LOA Without A Nom -- Watch Out

Honestly.....I am a current outsider trying to get an appointment....but objectively speaking it appears that the system works and works well. You cannot tell me that USNA does NOT graduate leaders of honor and integrity. System ain't perfect but it's pretty close....trust thy admissions board.
 
Lou: Could USNA not have granted a VP or Supe nom to this candidate? He must not have measured up to the others competing for those nominations????

Yes, they can. However, there may be more LOAs w/o noms than you think. I have more than one and I'm only one BGO out of 3000+. There are only 50 Supe's noms and only 5 VP noms. And these are used for additional reasons than this one.
 
So, if an applicant in your nominating group was offered an appointment, there are only those sources to be used by usna for you?
 
I-day last year, I sat next to two parents whose child had a LOA and did not receive a nomination (yep, you read that right).

They told me the story - the MOC gave a nom to a less qualified candidate without a LOA. This family felt it was "politics" and approached their local parents club to see if there was anything that could be done. Obviously, something was done because I sat next to this candidate's parents and the candidate was inducted into USNA.

Don't know if this family's appeal came before or after a TWE, but wanted to share.

GoNavyMom
 
So, if an applicant in your nominating group was offered an appointment, there are only those sources to be used by usna for you?

Not sure I understand the question. If you are one of 10 nominees for a slot, one person will get that slot. The other 9 go into a national pool and may well still get an appointment. However, instead of being "counted against" the MOC, will be counted against some other source, such as SecNav. However, in order to get a SecNav appointment, you must (I believe) have a nom from another source, such as MOC or Pres.

If you don't get a nom from an MOC and aren't eligible for others (such as Pres., JRTOC, etc.), then you must hope that USNA will give you either a VP nome or a nom from a source that to which you can't apply but which can give appointments. The Supe is one of those sources. However, the number of such noms is very limited and there may not be enough for every LOA recipient who doesn't get a nom.

I-day last year, I sat next to two parents whose child had a LOA and did not receive a nomination (yep, you read that right).

They told me the story - the MOC gave a nom to a less qualified candidate without a LOA. This family felt it was "politics" and approached their local parents club to see if there was anything that could be done. Obviously, something was done because I sat next to this candidate's parents and the candidate was inducted into USNA.

Don't know if this family's appeal came before or after a TWE, but wanted to share.

I have had a candidate without an LOA or a nom still get an appointment. And it had nothing to do with the parents' club.

USNA has to make a judgment about those who receive LOAs. As I mentioned above, they are often handed out early in the process on the basis of limited information. It could be that, once full information is received -- and a candidate didn't get a nom -- that USNA decides this person wasn't as desirable as initially believed.

As for "lesser qualified" candidates -- that's in the eye of the beholder. It's very hard to know everything about another person, unless you're sitting on the nom committee for a given year. Maybe the "better qualified" candidate blew his interview. Maybe the recommendations for the "lesser" candidate were incredibly great. Far be it from me to defend MOCs; however, I think most try to do the right thing.
 
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Not sure I understand the question. If you are one of 10 nominees for a slot, one person will get that slot. The other 9 go into a national pool and may well still get an appointment. However, instead of being "counted against" the MOC, will be counted against some other source, such as SecNav. However, in order to get a SecNav appointment, you must (I believe) have a nom from another source, such as MOC or Pres.

If you don't get a nom from an MOC and aren't eligible for others (such as Pres., JRTOC, etc.), then you must hope that USNA will give you either a VP nome or a nom from a source that to which you can't apply but which can give appointments. The Supe is one of those sources. However, the number of such noms is very limited and there may not be enough for every LOA recipient who doesn't get a nom.

I have had a candidate without an LOA or a nom still get an appointment. And it had nothing to do with the parents' club.

USNA has to make a judgment about those who receive LOAs. As I mentioned above, they are often handed out early in the process on the basis of limited information. It could be that, once full information is received -- and a candidate didn't get a nom -- that USNA decides this person wasn't as desirable as initially believed.

As for "lesser qualified" candidates -- that's in the eye of the beholder. It's very hard to know everything about another person, unless you're sitting on the nom committee for a given year. Maybe the "better qualified" candidate blew his interview. Maybe the recommendations for the "lesser" candidate were incredibly great. Far be it from me to defend MOCs; however, I think most try to do the right thing.

One USNA grad, from dense populated small state and very competitive for SA's, that I know did not get into NASS, did get an LOA later, then didn't get a nomination.

Did alot of things to find a nom. Finally, scratched and fought through the bureaucracy, and soon got one from another MOC (not his) that did not have a candidate for USNA.

He then proceeded to graduate near the top of his class, as a leader of his class;

He chose USMC, and now 10 years after USNA, two tours in the ME, 3 babies with his USNA sweetheart, he is O-4 and waiting for O-5. Great guy, great Dad, great leader (beloved by his troops).

He knows the meaning of the saying, "If the door is closed, find an open window."

How bad do you want it? That's what those interviews by volunteers for the MOC are trying to find out?

I support the method from LOA's to Nomination interviews and then eval by the Academy's selection committee. It's a tough job leading troops in war or peace. It should be really hard to get an appointment. And, it should be hard to make it through the Academy too.

The waiting between nomination and the appointment decision, blue folder or the TWE, is just "good training", as we used to say (in the USMC) about anything resembling frustration and delay, etc. Get used to waiting.

Blue folder or TWE on April 15th - our nominee did his best. No NASS, no LOA, but he did get a nomination in an extremely competitive area and state.

If it's TWE, he says he will try again next year. Maybe it will be less competitive next year. He considered it and prayed about it before applying.

He wants it bad, and he knows alot about the Academy's life of plebe to firstie. He knows enough about the career in either Navy or USMC. That is what he wants.

God willing, he will get his chance to become one of the very best of America's future military leaders.
 
the MOC gave a nom to a less qualified candidate without a LOA

I think the correct line may be, the MOC gave 10 noms to less qualified candidates without an LOA. Not to be disrespectful here, but I would guess that most parents would feel this way if their son received an LOA and did not get a nom.

We see it all the time with SAs and Ivies, and other competitive schools. Some kids get LOAs or Early Decision that aren't ranked as high as others, and some kids go straight in with great grades and rank. But there are intangibles that we cannot measure. When another shoots pass us, we are upset.
 
Did alot of things to find a nom. Finally, scratched and fought through the bureaucracy, and soon got one from another MOC (not his) that did not have a candidate for USNA.

Dad, I don't believe it is possible these days to get a nom from another MOC. Others can quote chapter and verse of the law that requires nominee to live in the MOC's district. Otherwise, everyone would be applying to the MOC's in North Dakota!
 
How bad do you want it? That's what those interviews by volunteers for the MOC are trying to find out?

I would agree with Dad of Nom in this. As I mentioned in another thread, we are currently living outside of our home state. My son worked his hind-quarters off to buy a plane ticket home so he could meet and interview with the MOC assistants and volunteer as a counselor at a summer camp for another leadership opportunity. The ticket was pretty pricey given that our home is Alaska. He fell short and decided to sell his drum set to make up the difference. If there were any questions in his parents' minds that he was serious about the academy, that ended any doubts. Better yet, for me, he didn't even tell them he paid his own way, but I definitely think that delivering his completed packages in person in August made an impression.

Of course, I am sure that there are times when it is political. I feel for any candidate who is highly competitive and cannot get a nomination.
 
USNA1985 Do you know anything about the criteria the Sup uses for his nominations? Are these mostly for athletes needing a nom for their appointments? Used for minorities? Do these become public record at some point? The info. you provide is very helpful. Thanks for your time.
 
USNA1985 Do you know anything about the criteria the Sup uses for his nominations? Are these mostly for athletes needing a nom for their appointments? Used for minorities? Do these become public record at some point? The info. you provide is very helpful. Thanks for your time.

I don't know. I've had one candidate in a decade get one and this person was not a minority. While an athlete, I wouldn't say the person was a blue-chip nor heavily recruited. I've never heard that Supe's noms are used for minorities and/or athletes any more than any other candidates. I don't believe Supe's noms are public record -- nor are any other noms to the best of my knowledge.
 
I don't know. I've had one candidate in a decade get one and this person was not a minority. While an athlete, I wouldn't say the person was a blue-chip nor heavily recruited. I've never heard that Supe's noms are used for minorities and/or athletes any more than any other candidates. I don't believe Supe's noms are public record -- nor are any other noms to the best of my knowledge.

You're a BGO, so I could be completely wrong on this...but I thought I had read somewhere that yes, congressional nominations at least are public record. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that somewhere, and it would make sense to me.
 
You're a BGO, so I could be completely wrong on this...but I thought I had read somewhere that yes, congressional nominations at least are public record. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that somewhere, and it would make sense to me.

I know many MOCs list those from their district who were appointed -- however, they don't indicate the appointment source which, in many cases, is not the MOC. I don't know whether they make their noms public; I'm not aware of any legal requirement to do so but there may be one.

However, please realize BGOs aren't directly involved in the nom process. And the process varies from one MOC to the next. My schools encompass 5 MOCs -- b/c private schools draw kids from several congressional districts. Add in changes with elections and it can be hard to keep up.
 
For those out there who say that, if you have an LOA, don't worry about getting a nom because, if you don't get one on your own, USNA will "find" one for you . . . I'm here to tell you that is not always true.

One of my candidates received an LOA and was medically and physicaly qualified, but did not obtain a nom. That candidate received a TWE - IOW, was turned down.

The bottom line is that, when USNA says that the LOA is conditional on YOU obtaining a nomination, they mean it. So, for those of you applying next year and who receive LOAs: (1) apply for every nom for which you're eligible, and (2) put your heart and soul into obtaining one. Your appointment could well depend on it. (Obviously, this applies equally to those w/o LOA)

One last thing . . . for those obsessed about getting/not getting an LOA . . . now you know that it's not always the golden ticket. As we BGOs keep telling you, focus on the appointment because, in the end, it's all that counts.

I have to believe that the only way to "achieve" this is to kick your Senator in the shin when you go in an interview. My guess is that there is a "story" behind this non-nomination that the candidate is neither proud of nor telling anybody.

True - you still have to get the nomination. But that should be easily done with an LOA in your hand unless you are proactive in sabotaging your own efforts with stupidity of some sort.
 
Memphis, I think the problem is that sometimes the MOC board members and staff don't entirely understand the situation, so when a candidate has an LOA, they wrongly look at it as a reason not to give them a nom, because the already have an LOA and will get a nom from the academy, and they give it to others in an effort to spread the wealth and maximize their appointments.
( We had the opposite problem, when son rcvd an appointment under a presidential nom, he called MOC to tell them he didn't need to be considered for a USNA nom (in an effort to open up a slot for other candidates) and they tried to convince him that he still needed the MOC nom to get in)
 
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