letter from Paul Revere Battalion?

dunninla said:
As I think this through, I just cannot believe that the 20% of $8M budget for ROTC scholarship for Privates that Marist menioned is for the entire country, all 8 Brigades... it just doesn't add up.
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2nd BDE has a Commision Quota of 711 for Mission Set 2016. If only 140 (20%) of those 711 get 4 Year Scholarships from the National Board, and they are allocated 80/20 towards public schools then the results might look like this:

28 scholarships to private schools with avg tuition of $29,000 for $812,000
112 scholarships to private schools with avg tuition of $10,000 for $1,120,000

This would put 2nd BDE at 25% of Cadet Command's budget. This is higher than normal, but not by much.

In an average year about 60% of my battalion's commissionees are on scholarship, but less than half of these would be 4 year scholarship winners.
 
Marist,

Did you mean..."112 scholarships to Public schools with avg tuition of $10,000 for $1,120,000.

Just wondering.

Great explanation.
 
Marist --

OK, I think I've found what didn't add up for me.

First, if I read your latest post correctly, the # of scholarship awards are to be divided 80% public, 20% Private, rather than my interpretation that 20% of the Budget was for Private. That's very different. Assuming a $30,000 Private and $10,000 Public tuition, the Budget dollar split is closer to 50/50.

Second, I now realize when you wrote "freshman" in your post, and that that probably means you're only referencing "4 Yr. Scholarship Award to HS Seniors". I'm realizing now that there are more budget buckets and your post doesn't apply to those... your post only applies to Bucket 1 below: 4 Yr. scholarships to HS seniors.

Bucket 1: 4 Year Scholarships for HS Seniors: $8M, 80% of the awards are for use at in-state publics, and 20% to Private. Probably Budget split: $3.5M Private, $4.5M Public
Bucket 2: 3 Year AD Scholarships for HS Seniors (unknown amount, unknown split)
Bucket 3: 4 (quite rare I would think), 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2 Yr. Scholarships awarded to ON CAMPUS cadets (unknown amount, unknown split).

I can see how the 4 Yr. Scholarship award to HS Seniors might actually be the smallest of the three buckets pertaining to a Year Group's budget. I hope that by cutting the Bucket 1 money in half, that Cadet Command keeps the other two Buckets funded at he same level, or at least not cut by 50%.
 
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dunninla said:
Marist --

OK, I think I've found what didn't add up for me. I now realize when you wrote "freshman" in your post, and that that probably means you're only referencing "4 Yr. Scholarship Award to HS Seniors". I'm realizing now that there are more budget buckets and your post doesn't apply to those... only to 4 Yr. scholarships to HS seniors.

Bucket 1: 4 Year Scholarships for HS Seniors: $8M, 80% of which is for use at in-state publics.
Bucket 2: 3 Year AD Scholarships for HS Seniors (unknown amount)
Bucket 3: 4 (quite rare I would think), 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2 Yr. Scholarships awarded to ON CAMPUS cadets (unknown amount).

I can see how the 4 Yr. Scholarship award to HS Seniors might actually be the smallest of the three buckets pertaining to a Year Group's budget. I hope that by cutting the Bucket 1 money in half, that Cadet Command keeps the other two Buckets funded at he same level, or at least not cut by 50%.
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Everything you wrote is consistent with the messages I am receiving. The number of Cadets on scholarship should not change by any significant amount but the total dollar value of the scholarships awarded will shrink dramatically.

I also received an email today that stated 2nd BDE's intent of reducing the number of commissionees from 711 to 682 (4%) for Mission Set 2016.
 
Using $35,000 as an average Private Tuition+Fees across the US, and $10,000 as an average Public Tuition+Fees, and using an $8M budget, and using the 80% of Awards are for use at Public, we can approximate the 4 Yr. Cadet Command issued Scholarship awards thusly:

Tuition Private // $35,000 // 107 Private 4 Yr. Awards // $3,745,000 spend
Tuition Public // $10,000 // 428 Public 4 Yr. Awards // $4,280,000 spend


Which gives us 107 4 Yr. Scholarship Awards to Privates, and 428 to Publics for this Award season for Year Group 2016, for a total of 535 4 Yr. Scholarships for HS Seniors.

What we don't know is what is behind Door #2, or Bucket #2 that I mentioned in the post above. It could very well be that for every 4 Yr. Scholarship awarded to a Private school, there are three 3 Yr. Advanced Designee scholarships awarded to privates. From the posts here this past March, the 3 Yr. AD scholarships to Privates far outnumbered the 4 Yr. scholarships to Privates. The typical pattern out of the third Board was: 3 Yr. AD to Private, or 4 Yr. to Public, awardee's choice.

Or, using $39,000 as an average Private Tuition+Fees, we get slightly different numbers:

Tuition Private // $39,000 // 101 Private 4 Yr. Award // $3,939,000
Tuition Public // $10,000 // 404 Public 4 Yr. Award // $4,040,000

for a total fo 505 4 Yr. scholarships to HS Seniors for the country for this Year Group 2016..
 
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dunninla,
Excellent insight! Do you know approximately how many total AROTC applicatants for this Award Season?

Thanks!
 
sorry, no I can't remember that. I am going to guess at 8,000, and based on above:

101 4 Yr. Scholarship to Private
202 3 Yr. AD Scholarship to Private (this is a total guess... could be 300+)
404 4 Yr. Scholarship to Publics

Total 607 scholarships out of 8,000 applicants, or about 7.5%
 
Marist College ROTC said:
Everything you wrote is consistent with the messages I am receiving. The number of Cadets on scholarship should not change by any significant amount but the total dollar value of the scholarships awarded will shrink dramatically.

I also received an email today that stated 2nd BDE's intent of reducing the number of commissionees from 711 to 682 (4%) for Mission Set 2016.[/QUOTE]

Will this number of commissionees include Guard/Reserve and AD comissions? Would it be likely that 2nd BDE's numbers would be comparable for other BDE's? Unsure of which BDE DS's school is in, Ohio, but more concerned about this number being significantly reduced for 2015, 2016 than the number of scholarships. Thanks for any follow up provided.
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Thanks again for the insight to the numbers for Class of 2016...very tough to earn a ROTC Scholarship this year!
 
It's odd... I cannot find anywhere the actual number of:

- AROTC Scholarship applications started
- AROTC Scholarship applications completed and Boarded

does anybody have this information? I'm sure it's been posted on this Board somewhere, but I cannot find with the search feature.

I can only refer to Navy ROTC publications from the NETC for 2009: 4000 NROTC scholarship applications as a target + 200 Nursing

And a 2010 December NETC publication indications 1.100 scholarships (not counting ISR, ASR, HBCU) awarded.

The problem is that the Navy # of applications is not very comparable to Army because:

1) Navy is offered on only about 30% the campuses that Army is
2) Navy is 85% STEM major required, which would discourange many applicants who are not STEM (that is, most potential applicants).
3) Navy is less flexible in initial career pathing (for example, Military Intelligence is a Billet a Navy Officer can apply for only after 3 years served in primarly billet: Subs, SWO, Aviation).
4) Well, Navy just sucks compared to Army, except in football ... everybody knows that, right?

OK, forget points 3) and 4) above. Just having fun.

Now, who knows how many AROTC applications there are from HS Seniors in an average year?
 
~500 AROTC scholarships surprises me as that is less than 1/2 of a USMA class. 8000 applications also surprises me when USMA claims ~14,000 applicants.
 
Remember that the number of those commissioned without scholarships may very well exceed the 500 figure you cited.
 
EDelahanty said:
Remember that the number of those commissioned without scholarships may very well exceed the 500 figure you cited.
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The majority of ROTC commissioned 2nd LT last year were not on scholarship... not that I was there, but that's what I read. In the current freshman MSI class at most ROTC campuses this fall, the *vast* majority of cadets are not on any form of scholarship. Remember that one of the key objectives of any ROTC Cadre is to recruit existing students on their campuses into the MSI classes, and then into the Program without scholarship, to expose them to the possiblity of serving as an officer in the Army.

Of course all non-scholarship, contracted, Advanced Standing MSIII get an annual stipend of $4,500 (paid monthly for 10 months -- MSIV is $5,000) and annual book allowance of $1,200 ... so not being on scholarship doesn't mean the same thing as getting no financial assistance.

P.S. Packer: that's just 4 Yr. scholarships to HS Seniors. It doesn't count 3 Yr. AD scholarships to HS Seniors, nor does it count 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2 etc. scholarships offered to cadets already participationg in a Battalion.
 
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2010 Stats

dunninla said:
It's odd... I cannot find anywhere the actual number of:

- AROTC Scholarship applications started
- AROTC Scholarship applications completed and Boarded

does anybody have this information? I'm sure it's been posted on this Board somewhere, but I cannot find with the search feature.

I can only refer to Navy ROTC publications from the NETC for 2009: 4000 NROTC scholarship applications as a target + 200 Nursing

And a 2010 December NETC publication indications 1.100 scholarships (not counting ISR, ASR, HBCU) awarded.

The problem is that the Navy # of applications is not very comparable to Army because:

1) Navy is offered on only about 30% the campuses that Army is
2) Navy is 85% STEM major required, which would discourange many applicants who are not STEM (that is, most potential applicants).
3) Navy is less flexible in initial career pathing (for example, Military Intelligence is a Billet a Navy Officer can apply for only after 3 years served in primarly billet: Subs, SWO, Aviation).
4) Well, Navy just sucks compared to Army, except in football ... everybody knows that, right?

OK, forget points 3) and 4) above. Just having fun.

Now, who knows how many AROTC applications there are from HS Seniors in an average year?
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http://www.army.mil/article/43561/

What you must remember is there is no average when is comes to awards; don't look backwards to try to project the present year's awards.
 
2011 Stats

The above link reminds me that I have not been able to locate equivalent statistics for 2011.
 
Thanks for the link.

If these data are correct, then combining the CC press release regarind YG 2014, Marist's reports on 2015 and 2016, referencing only 4 Yr. Scholarship:

Year Group // $Budget

2014: $51M from Cadet Command + On Campus?
2015: $15M from Cadet Command + unknown On Campus
2016: $8M from Cadet Command + unknown On Campus

At any rate, taken at face value, that is an enormous difference within three fiscal years.
 
Apples to Apples?

dunninla said:
Thanks for the link.

If these data are correct, then combining the CC press release regarind YG 2014, Marist's reports on 2015 and 2016, referencing only 4 Yr. Scholarship:

Year Group // $Budget

2014: $51M from Cadet Command + On Campus?
2015: $15M from Cadet Command + unknown On Campus
2016: $8M from Cadet Command + unknown On Campus

At any rate, taken at face value, that is an enormous difference within three fiscal years.
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I thought Marist's figures were only for the 2nd brigade not national as referenced in the link. Did I miss something?
 
Actually if you read Marist's post
2nd BDE has a Commision Quota of 711 for Mission Set 2016. If only 140 (20%) of those 711 get 4 Year Scholarships from the National Board, and they are allocated 80/20 towards public schools then the results might look like this:

28 scholarships to private schools with avg tuition of $29,000 for $812,000
112 scholarships to private schools with avg tuition of $10,000 for $1,120,000

This would put 2nd BDE at 25% of Cadet Command's budget. This is higher than normal, but not by much
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Than the numbers do jive to 8 million. He has 2 million for 2nd BDE, and it being 25% of the entire budget.

That is a little frightening to look at regarding the budget drop.

You probably cannot find the 11 numbers yet because FY11 only ended 18 days ago. Remember budgets for the military run Oct.1 to Sept 30th. The data would at this point just be completed because as we know scholarships are not activated when they accept it, they are activated when they arrive at the school and contract there. Most schools will not do the PFT until sometime in early Sept.

It appears either way you roll it, all of the ROTC branches are returning to the days of scholarships are RARE and not the norm as it was back in the 90's. I would think that because of the economy and rising costs for even IS colleges, the statistical chance of getting one would be less than the 90's. Simple supply and demand.

Packer said:
8000 applications also surprises me when USMA claims ~14,000 applicants.
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I agree, especially since SA candidates are pounded into their mind that they need to do plan B, which is usually ROTC scholarship, which is not true for ROTC candidates. I would assume that the number would be more @20K applications opened.

When you read the SA numbers you need to understand that not all of them actually compete. Some open packets, but never complete them, yet the SA will claim them as applicants. The actual completed pool is much smaller, probably around 9-10K. Which is still larger than the 8K for AROTC.
 
Thanks for the clarification

Pima said:
Actually if you read Marist's post


Than the numbers do jive to 8 million. He has 2 million for 2nd BDE, and it being 25% of the entire budget.

That is a little frightening to look at regarding the budget drop.


DAUNTING, indeed. Even this year at DS's college there are something like 53 participants (which they cut from about 75 by PT results) with only one 4yr and one 3yr scholarship.
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