Appreciate any response, good/bad.
*Also, I told my parents that I would try to stick it out for another 2-3 weeks, but I know I wont change my mind. So any advice on how to tell this to my parents? Again, appreciate any response.
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One of the key reasons you are in this predicament is that you have not been direct with people you are supposed to care about. As a dad I would want my kid to be an adult and tell me exactly what he is going to do and why. My opinion only counted in high school....not in college. If they are upset, deal with it. It is part of life.
As for your classmates, present what you are doing with honesty. If they are truly your friends, they will get it.
usna1985
15-Year Member
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As others have said, the key is the reason you are leaving. If you've decided USMMA and the career paths it offers aren't right for you, then that's what you tell your parents and friends and whomever.
I don't know the USMMA process, but at USNA there is about a week +/- of paperwork, close-out etc that mids go thru when they decide to leave. When you start that process, your departure will become obvious to those around you, so I'd tell them at least just before that process starts. I'd tell your parents at the same time. You are an adult now and make decisions. Parents never stop being parents and will always try to provide "guidance" around your decisions; you'll learn that most of the time they're right and some of the time they're wrong.
As others have also said, consider why you're leaving now, as opposed to the end of the semester and/or the end of the ac year. It will be almost impossible to "transfer" to another college this semester. Even next semester, you're pretty much limited to a community college and you have nothing academically to show for this semester. Think about how you will pay for your college education going forward. Your parents may (wisely) be thinking of this. NOT suggesting the above should make you stay -- just be sure to think beyond the moment.
In that regard, a suggestion from someone who's seen a LOT of folks leave SAs, the military and various civilian jobs. Be sure you have a game plan going forward. Don't leave simply b/c USMMA "sucks"/isn't where you want to be -- figure out where you want to go/what you want to do and create a plan to get there as rigorous as the one that led you to USMMA. I saw lots of folks leave the USN for the sole reason that "anything" had to be better. For some it was; but quite a few came to regret their decision and found that the grass wasn't always greener. Those with a plan (such as myself) typically ended up happier/more satisfied with their decision to leave than those who didn't.
My father had a great saying in that regard: Wherever you are is the worst; wherever you're going is the best; and wherever you came from isn't as bad as you thought it was when you were there. Words to live by.
I don't know the USMMA process, but at USNA there is about a week +/- of paperwork, close-out etc that mids go thru when they decide to leave. When you start that process, your departure will become obvious to those around you, so I'd tell them at least just before that process starts. I'd tell your parents at the same time. You are an adult now and make decisions. Parents never stop being parents and will always try to provide "guidance" around your decisions; you'll learn that most of the time they're right and some of the time they're wrong.
As others have also said, consider why you're leaving now, as opposed to the end of the semester and/or the end of the ac year. It will be almost impossible to "transfer" to another college this semester. Even next semester, you're pretty much limited to a community college and you have nothing academically to show for this semester. Think about how you will pay for your college education going forward. Your parents may (wisely) be thinking of this. NOT suggesting the above should make you stay -- just be sure to think beyond the moment.
In that regard, a suggestion from someone who's seen a LOT of folks leave SAs, the military and various civilian jobs. Be sure you have a game plan going forward. Don't leave simply b/c USMMA "sucks"/isn't where you want to be -- figure out where you want to go/what you want to do and create a plan to get there as rigorous as the one that led you to USMMA. I saw lots of folks leave the USN for the sole reason that "anything" had to be better. For some it was; but quite a few came to regret their decision and found that the grass wasn't always greener. Those with a plan (such as myself) typically ended up happier/more satisfied with their decision to leave than those who didn't.
My father had a great saying in that regard: Wherever you are is the worst; wherever you're going is the best; and wherever you came from isn't as bad as you thought it was when you were there. Words to live by.
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SouthPaw, I talked with a lot of mids and sponsor daughters/sons as they headed out the door early at USNA. I had plenty who had misgivings from the get-go in high school, but couldn't steel themselves to express their doubts to beaming families laden with shopping bags from the Mid Store, proud high school staff, and all the others in their lives who had fallen in love with the Service Academy path.
What to tell others. Get a brief statement in your head, smile and say some version of "USMMA just isn't the right place for me. I am making plans to continue my education and find what's right for me. I have met a lot of great people here and learned a lot, but I have come to realize the career paths after graduation are not what interests me. Best of luck to you, and I'll stay in touch (if applicable). " Then change the subject.
What to tell your parents. You are making an adult decision, so you get to show up as an adult and own your life by making plans to finish your education, support yourself and give your parents peace of mind that you have made not only a decision to leave USMMA but you are actively making decisions that will put you on the path to being an independent, self-supporting and grown child. Have a
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What to tell others. Get a brief statement in your head, smile and say some version of "USMMA just isn't the right place for me. I am making plans to continue my education and find what's right for me. I have met a lot of great people here and learned a lot, but I have come to realize the career paths after graduation are not what interests me. Best of luck to you, and I'll stay in touch (if applicable). " Then change the subject.
What to tell your parents. You are making an adult decision, so you get to show up as an adult and own your life by making plans to finish your education, support yourself and give your parents peace of mind that you have made not only a decision to leave USMMA but you are actively making decisions that will put you on the path to being an independent, self-supporting and grown child. Have a
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SouthPaw, just to finish up my previous post (iPhone fat finger). Have a plan and execute it. Your positive actions will go a long way toward helping your parents to calm understanding. And learning how to share unwelcome news with family members is a valuable life skill.
Good luck!
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Good luck!
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Thank you. I appreciate the help.
And to anyone on this thread who have left their academy, can you tell me what you did exactly when you were preparing to leave?
-What did you do around campus throughout the process?
-How did people such as your company mates/ classmates/ friends react to your news?
-How "obvious" was it when you were preparing to leave?
-Did you take anything from the academy, or were you able to keep some articles of clothing from the academy?
-How long did it take to fully resign and get out?
Finally, when you got home:
-How did your parents react/ behave when you returned?
-How did you spend your first week or two back?
-What type of plans did you make, or already have, to get back on your feet?
Again, thank you all for your input!
should I leave now, even though my parents and I thought about me staying for another 2 weeks, because I don't see the point of it if I won't change my mind.
I think you should stay till the end of the semester, not really gut it out because you can look online at schools you plan to attend, check in to majors, email schools. At the end of the semester you will be ready to start at the new school.
Those Fall classes will be golden for you when transferring to another school in the Spring.
2018midmom
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Stay until semester end is my suggestion. First, you will finish the credits you are currently working on which never hurts as you transfer. Second, it is a "natural" time to change course. Many students come home at Christmas break and enroll in different schools for a variety of reasons. Third, your parents may be more likely to either understand your decision because you did stick it out or at least see your "after action" plan and respect your new path. Coming home mid semester may look impulsive to them.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Okay, I understand that. But what if my grades aren't good grades whatsoever? I mean I tried to understand the subjects, but the teachers were of no help, they just sucked. The tutoring, peer study groups, and ridding extra activities for school has allowed me to pull up my grades a bit, but no college is going to want them. I figure I just make a smart move to leave ASAP so they will be marked as "W" or whatever letter meaning that they don't count as grades.