Led by the candidate

I did everything for my son. Filled out the application, SAT prep, medical history form, and even stood outside General Dynamics and paid a couple of retired O-6s to sign pre-written recommendation letters. My most awesome assist was running that physical fitness thing...whatever it’s called, with him. I paced him and cheered him on. I’m sure he would have done just fine alone, especially after I fed him half a bag of jelly beans.

That’s what the youth of this country needs. More parental involvement.
 
crescentwrench16 said:
I'm a '25 candidate to USNA, and I've been watching these forums for a few months now. One of the lessons I've seen being drilled into everyone's heads is that the application process for service academies should be driven by the candidate, not the parents, siblings, etc. But looking at many of the threads, especially the appointment lists, it seems that there is a significant number of parents active on these forums on their child's behalf.
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I think you're missing the point that all of the "doing" is the candidate, but the process of preparing for, researching and applying for any college tends to be a family project. It's no different if you visit boards for any of the big name schools.
 
Devil Doc said:
I did everything for my son. Filled out the application, SAT prep, medical history form, and even stood outside General Dynamics and paid a couple of retired O-6s to sign pre-written recommendation letters. My most awesome assist was running that physical fitness thing...whatever it’s called, with him. I paced him and cheered him on. I’m sure he would have done just fine alone, especially after I fed him half a bag of jelly beans.

That’s what the youth of this country needs. More parental involvement.
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It also needs an Irony Font or Tongue Wedged Firmly Into Cheek Font.
 
Op, I think one thing that stick out to me was you stating ‘parents here on behalf of their DS/DD’. While that may be what happens during the application cycle, and then they depart, many (🙋‍♀️) stick around to help and guide. People who have gained appointments, or joined ROTC, etc have met their goal, and don’t need to be here.

We found the forums when attending an ROTC admissions visit. And the Captain advised to look here for answers. Googling also brings people here. But often students do t need to actually JOIN to find answers to their questions.

It’s not odd to me at all that ‘adults/parents/experienced military’ are here. The questions asked by applicants need to be answered by someone. And people here have been through it.

There are threads, where people ask for current students to answer. Which happens occasionally when those students arent busy and can come back to pay it forward. But there are also parents/ALO/BGO/vets/ROO/field reps/ROTC/enlisted/DODMERB/etc that collectively have a lot to offer.

Everyone here has something to bring to the table. And enjoys helping others. Some don’t stick around and move on. But I don’t think anyone here is here ‘speaking on behalf of their DS/DD’. They are sharing what experiences they have had. Along WITH their DS/DD (if a parent).
 
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I have to say I discovered this forum after my son had already gone through the whole application process, and I wish I had found it earlier when he kept getting the "we need more information about that medical thing that your parents don't even remember being a thing but a doctor made an obscure note in your medical record back when you were 11" requests from DodMerb. He was able to get all of the paperwork satisfied, but after the fact I found a wealth of information here that would have made that process much easier. My son did all of the application paperwork, requested recommendations, submitted nominations, etc. himself. All I did was proof his essays when he asked me to. It was a lot of work for him, but like most of the parents here, we let the candidate take the lead because you have to really want it to wade through the minutia. I have stayed on the forum like many, just in case I can help just a little to someone new.
 
BTW, speaking to the wonderfulness that is the SAF, I’ve had 3 apply. Oldest with no knowledge of the SAF. Youngest two with knowledge, and guidance found here.

Oldest? No appointment. No ROTC. Younger two? Each received appointments and ROTC’s 🤔
 
crescentwrench16 said:
I'm a '25 candidate to USNA, and I've been watching these forums for a few months now. One of the lessons I've seen being drilled into everyone's heads is that the application process for service academies should be driven by the candidate, not the parents, siblings, etc. But looking at many of the threads, especially the appointment lists, it seems that there is a significant number of parents active on these forums on their child's behalf. This may not be a bad thing, but I was shocked by how many appointments were reported as "DS/DD". It seems to hover at just around 50% of them. This puzzles me, as I would have assumed it would be almost exclusively reported by the candidates themselves. After all, isn't it the candidate that should be the one to search these forums for answers, or at least post their own appointments (I know I've done my fair share of digging here). While I understand that there are many candidates who likely don't feel like explaining the entire convoluted application process to their parents (myself included, not that I don't love my parents, though), thus sending the parents searching these forums for some answers to the cryptic process and vocabulary, it seems that many ask questions and post on behalf of their child. This is just my observation. Does anybody have any thoughts on this, or has anybody seen a similar trend?
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I couldn't agree more as a candidate who did (and researched) 100% of the 2 ROTC scholarship applications (was awarded both AROTC and NROTC) + 2 academy applications all on my own. My parents still don't even know anywhere close to what I know about the admission process. Wish you a good luck with the Naval Academy admissions.
 
JCSDVM1 said:
Guilty as charged. DS is too busy with school, homework, working out, and playing video games. Whenever I mention a tidbit of info. I picked up on in the forum I get the eye roll. He has no interest in exploring this forum.
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That’s my DS exactly! But a great kid. Reveille is at 5:45 this a.m. and then we are off with his NJROTC unit to the woods for the first inter school orienteering competition since COVID.
 
My son did all of his application ... iirc he did it during school. I drove him to interviews, and I proofread his essays. I never saw his portal once.

He got an LOA and secured a nomination before we found these forums.

So I honestly believe OP is speculating.
 
When my son called the listed provider to schedule his medical exam, that provider told him they had no available appointments until March 2021. Keep in mind that this call was made in October 2020. My son made the appointment for March because that’s what he was told to do. He texted me the info while I was at work. I was very worried about that 5-month lag. It just didn’t seem right to me. So I started Googling during my lunch hour and stumbled upon this forum which I joined immediately and posted an “Is this normal” question in the DoDMERB section. The renowned Mr. Mullen answered right away that my son should email him his question. I was able to pass that information along, my son emailed, and due to the magic that is Larry Mullen, he was squared away the next day with a new provider who got him seen in two weeks which is why he was able to receive a full appointment offer as opposed to a contingent one during the CGA EA cycle. You can say that my son should have been concerned about the timeline himself and done the Googling/forum finding/question posing on his own. Maybe so. I think 17 year olds don’t have the same worry triggers that parents do and since no one in the family or his friend group has any experience with the admissions process and necessary screening, he had no basis for comparison and no sounding board. He is not a big worrier by nature. It may have been a “snow plow” parenting moment for me, I’m not sure, but I’m nothing but grateful for the help gained through this forum and I have found the information contained here to be invaluable. I love hearing about the various journeys to appointments, ROTC, and prep schools. I root for all these wonderful young people wanting to serve. Plus, the bacon thread and 2021 memes... I mean really, having found this forum, how could I possibly leave?
 
I think that although there is a full spectrum from entirely candidate led to very strong parent assistance, there is some great required independence inherent in this process. I wouldn’t say the same is true for the civilian college application.

At times when I’ve worried I’m doing too much on the back office side, I remind myself that my son will always have pride of ownership and will have grown tremendously as a result of having gone through this. I say that because he’s the one who trained hard and tested multiple times for those fitness exams, he’s the one who sat in all those interviews, he’s the one whose transcripts and test scores are being scrutinized and he’s the one who has placed countless calls to admissions, coaches, MOC offices.

Even if a parent wants to help as much as they can to ensure their child puts their very best foot forward, a successful service academy candidacy ultimately rests on the candidate’s shoulders. I admire everyone who fully completes an application. And those of you who do it entirely on your own likely deserve appointments just for that!
 
I think that most "successful young adults" these days have one thing in common; their parents are involved in their lives and make learning a part of their evolution growing up. I know we did. We instilled in ours that making yourself better in knowledge and skills throughout every day of your life is important because it will make life a lot easier for you and allow you to help others along the way.

Conversely, the great wisdom imparted to me by my Dad was "life gets harder and harder as you get older and then you die".
I mean really, that's awesome. :biggrin:
 
THParent said:
I think that most "successful young adults" these days have one thing in common; their parents are involved in their lives and make learning a part of their evolution growing up. I know we did. We instilled in ours that making yourself better in knowledge and skills throughout every day of your life is important because it will make life a lot easier for you and allow you to help others along the way.

Conversely, the great wisdom imparted to me by my Dad was "life gets harder and harder as you get older and then you die".
I mean really, that's awesome. :biggrin:
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This is absolutely right.
 
Devil Doc said:
I did everything for my son. Filled out the application, SAT prep, medical history form, and even stood outside General Dynamics and paid a couple of retired O-6s to sign pre-written recommendation letters. My most awesome assist was running that physical fitness thing...whatever it’s called, with him. I paced him and cheered him on. I’m sure he would have done just fine alone, especially after I fed him half a bag of jelly beans.

That’s what the youth of this country needs. More parental involvement.
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Concur. Most of cadets-midshipmen will be O6s+ 25 years now...but for now at 17, I think most parents still wonder how this toddler can run faster than you and answer your basic questions as if they are paid high-priced lawyers 😇
 
Banzaipipeline said:
Concur. Most of cadets-midshipmen will be O6s+ 25 years now...but for now at 17, I think most parents still wonder how this toddler can run faster than you and answer your basic questions as if they are paid high-priced lawyers 😇
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“...will be O6s+ 25 years from now...”
 
Banzaipipeline said:
“...will be O6s+ 25 years from now...”
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Appreciate the mental picture and the point being made about how they grow up, but most won’t make it to O-6.

The promotion opportunity for each rank declines as the officer moves upward.

There are far fewer O-6 officers than O-1. Promotion opportunity for O-1 is close to 100%, the “fog-a-mirror” zone. Attrition weeds out people every year for involuntary reasons and after obligated service ends, for voluntary reasons as well.

Competitive promotion boards start for the rank of 0-4. Per law (DOPMA), the military services have caps on the number of officers in any one paygrade. If you aren’t promoted after a certain number of “looks” over a period of time, you have to get out. I believe if you make it to O-5, you are guaranteed statutorily to be able to stay for retirement eligibility purposes.

The promotion opportunity for O-6, for the officers currently at O-5 (who have been winnowed down from the O-1 starting group 20+ years earlier), is usually around 50%. That is not “50% of all O-1 officers will make it to O-6,” but “of those who have successfully competed at promotion boards and stayed in the service until O-5, 50% of those can be expected to promote to O-6.”

I am drawing on Navy experience. All the services are roughly the same, with some variations in percentage.
 
Banzaipipeline said:
Concur. Most of cadets-midshipmen will be O6s+ 25 years from now...but for now at 17, I think most parents still wonder how this toddler can run faster than you and answer your basic questions as if they are paid high-priced lawyers 😇
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Is that really true? Or will most never serve long enough or regardless of years of service never attain the pay grade of O-6?
 
Capt MJ said:
Appreciate the mental picture and the point being made about how they grow up, but most won’t make it to O-6.

The promotion opportunity for each rank declines as the officer moves upward.

There are far fewer O-6 officers than O-1. Promotion opportunity for O-1 is close to 100%, the “fog-a-mirror” zone. Attrition weds out people every year for involuntary reasons and after obligated service ends, for voluntary reasons as well.

Competitive promotion boards start for the rank of 0-4. Per law (DOPMA), the military services have caps on the number of officers in any one paygrade. If you aren’t promoted after a certain number of “looks” over a period of time, you have to get out. I believe if you make it to O-5, you are guaranteed statutorily to be able to stay for retirement eligibility purposes.

The promotion opportunity for O-6, for the officers currently at O-5 (who have been winnowed down from the O-1 starting group 20+ years earlier), is usually around 50%. That is not “50% of all O-1 officers will make it to O-6,” but “of those who have successfully competed at promotion boards and stayed in the service until O-5, 50% of those can be expected to promote to O-6.”

I am drawing on Navy experience. All the services are roughly the same, with some variations in percentage.
Click to expand...

You see a lot of O-5 retirees from all branches because promotion beyond O-5 gets much more difficult.
 
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