Marijuana Second Hand Smoke

[Parent of 4]

If it was my DS I would ask a very simple question; is it worth risking everything you’ve worked so hard to achieve? No matter how small the risk may be it has to be acknowledged and then a risk/reward decision made.

It may not seem fair but these are not “normal” high school students and must act accordingly.

 

[QA1517]

A study in Canada, published in 2017 by the University of Calgary, showed that THC can appear in the blood/tissues of a person exposed to secondary smoke for upwards of 4 hours after exposure. They also showed in extreme cases (heavy smoking in a poorly ventilated room, total exposure for several hours) could show positive THC in the blood/tissues upwards of 24-48 hours.

Not weeks.

If you really want to read the study, it's on the Canadian Medical Association Journal Open which you can search for and find.

The bottom line? Be smart. It would appear to me, from reading the entire study, that a "positive urinalysis" in the military for THC would NOT occur from second-hand exposure as the levels reported, in nanograms, was below the level I remember from the many court-martials I sat upon as a member. Still...that being said, would you want a security clearance investigator to hear the words: "Oh...XXXX...she/he used to always hang out with the group, at school, the park, at concerts...and there was weed...oh yeah...but I don't "think" he/she used it..." It is VERY common in the high schools today (I know, I teach in HS) but there are times and places to be and to avoid.

In the end...honestly, as the outside observer looking in: let her decide. No pressure from you, as hard as that may be; but let her make the call.

It's a part of growing up and being responsible.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

I did some research on this for work and read the report above, the standard employment screening drug test will not pick up second hand smoke, even immediately after exposure.

 

[Jcleppe]

It always surprises me that the overwhelming theme on this board is that "These applicants should take control and complete all the applications themselves, they should be the ones that figure it out, make the contacts and solve the issues, if not then you're a Helicopter Parent". But when it comes to the same young person making a decision like this, we must all step in and shut it down.

Both my sons made it through 4 years of college and ROTC while being in a Fraternity, need I say more. I trusted that both of them would make the smart decisions when tested and they're both commissioned and serving. Between them they have been to a huge electronic music festival in Seoul, spent 5 days in Hanoi, been to Amsterdam and all over Europe, a month in Latvia, concerts and festivals all without parental supervision.

If you trust your young adult to make good choices then great, if you don't, well, there's not much you can say since they are soon to leave the nest.

Sounds like a great concert and a fun time, and this won't be the last one.

 

[bookreader]

The OP was not worried about her child's actions at the concert but rather that she'd be around people who would be smoking dope. And she was concerned that it would get in her lungs from breathing it in (since the smoke would be in the air) and worried that this would show up in an army physical.

 

[Jcleppe]

The OP was not worried about her child's actions at the concert but rather that she'd be around people who would be smoking dope. And she was concerned that it would get in her lungs from breathing it in (since the smoke would be in the air) and worried that this would show up in an army physical.

Couldn't agree more with the concern she has. My response was not directed to the OP, it's clear that she has great trust in her daughter.

 

[Day-Tripper]

DD is incoming Plebe to West Point and before receiving her appt. we purchased her tickets to Firefly- a 4 day concert that she has wanted to go to for years but there was always something preventing her from going like Girls State, sports, mom/dads fears. Concert is two weeks before R-day. She really wants to go but is concerned others around her smoking marijuana will have her come up hot in a test. She is a serious athlete and straight as an arrow but she cannot control what others do around her. I have tried to research second hand smoke and different studies produced different results. I guess I am looking for any references to something like this happening. I would hate for 4 days of fun and someones poor choices to destroy her dreams. This was going to be her big reward before signing the next 9 years away to Uncle Sam. Advice?

Unless the folks around her grab your DD, hold her down, blow shotguns of California sensimilia into her lungs for an hour straight, and then test her for cannabis an hour later, I will bet my medical degree* that she won't test positive.






* = not an actual doctor.

 

[conrack]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

 

[KYparent]

This has my curiosity piqued. Now that pot is legal in several states, how does the military handle positive tests for pot for folks over 21? Is it still forbidden everywhere, regardless?

 

[Nemo567]

This has my curiosity piqued. Now that pot is legal in several states, how does the military handle positive tests for pot for folks over 21? Is it still forbidden everywhere, regardless?

Yes, it is still illegal under federal law.

 

[jaglvr]

federal law would still trump the state law because DEA has not reclassified it

 

[OldRetSWO]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

 

[KPEngineer]

Senior year at USMMA I went to a soundgarden concert the night before my scheduled drug test. It never crossed my mind until we entered the smallish venue and I was greeted with a wave of an odd smelling smoke. Oh crap I thought, I’m screwed.

Less than 12 hours later I was in the lab for the test. I told the tech about the concert and asked about second hand exposure. She echoed conrack and said she’d never heard of it actually happening and was fairly certain it was a myth.

End result ... I passed.

 

[Humey]

federal law would still trump the state law because DEA has not reclassified it

Not in California and not talking about drugs

 

[Humey]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

Sure but when the second hand smoke case came up, how long after inhaling were they tested. I have to imagine it wasnt days, weeks or months later

 

[OldRetSWO]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

Sure but when the second hand smoke case came up, how long after inhaling were they tested. I have to imagine it wasnt days, weeks or months later

The military test supposedly can detect up to a month after having smoked. Not sure on Secondhand and the studies did not address that. In any case, a "hair test" can detect things a lot longer.

 

[Humey]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

Sure but when the second hand smoke case came up, how long after inhaling were they tested. I have to imagine it wasnt days, weeks or months later

The military test supposedly can detect up to a month after having smoked. Not sure on Secondhand and the studies did not address that. In any case, a "hair test" can detect things a lot longer.

I dont doubt what you are saying, but athletes have been doping for the last 40 years (at least) and have been able to get away with lots of things. I realize that have access to other items that mask the drug use and I also realize that current test methods are superior to anything we have had in the last 10 years. My point isnt to say they should smoke or even get next to second hand smoke, just that no one is all knowing at this point

 

[CrewDad]

Use of drugs smoking pot and alcohol is widely available and practiced at all colleges, at the Ivies to State college dorms and more freely available in off campus housing.

ROTC Cadets must mix with all type of students not regulated under the Federal Law. My DS noticed first hand of students smoking pot and drugs in public areas of student dorm where second hand smoke was constantly present. This was during his visits to few top civilian colleges, no names mentioned here, and this was a big turn off. But you cannot turn off the culture within. So you must be wise not to participate while careful not to interfere. It is a difficult line to maintain when you’re so concerned to stay straight and not be influenced and want to avoid second hand smoke.

However, unlike the Academy you are in many ways obliged to tolerate others who don’t care about others at civilian colleges. Even though some states are pot free, as a Cadet it is illegal under Federal Law to participate. This is a risk your sons and daughters have to self manage attending civilian schools.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

Sure but when the second hand smoke case came up, how long after inhaling were they tested. I have to imagine it wasnt days, weeks or months later

The military test supposedly can detect up to a month after having smoked. Not sure on Secondhand and the studies did not address that. In any case, a "hair test" can detect things a lot longer.

I dont doubt what you are saying, but athletes have been doping for the last 40 years (at least) and have been able to get away with lots of things. I realize that have access to other items that mask the drug use and I also realize that current test methods are superior to anything we have had in the last 10 years. My point isnt to say they should smoke or even get next to second hand smoke, just that no one is all knowing at this point

What does athletic doping have to do with Marijuana and Cocaine, etc. Each drug leaves the body at different rates. Do steroids and marijuana reach undectable levels at the same time/rate? I doubt it.

 

[Humey]

Medical professional for 30 years, I know of no situation of a person turning up positive on a drug test due to exposure by second hand smoke. Many caught in a positive test try to claim that but aint so.

Yet, I have served on USN administrative discharge boards where legitimate medical studies regarding second hand marijuana smoke were brought up as evidence and established very well that second hand marijuana smoke CAN cause a non-smoker to "pop positive" on the test that is employed by the US Military. As I recall, the examples were somewhat extreme (inside a sealed car with smokers) but it was clear that secondhand smoke can be enough to cause a hit on the test.
.
And to the other point about it being legal in some places - good luck with that as federal law requires drug tests and termination in a number of industries/jobs.
Aerospace industry and transportation manufacturing are two of them with zero tolerance.

Sure but when the second hand smoke case came up, how long after inhaling were they tested. I have to imagine it wasnt days, weeks or months later

The military test supposedly can detect up to a month after having smoked. Not sure on Secondhand and the studies did not address that. In any case, a "hair test" can detect things a lot longer.

I dont doubt what you are saying, but athletes have been doping for the last 40 years (at least) and have been able to get away with lots of things. I realize that have access to other items that mask the drug use and I also realize that current test methods are superior to anything we have had in the last 10 years. My point isnt to say they should smoke or even get next to second hand smoke, just that no one is all knowing at this point

What does athletic doping have to do with Marijuana and Cocaine, etc. Each drug leaves the body at different rates. Do steroids and marijuana reach undectable levels at the same time/rate? I doubt it.

My point was that the tests arent infallable in either direction. I feel like some people are making it seem like any infinitesimal amount of second hand smoke inhaled can be detected at some later date. As for what they have to do with each other, well illegal substances and testing.

 

[flieger83]

Well...if you really want to learn about this topic...

The bottom line is that the subjects of this test in the worst case scored around 50ng per deciliter...most were far below that. If memory serves, the military cutoff when I sat on court martials was around 150ng so none of the subjects of this experiment would have come up positive.

Still, if it's a concern...then just choose not to be there.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83