LOA-JROTC Nomination

[falconchic88]

So while no LOAs and Early appointments would seem the best solution to getting the BEST and most Qualified applicants; they would be defeating the purpose because the VERY BEST won't stick around. And considering that the top 300+ who AREN'T offered an appointment, is almost identically qualified as the 1300 who did eventually get an appointment; it is almost a non-issue on the quality of the eventual class. But the academy definitely wants as much flexibility as they can get. Can't fault them for asking. But they aren't going to revoke an "Early Appointment" they offered in October, using a presidential or other non-MOC nomination, because the individual didn't seek out a MOC nomination 2 months later. Just isn't going to happen.

This is a huge point, all the Academies reported that the applicants for the class of 2014 had a very large number of what they would consider "Highly qualified" candidates, and they were basically deciding "which arm to keep", because they could have gone with either one with out sacrificing the quality of the class.

 

[Mongo]

This is a huge point, all the Academies reported that the applicants for the class of 2014 had a very large number of what they would consider "Highly qualified" candidates, and they were basically deciding "which arm to keep", because they could have gone with either one with out sacrificing the quality of the class.

It’s not a point at all. Totally immaterial. Do you read my posts at all? I suppose that had your son not received an appointment and when you called, the admissions folks told you that they had so many highly qualified candidates that they simply had to flip a coin, your thoughts would be that there must be a better way than flipping a coin. You would be correct. There are. It is called the WPM. Each and every item that is used to determine qualifications is weighted and assigned points. The points are totaled. This is the WPM. Every decision that USNA makes must be based on Order of Merit. This WPM is that order of merit. When all is said and done and all the qualified are sorted by descending WPMs, the only gaps for those not offered appointments will be at the bottom of the list to capture some of the few Supt’s appointments and the MOC’s appointments where the lone qualified candidate was minimally qualified.

You keep saying this is the way USNA wants it to work, but I repeat, there was NOTHING ANYWHERE in my son's BFE /appointment letter that encouraged him in anyway to continue with the nomination process. I have seen no evidence that USNA wanted him to follow thru on those interviews. Did he apply to all nom sources? Yes. But once he had an appointment in hand, he felt guilty requesting a nom to USNA. He was even told by one MOC rep that he wouldn't even get a nom for USAFA since he already had a USNA appoinment!

Again, what the MOCs do cannot be controlled by the CGO. I think the standard verbage is to "pursue" all nominations available. No where have I ever seen that they tell anyone to stop pursuing once either an LOA or an appointment is in hand. I take it your son did not contact his Regional Director. I agree with both you and CC, that it is contradictory to common sense. However, in both cases with which I have been involved that it came up, their desire was to continue the nominations as far as allowed. Just ran into the parent of one of them yesterday and we were laughing about it.

 

[falconchic88]

It’s not a point at all. Totally immaterial. Do you read my posts at all? I suppose that had your son not received an appointment and when you called, the admissions folks told you that they had so many highly qualified candidates that they simply had to flip a coin, your thoughts would be that there must be a better way than flipping a coin. You would be correct. There are. It is called the WPM. Each and every item that is used to determine qualifications is weighted and assigned points. The points are totaled. This is the WPM. Every decision that USNA makes must be based on Order of Merit. This WPM is that order of merit. When all is said and done and all the qualified are sorted by descending WPMs, the only gaps for those not offered appointments will be at the bottom of the list to capture some of the few Supt’s appointments and the MOC’s appointments where the lone qualified candidate was minimally qualified.

Of course I've read your posts. I never said they were simply flipping a coin, and I know all about the WPM, Order of Merit, etc. I don't think you are the only one on this forum that has knowlege on how the admissions boards work. My point was that numerous candidates had very similiar WPMs and rank ordering them was a difficult task this year, and CC's point was spot on.

 

[Mongo]

. I don't think you are the only one on this forum that has knowlege on how the admissions boards work. My point was that numerous candidates had very similiar WPMs and rank ordering them was a difficult task this year, and CC's point was spot on.

Well, find one of them to help you understand the obvious, that the appointments, even though the task was difficult, did indeed go to the most qualified as determined by WPM and that CC's comment about the triple qualified that were not offered appointments being as good as those who were, is nothing but his unsubstantiated, and also incorrect, opinion. To endorse CC's comment is to believe that the Admissions office, had they acted accordingly, did not do their job properly.

 

[Christcorp]

The 3q I know who had the scores but not selected, was so because there simply was no mind available to them. And because of the way mind are done with Mic's, it is not uncommon for a non selectee to have a higher score than a selectee in a diff district or state.

 

[Christcorp]

Couple corrections. I responded to the last post with my Android, and I HATE Auto-Spell. If you hadn't figured it out, there's some spelling issues. "Noms" instead of "mind" and "MOC" instead of Mics.

Mongo; while you're correct that the WPM is ranked in order, it's NOT ranked from #1 through #6000 or however many qualified candidates there are. Well, let me qualify that. It is once it hits the "General Pool" but not initially. For those districts/states that don't rank their slate (Most don't), an applicant's WPM is ONLY ranked with the others going for that particular open nomination. So initially, you are only competing with those from your district and state. You could be theoretically the #1 in your state; qualified; and will get that MOC's open slot, and have a score lower than a person in another district/state. But once you make it to the general pool, then yes, the WPM is ranked from top to bottom and selected accordingly.

On a side note. I happened to have had a meeting with our Regional Director of Admissions today. I asked him specifically about the early appointment, seeking additional nomination, etc... that we were speaking of. As we all agree, if you have an LOA, you definitely want to seek all the possible nominations you can. By the time your selection for appointment could come around, the nomination you had, may or may not have an available slot left. So seeking others is obviously recommended. None of us seem to disagree on that. As for an "Early Appointment", the RD said it makes not sense to seek additional nominations from your MOCs. When they gave you the early appointment, the charged it to a specific open slot. "Obviously the non-moc nomination category for which you are authorized and were nominated. The RD said that they are not going to "re-shuffle" nominations around later. Once you received an appointment, it was charged to a slot, and that slot is taken out of circulation. They do these early appointments as said previously, similar to early admissions in traditional colleges. To get highly qualified individuals to commit to the academy. If they wait until ALL nominations are in, they know they'll lose many of them to other academies or to civilian schools where they've been accepted and possibly offered scholarships. The RD did admit that the Navy could do it differently, but that trying to juggle a couple hundred appointments around, because of additional nominations, when the overwhelming majority of these early appointments are from nominations that aren't in common with each other or moc nominations, would be a "nightmare". So, for the air force, they don't juggle appointment nominations once they've been allotted to that particular appointment. Again, the navy could do this, but our RD said it's something they sure wouldn't want to try and do.

Anyway, just wanted to update my typos in the previous post and to comment on what our Regional Director for admissions said concerning early appointments. Once the individual receives an "APPOINTMENT", the nomination used towards that appointment is taken off the table and is no longer available, unless the appointee turns down the appointment.

 

[Mongo]

Mongo; while you're correct that the WPM is ranked in order, it's NOT ranked from #1 through #6000 or however many qualified candidates there are. Well, let me qualify that. It is once it hits the "General Pool" but not initially. For those districts/states that don't rank their slate (Most don't), an applicant's WPM is ONLY ranked with the others going for that particular open nomination. So initially, you are only competing with those from your district and state. You could be theoretically the #1 in your state; qualified; and will get that MOC's open slot, and have a score lower than a person in another district/state. But once you make it to the general pool, then yes, the WPM is ranked from top to bottom and selected accordingly.

Absolutely, which is what I said back up in post #63:

When all is said and done and all the qualified are sorted by descending WPMs, the only gaps for those not offered appointments will be at the bottom of the list to capture some of the few Supt’s appointments and the MOC’s appointments where the lone qualified candidate was minimally qualified.

And perhaps a SecNav active duty or reserve, but I doubt it. And MOH and deceased veteran's candidates only have to be minimally qualified.

For USNA, first off, with the exception of the few early appointments, all MOC slates are granted appointments as per the matrix for the best mix. Then the appointment list is filled in with remaining Presidentials, ROTC, SecNavs, etc etc, solely by the order of merit of each slate. Finally, by US Code, only after the above has been completed, will those from the national pool be offered appointments. Again, solely by order of merit. The result is a solid list top to bottom with no one not offered an appointment except the very few immediately above the bottom MOC appointments. And I have been informed on several occassions that there are not that many of those. Most Congressional Districts, even the less competitive, will most often have at least one highly competitive candidate. Anyone on this list, above the lowest ranking appointee from either the national pool, Presidential, or various SecNav appointment, who is not offered an appointment if qualified, no matter how close to the deadline his application, is a failure of the system and not in accordance with Federal Law.

if you have an LOA, you definitely want to seek all the possible nominations you can. By the time your selection for appointment could come around, the nomination you had, may or may not have an available slot left. So seeking others is obviously recommended. None of us seem to disagree on that.

Agree completely.

As for an "Early Appointment", the RD said it makes not sense to seek additional nominations from your MOCs.

For USNA, check with one's RD before making that assumption.

.

The RD did admit that the Navy could do it differently, but that trying to juggle a couple hundred appointments around, because of additional nominations, when the overwhelming majority of these early appointments are from nominations that aren't in common with each other or moc nominations, would be a "nightmare".

You have just confirmed the sole reason that annually everyone complains that USNA takes the longest of the three to award appointments. Their goal is that every single appointment is based on the most qualified available for that slot. And yes, it is at the expense of maximizing the number of candidates, if they are less qualified, that each MOC can appoint.

 

[falconchic88]

Heh, Mongo, I just saw a few early appointments awarded in the USNA thread, VIA thier JROTC nomination (thought they didn't give those out early?) any way, I sure hope they are still planning on doing their MOC interviews.

 

[Mongo]

Heh, Mongo, I just saw a few early appointments awarded in the USNA thread, VIA thier JROTC nomination (thought they didn't give those out early?) any way, I sure hope they are still planning on doing their MOC interviews.

Hopefully they will contact their Regional Director.

I never said they didn't give ANY. I was arguing CC's point that they were given out to the extent that there were no more available. There was only one that was solely ROTC and I doubt if there will be more than one or two more.

 

[falconchic88]

Actually this is what you said about USNA giving early appoinments using the 20 ROTC slots

Never happen. It could be a possible violation of federal law. Remember, the 20 appointments go to the 20 most qualified. Qualified at the cutoff date, not today. Should this individual not receive another valid nomination and then more than 20 individuals become more qualified than he, his appointment would be illegial. Therefore, USNA would never do it.

You were replying to this quote by CC:

Matter of fact, if you had an JrROTC Nomination today, I can guarantee you 99.9% that you would NEVER receive an LOA. WHY? Because you would instead receive an IMMEDIATE Appointment in Oct-Nov when they come out. Being LOA/Appointments don't come out in the air force until Oct/Nov, if you have a legitimate nomination PRIOR to then, and your application is 100% and all the other stuff; and the academy really wants you; you will not get an LOA. You'll get the appointment.

 

[falconchic88]

I think this horse is dead, but I think its important for those seeking information here to understand that people are offering their opinions on these forums, and not to take the information you read as the supreme authority, because no matter how knowledgeable someone may sound on a subject, it is still just their opinion, and may not be 100% accurate.
JMHO

 

[flieger83]

Hey folks!

I'm going to agree with FalconChic here...

This has been beaten to death pretty heavily...and a few folks have riled each others feathers a few too many times with semantics, etc., when I really KNOW each persons goal is to help out the candidate and prospective candidate!

Let's press ahead in that direction!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[Farleigh85]

DS received an offer of appointment from the USAFA (not USNA), charged against a presidential nomination, in mid-Novermber. He immediately called all three MOCs to cancel his interviews and was informed that the MOCs had received notification from the USAFA of his offer of appointment, and that the MOCs were also informed in the same letter that the USAFA wanted DS to continue with his interviews. Notwithstanding the letter, the senators cancelled their scheduled interviews. However, our representative asked him to come in for an interview in accordance with the USAFA's instructions. Then, when he called to verify the time of the interview, the representative's office informed him that they had changed their mind, and that since he already had an offer of appointment he should not come in for an interview. DS said that was fine, that he really didn't want to have to waste anyone's time on an interview, but that he was only trying to comply with the USAFA's instructions. Then he reminded them that he is also seeking an appointment to the USNA, and that because the USNA offers a major he is interested in that the USAFA does not offer, he might select the USNA over the USAFA if he receives an appointment offer from the USNA. So now the interviews are back on.

I mention this because it appears--at least in our DS's case--the USAFA is following the same procedure that Mongo says the USNA follows (i.e., even if an early offer of appointment is made under a presidential nomination, the USAFA wants him to continue to try to get an MOC nomination). DS is going to the interviews reluctantly, because he feels like he is potentially compromising another worthy candidate's chances. Nevertheless, he is following through with what he understands are the USAFA's instructions in this regard, and trusting that the USAFA has a good reasons for asking him to do so.

 

[Mongo]

DS received an offer of appointment from the USAFA (not USNA), charged against a presidential nomination, in mid-Novermber. He immediately called all three MOCs to cancel his interviews and was informed that the MOCs had received notification from the USAFA of his offer of appointment, and that the MOCs were also informed in the same letter that the USAFA wanted DS to continue with his interviews. Notwithstanding the letter, the senators cancelled their scheduled interviews. However, our representative asked him to come in for an interview in accordance with the USAFA's instructions. Then, when he called to verify the time of the interview, the representative's office informed him that they had changed their mind, and that since he already had an offer of appointment he should not come in for an interview. DS said that was fine, that he really didn't want to have to waste anyone's time on an interview, but that he was only trying to comply with the USAFA's instructions. Then he reminded them that he is also seeking an appointment to the USNA, and that because the USNA offers a major he is interested in that the USAFA does not offer, he might select the USNA over the USAFA if he receives an appointment offer from the USNA. So now the interviews are back on.

I mention this because it appears--at least in our DS's case--the USAFA is following the same procedure that Mongo says the USNA follows (i.e., even if an early offer of appointment is made under a presidential nomination, the USAFA wants him to continue to try to get an MOC nomination). DS is going to the interviews reluctantly, because he feels like he is potentially compromising another worthy candidate's chances. Nevertheless, he is following through with what he understands are the USAFA's instructions in this regard, and trusting that the USAFA has a good reasons for asking him to do so.

Thanks for posting. Since the laws are the same for both academies, it makes perfect sense that the processes are the same. While it is also evident why the Admissions folks desire candidates to obtain as many nominations as possible and also why the MOCs don't want to waste one of theirs, it can, as this thread has demonstrated, leave parents and candidates confused. And sometimes asking them to act on conflicting and illogical directions can be frustrating.