Led by the candidate

Banzaipipeline said:
Concur. Most of cadets-midshipmen will be O6s+ 25 years now...but for now at 17, I think most parents still wonder how this toddler can run faster than you and answer your basic questions as if they are paid high-priced lawyers šŸ˜‡
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I understand your point, but keep in mind that "most" cadets/midshipmen, etc. will not make it to O-6, let alone still be in their respective service 25 years from graduation.

If you meant "most" cadets/midshipmen that stay 25 years or more will be O-6 then I think that is a fair assumption. ;)
 
Devil Doc said:
I did everything for my son. Filled out the application, SAT prep, medical history form, and even stood outside General Dynamics and paid a couple of retired O-6s to sign pre-written recommendation letters. My most awesome assist was running that physical fitness thing...whatever itā€™s called, with him. I paced him and cheered him on. Iā€™m sure he would have done just fine alone, especially after I fed him half a bag of jelly beans.

Thatā€™s what the youth of this country needs. More parental involvement.
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@Devil Doc
What kind of Dad are you? Did you leave out doing the interviews for his nom and writing his essays or just leave him hanging to do those on his own? Sounds like you really weren't working hard enough to help him out. Shame on you.

(Now where is that sarcasm / irony / tongue in cheek emoji?)
 
It is up to every candidate to work with his/her TEAM (parents, GC, teachers, coaches, etc) and define the roles of each. There is no right or wrong answer, only to make sure everyone is in agreement on the dynamics and what is helpful vs. enabling. Just stay in your own lane. If you want to wear Spongebob flannel PJs and eat gas station sushi in your car, that stays in your car, just don't do something that doesn't work for your car and have to pull over and get out screaming.

And for some, that means excluding parents - perhaps they are helpfully unhelpful. Can I get this off my chest? My DH had cancer. My sister was truly helpful, coming for a week and helping with anything and everything without annoying anyone. My MIL was asked to come the LAST day of his treatment because I could not, and her first 2 responses were, "I'll probably be late because there is traffic" and "I don't know how to get there". She did come, but then left right before the critical moments when he was wheeled down for treatment - she had to rush home to walk her dogs. Prime example of helpfully unhelpful. More unhelpful and exhausting than had we had no one there the last day.

For others, parents are an integral part and help tremendously. I think i'm the latter! And if you roll your eyes and think I did or currently do too much, that is your opinion, and I don't have time to argue with that - i'm too busy seeing what I can add from a parent's perspective to SAF, getting stock photos in DD's "USAFA 2020-2021" Snapfish album, snarking who's not pulling their weight in the parents club, and making the most super awesome "CONGRATULATIONS" banner for DD's recognition.

So for some, "doing it all by themselves" may be the accurate and appropriate route. For others, like my DD, it is a sign of maturity and leadership to get those with relevant knowledge to help her be her best. As a CPA, I would expect her to call me before submitting her first tax return. But it is the parents job to listen carefully - and the keys were that she had already done it herself, asked the upperclass for advice and her 2 prep roommates that had done it before, and then was double-checking with me, not expecting me to do it for her.
 
Agree 100% with @HCopter above.

It is also interesting to read the range of opinions on the issue of "how much did the candidate do themselves" as part of schoolwork, essays, apps, life, etc.

Keep this in mind: EVERY candidate for EVERY SA had some type of help, advice and encouragement along the way. Whether it was in the form of parents, extended family, guardians, siblings, coaches, clergy, financial help, teachers, JROTC leaders, moral support, admissions counselors, BGO/AO/ALO/RCs/etc., Scoutmasters, resources, friends, peers, social media, this forum or whatever.

There seems to be a fair amount of people that state "my DD/DS always did everything 100% themselves" when that is simply not true. There are also people that seem to believe that any applicant that received support (or too much support) will somehow be at a disadvantage at a SA, the military, in life, etc. when that also is at least partially not correct (depending of course on the circumstances).

As far as the SA applicants are concerned, no matter what level of support may have been provided, the applicant still has to earn the grades, take the tests, earn the recommendations, perform on the field/court, pool, etc., ace the interviews, do well on the ACT/SAT and write the essay (no Rick Singer jokes please), select and attend the ECs and lead where needed, earn the Nom, and do well on the CFA/PFE.

I would think that there are a large number of parents/guardians, etc. that were the main and driving force behind the application itself, DoDMERB scheduling and other coordination on the entire process - and way more than are going to come on here and admit it. That doesn't mean the applicant will not be successful at an SA, in the military or life. If the parents were that force, the applicant (if admitted) will still have to show up and perform no matter what they did or didn't do as part of the process.

Is there a drawback for not being more "self-sufficient" in the process? Perhaps, but even if that is the case please show me a successful person at a SA, the military or in life that had no help at all and did it as a one man/one woman show. After all, one of the main tenets of success at any SA, the military and life in general is teamwork and helping others.

The Beatles were right when they said: "Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends.... (deleted to keep it PG-13).........Mm, gonna try with a little help from my friends....."
 
EEBTTF said:
There are also a lot of people here merely trying to provide guidance and information so that parents and candidates don't make some of the same mistakes we made (as parents and candidates). I lurked for a few years before joining and posting. I learned a lot, but my DS and I still made some mistakes in the process. The process of applying to multiple SAs, ROTC Scholarships, applying to multiple schools, finishing senior year...is an exercise in time and data management. It can be overwhelming for an 18 year old, especially in times like we are currently experiencing. This board is littered with stories of candidates that missed a step, or completed an ill advised step. My goal as a parent was an advisor, air traffic controller and calming influence.

I went through this same process 30 years ago and I wish there was a resource like this available to me. I am amazed at the level of knowledge and the broad range of experiences and expertise on display here.
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I had never heard of an air traffic controller parent but I love it. Letting the kids fly but applying guidance when necessary!
 
TLDR - My apologies for not reading the lengthy posts.

Iā€™d like to take full credit for where my kids are today. I help them when I can and intend to give them everything I have when Iā€™m gone.

I wish they were here to enjoy the bacon and cinnamon rolls I made this morning.
 
Variations on ā€œhelicopter parentā€:

- Cobra gunship model, helo parent (self-explanatory)
- Lawnmower parent (runs ahead of kid to smooth path)
- Snowplow parent (shoves obstacles out of the way)
- Drone overwatch (always there, even remotely)
- and now, air traffic controller!

Any others?
 
TheRightStuff said:
I understand your point, but keep in mind that "most" cadets/midshipmen, etc. will not make it to O-6, let alone still be in their respective service 25 years from graduation.

If you meant "most" cadets/midshipmen that stay 25 years or more will be O-6 then I think that is a fair assumption. ;)
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18th year in the US Army = LTC O5, Battalion Command. Unless if an officer is prior enlisted...
 
Capt MJ said:
I believe if you make it to O-5, you are guaranteed statutorily to be able to stay for retirement eligibility purposes.
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"Sanctuary" is at O-4. Officers who reach O4 who then fail select twice to O5 are not required to leave the service until reaching 20 yrs commissioned service.
 
OldRetSWO said:
"Sanctuary" is at O-4. Officers who reach O4 who then fail select twice to O5 are not required to leave the service until reaching 20 yrs commissioned service.
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During the major personnel downsizings in the late 80ā€™s and early 90ā€™s, that went out the window for many, because it wasnā€™t statutory and guaranteed, just a long-held custom. During that time, I think sanctuary was offered to O-4s who failed to select, who had either 18 or 19 years; they were allowed to stay to 20 and earn full retirement. I knew two officers, LCDRs, both with 17 years, who were separated with a small bonus payment, who had expected to stay to 20. There were hundreds more.

That was a difficult few years. Many active duty LTs with Reserve commissions who had not asked to augment to a Regular commission, found they were not offered orders if they had completed their initial obligated service, even if they wanted to stay in, and they were separated ā€œwith the thanks of the nation.ā€ I was a Flag Sec and N1 at a staff at the time, and learned more about the manpower side of the house during that tour than any other. I had ship COs in my office upset their top LTs with Reserve commissions were being given separation orders, while some of their lesser performers with Regular commissions were safe. I think this has been fixed in recent years - donā€™t NROTC grads now receive Regular commissions, not Reserve? I got a USNR commission out of OCS, and at two years, the Navy said they were going to augment me to a Regular USN commission unless I declined. My XO told me to take it, so I did.

For anyone reading this who is totally confused about Regular vs Reserve, just ignore. Itā€™s a fine point of manpower nomenclature, and Reserve and Regular types of commissions are something different than reserve vs. active duty. USNA grads receive Regular commissions. That means you serve at the pleasure of the Secretary of the Navy, and at the completion of your obligated service time, you may request to be separated from active duty, but under certain circumstances, your request may not be granted if the needs of the Navy require you to be held on active duty. Those with Reserve types of commissions are easier to cut loose.
 
Okay I should clarify, when I said "My DS has done everything himself"... his dream to be in the military began at a very early age 5 maybe on his own with no military life to be seen from us, I believe it's his God given dream to be a leader. Fast forward to 7th grade, a friend of mine from MD noticed his desire and said it would be awesome to go to USNA- we had really no knowledge of it, so we visited, his dream began to attend.
Grandpa told his friend about these dreams, unbelievably this friends neighbor was a retired Brigadier General who just so happened to be a BGO I believe. They talked, the General asked if he could mentor my son! WHAT! OF Course! this began the big journey. This mentor turned into 2 other mentors along the way that helped keep him on track. He has worked with them, texted them, called them on his own. I did not know this forum existed but for parents that don't have a Brigadier General on speed dial I would recommend reading everything you can on this forum.

My ds got on board fast with putting in the hard work to develop his leadership skills and preparing his life for big things. I can say we were air traffic controller parents :) fed him and advised him when he asked, drove him to all the sports, all the orchestra concerts, his job (he is now holding a manager position while completing Calculus). He wrote the essays he asked my MIL to proofread (who was an excellent English tutor) he would go to grandma's house to work on her computer while she made lunch and cookies. Now we are waiting to see how this journey will continue. I'm spending my waiting time on here being anxious, ds has patience and trust his path will work out the way it should.
 
justdoit19 said:
There are threads, where people ask for current students to answer. Which happens occasionally when those students aren't busy and can come back to pay it forward....... But there are also parents/ALO/BGO/vets/ROO/field reps/ROTC/enlisted/DODMERB/etc that collectively have a lot to offer.
They are sharing what experiences they have had. Along WITH their DS/DD (if a parent).
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OP, as mom of a Plebe, I can tell you that there is no way that my son or his 2024 friends have time to come on SAF and answer questions. He very much wants to help qualified candidates and is applying to be a NASS detailer so that he can give back the way NASS staff from class of 2024 gave to him....but on a day to day basis during the academic year? No way. When he's decompressing before sleep or after studying on the weekend, the last thing he wants to talk about in the precious few minutes is USNA. We had a recent front row view to an almost 5 year process of finding out how to go to USNA. I'm here to give back to the SAF because I sincerely believe some of the tips here contributed to the impression DS made on everyone in the process from 8th grade on. On his own, he might not have thought to ask BGO for input on high school class selections and he might not have gone to every Service Academy events where he met people who remembered him in MOC interviews. He might not have re-read his essays on the way to that MOC interviews, which prepared him for a question that apparently knocked other interviewees flat. When I pop on here, I'm talking to the parents as much as I'm talking to you, the candidate. We are all part of the team effort it takes for you to give the process your very best shot.
 
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