Looking for Guidance

A

Azawinsky

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2023
Messages
21
My daughter was accepted to USMAPS and visited the campus last week along with visiting USMA. She found the campus beautiful and inspiring. She also has a ROTC scholarship to Whitworth University.

West Point has been her focus since 7th grade and has done everything to get there and now is in, upon completion of the prep school. Now she is having second thoughts, thinking she wants to have a normal college life, and yes she has a boyfriend. Ultimately, she wants to be an Army officer working in intelligence. My wife and I think USMAPs is the right path.

Any recommendations how we can help her to make an informed non emotional decision? We have her working on a comparison chart between the two directions.
 
As the mom of a Mid, who went through similar contemplations (with a GF), I feel this.

A list is a good idea. I would advise her to throw out ‘the extra year with USMAPS’, and the ‘significant other’ out. Seriously. Bc the year doesn’t matter (in fact, it’s a benefit), and the BF May, or may not, be there at the end.

See what’s left on her list of pros and cons, and go from there. Make sure the leadership development, training opportunities, and alumni network are on the USMA ‘pro’ list.

She can’t go wrong with either option. They are both great opportunities, and ultimately end up in the same place upon commissioning.

BTW….my ‘22 is a memeber of the 2pct club. And is happily married, living his best life. If it’s meant to be, the relationship will make it. And this is a good test of the strength and commitment of each.
 
One of her concerns was;

lack of freedom vs normal college life
Not able to choose her courses,
clear direction from instructors
 
Azawinsky said:
Any recommendations how we can help her to make an informed non emotional decision? We have her working on a comparison chart between the two directions.
Click to expand...
As the father of two young adults — one who went USNA, the other who went AROTC — I don’t think there’s such a thing as a “non-emotional decision.” 😉

You’ve answered the most important thing, which is that her ultimate goal is to become a commissioned officer. The second thing is how she wants to get there. It’s not unusual for SA aspirants to get cold feet. It’s a daunting prospect, especially when all your friends are talking about the civilian college experience. You can feel like an outcast, and FOMO kicks in.

It can help to think about “what’s the worst that can happen?” At USMAPS and USMA, the worst is that you decide the fit is wrong and you want a civilian experience. You can do that up to the start of junior year, with no obligation or restitution. At civilian college, the worst is that you decide the fit is wrong and you want an SA experience. Now you have to go through the whole application and nomination process again. And just because you got the golden ticket before doesn’t mean you’ll get it again. Or you may get a direct ticket because your credentials are maybe better now.

Hard to say which is better. Very personal decision. If two young people are truly committed to each other, then being apart and pursuing individual dreams is a good test of that. Hard for a young person to understand, of course. Adult decisions are tough.
 
MidCakePa said:
Hard to say which is better. Very personal decision. If two young people are truly committed to each other, then being apart and pursuing individual dreams is a good test of that. Hard for a young person to understand, of course. Adult decisions are tough.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine who is a retired office; said the BF needs to be flexible and work around her and let her go to USMAPS/USMA as he said that he would go to USMAPs. Maybe he goes to a school nearby as ROTC
 
Azawinsky said:
A friend of mine who is a retired office; said the BF needs to be flexible and work around her and let her go to USMAPS/USMA as he said that he would go to USMAPs. Maybe he goes to a school nearby as ROTC
Click to expand...
They BOTH need to realize, that through natural growth, development and change that occurs with EVERY newly minted adult, the ODDS of them staying together are low.

I say that as a wife of 35 yrs, that married her HS sweetheart, and spent some years apart after marriage finishing up college stuff. And the mom of a 2pct clubber who is now married. And they also spent their 4 yrs 1k miles apart while doing their college years.

So, while the odds are low, it happens if it’s supposed to. My Mid came home every break to spend time with his GF. And with factime, etc, it’s doable. Both your DD and her BF will be busy. Quality beats quantity. Blah blah blah.

Search here on the forums about BF/GF’s. If they don’t stay together? Will either one regret their choice?

@MidCakePa has a child a product of each: a SA and a ROTC. And deals with new adults en masse on a daily basis. He has a good perspective on this.

But yes. A tough decision. Hopefully she makes an unemotional choice.
 
Azawinsky said:
One of her concerns was;

lack of freedom vs normal college life
Not able to choose her courses,
clear direction from instructors
Click to expand...
Sensible concerns and touch decisions. Hope she can follow her true instinct for a successful career choice.
 
justdoit19 said:
@MidCakePa has a child a product of each: a SA and a ROTC. And deals with new adults en masse on a daily basis. He has a good perspective on this.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the reinforcement, @justdoit19. 😉

To put into full context: My day job is teaching at our flagship state university. I regularly see students who were 100% sure of their major when they arrived — only to change their mind once, twice, even three times. Now replace major with roommate, best friend, girlfriend or boyfriend. Those also seem to change as the student learns more about themselves and others. Some might call this being fickle. I call it growing pains — simply figuring things out as they gain wisdom, experience and perspective. However we describe it, it’s clear that young adults change their minds — a lot!

Hence at SAs, we have the 2% club. And if we believe that civilian colleges are kinder to young couples, maybe they have the 4% or 6% club. That’s a vast improvement over SAs, but still woefully low. And of course, we have so-called Black Friday, the day after freshman year Thanksgiving, when so many high-school romances come to an end.
 
Last edited:
A few thoughts. MAPS is a year -- a year to figure out if a full-in military lifestyle is what she wants. If she still wants the civilian life at the end of that time, she can leave MAPS and attend a civilian college. The converse is MUCH less likely.

She doesn't have to give up her BF to attend MAPS. She might not have as much time with him as she would if he attended the same college but . . . very few h.s. relationships survive any college. Some do even at SAs (a classmate is still married to his h.s. sweetheart more than 40 years later!).

What does she want about "normal college life?" I'm not minimizing that concern b/c IMHO it's valid. If she really wants her own apt, the ability to choose roommates, to party on WEs and weekdays, to take 5 or 6 years to graduate . . . that she definitely won't get at USMA. However, Whitworth (if it's the Christian college in Washington) also likely won't be "normal college" the way that, say the Univ. of Washington would be. That may not be a bad thing, but something to consider.

As for choosing courses, MAPS and the first year of USMA will be somewhat limited. After that, there will be a lot more freedom, although not as much as the Univ. of Washington. One of the reasons I chose USNA is that it "forced" me to take hard math & science courses, which definitely were out of my comfort zone. One of the smarter decisions I made as a "yoot." Lots of college courses are fun but ultimately useless.

Finally, I'm sure Whitworth is a great school, but it's not in the same league as USMA. A USMA degree will be much more valuable in life than a degree from almost any civilian college.

The above said, it has to be HER decision. If she's not enthusiastic now about MAPS/USMA, that enthusiasm is unlikely suddenly to appear. Becoming an adult is about making decisions -- and living with the consequences. Some of them turn out well and some don't. Some are more important than others. And some have greater lifetime ramifications. This is one of those.

You might ask USMA if she could speak with current cadets who went through MAPS. I'm sure at least some have shared her concerns. They might have good advice -- and it's advice from a peer, not the "Rents."
 
usna1985 said:
A few thoughts. MAPS is a year -- a year to figure out if a full-in military lifestyle is what she wants. If she still wants the civilian life at the end of that time, she can leave MAPS and attend a civilian college. The converse is MUCH less likely.
Click to expand...

She wants to be an officer in the army period and ultimately work in intelligence.


She was at West Point last week and toured with the Cadets and spoke with folks from USMAPS as well. She was enamored with the campus and blown away by the history. She had a good time and the wife said she definitely fits in. Spoke with Lt Col Rance from admissions who explained MAPS and WP. Prepsters told her go for it, MAPS was the best thing they ever did.

She hasn't made up her mind and she did indicate that no matter her decision she will be all in. That is her mindset...
 
justdoit19 said:
I always throw this one in for parents, too. Let THEM decide. So they cannot blame you for any of the outcomes.

Not saying you aren’t, but it’s a good reminder.
Click to expand...

100 Percent.

its her decision but my goal is to give her as much data as she needs to make that choice. I will support her no matter what.
 
There were moments at USNA when I wished I'd been able to experience civilian college life. Then I reunited with my h.s. classmates. I'd seen and done and experienced SO MUCH MORE than they could even imagine. Later, I experienced civilian grad school life and . . . it was just ok. Realized I hadn't missed anything and wouldn't have traded my USNA time.

But SAs are definitely not for everyone and deciding you don't want to attend is a perfectly fine outcome.
 
So we made some serious progress last night she. We white boarded the comparison between the ROTC School and USMA and when finished she said it while it made the decision harder it helps a lot.

We also talked about the boyfriend; she understands that there is a low chance they will stay together, but he plans to reapply to USMA next year after getting surgery on his knee. He was disqualified due to a torn acl, but the rest of his application was very very solid and very likely would have been accepted. I offered to help him through the process next year and the ROTC scholarship as a secondary. He is a good kid and dad (me) approves of him.

So will let everyone know and i really appreciate all of the feedback here. I printed many of the comments and shared them with her and it was very very insightful for her.
 
Azawinsky said:
Prepsters told her go for it, MAPS was the best thing they ever did.
Click to expand...

Great post from '85; hit all the key points. All I can add is that I don't know anybody who regretted their time at NAPS or USNA -- I can unequivocally say that NAPS was among the best things that ever happened to me. (I've posted the details several times). As somebody posted above -- you can always leave MAPS/USMA (at least until 2nd class year), but if you pass up MAPS now, you are likely giving up the USMA path to commissioning.

One other thing ... nobody will ever say that MAPS/USMA is a "normal" college experience, but what is normal. There is certain to be some unique opportunities -- some will be great, some may even suck, but those bad times tend to fade deep in the memory over years, and you remember the good -- making great friends (and even when you don't know someone while at the SA, but meet years later, you have a common bond and instant friends), and activities. No, you can't party every night--- but I can still remember some epic good times .
 
Azawinsky said:
She wants to be an officer in the army period and ultimately work in intelligence.


She was at West Point last week and toured with the Cadets and spoke with folks from USMAPS as well. She was enamored with the campus and blown away by the history. She had a good time and the wife said she definitely fits in. Spoke with Lt Col Rance from admissions who explained MAPS and WP. Prepsters told her go for it, MAPS was the best thing they ever did.

She hasn't made up her mind and she did indicate that no matter her decision she will be all in. That is her mindset...
Click to expand...
"Prepsters told her go for it, MAPS was the best thing they ever did."
Best advice she could ever receive! GO FOR IT!
 
A year at USMAPS will be a valuable year for her whatever path she chooses to take going forward. ROTC is a fine choice but it is not USMA! Leadership is the number one thing she will learn at USMA!
 
well both of mine who went thru prep schools would say that her concerns are valid. They both really missed or are missing that regular college experience. One is still suffering one is a proud SA grad now.

Why not it’s just about the best time of life that a young person can have four years at a nice civilian college..

I gave advice in enlisted forums for years and when some enlistment age kid would ask how to get the parents to support their decision to enlist my advice was to not even try.

It’s after all not their time to serve, they won’t be going on deployments, and they won’t be doing any of the of bad stuff or good or anything else . It’s your decision make it yourself.

Now my advice if she was at prep school already——-absolutely refuse to bend don’t make coming home easy if they want to quit, do everything you can to make quitting hard.

It is after all a decision they made and an enlistment they made and a commitment to country they made.

But if you have to convince them to attend prep when they don’t want to?

you can and should explain the down side——you will be paying for civilian school. You will miss out maybe maybe not on a great career.

But you should join the military?——-not a parents call to make.

Nor should it be. It’s not the parents doing the work, giving up other things or taking the risk inherent in joining the military.
 
So she appears to have made her decision.

USMAPS 2024>>>> USMA 2028

She knows its a better school and better path for her career. The girl is a natural leader and this will make her that much better.
After hearing this her mom told her well while you are at MAPS dad will let you go with him to Dublin or England the next time he travels there for business or Hawaii. She said Dublin for sure.

Thank you everyone for all your help.

The picture is her and her good friend last summer at the Naval JROTC leadership school in Astoria OR.

**DELETED**
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top