Marketing vs. admissions supoort

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lipton_hot_tea

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Why does USMA seem to put so much into marketing but from my experience the support for applicants is beyond terrible?
Thr admissions line had no voice mail option even after calling many times on different days. A human never answers and there was no way to leave a voicemail.
The officer listed on our area of the admissions page gave me incorrect info which set me on a wild goose chase because he told me the documents I turned in were not received. Emails I sent to him for followup were returned weeks later, after the deadline, by another person.
Eventually ds contacted someone from his nomination board who was also a contact for WP, who was very demeaning, I heard the conversation on speaker phone. There isn't anyone listed to escalate a problem like that too. Again the admissions line is useless.

During all of these I'm getting a ton of notifications of social media events about what WP has to offer, presentations, things like that.
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
Why does USMA seem to put so much into marketing but from my experience the support for applicants is beyond terrible?
Thr admissions line had no voice mail option even after calling many times on different days. A human never answers and there was no way to leave a voicemail.
The officer listed on our area of the admissions page gave me incorrect info which set me on a wild goose chase because he told me the documents I turned in were not received. Emails I sent to him for followup were returned weeks later, after the deadline, by another person.
Eventually ds contacted someone from his nomination board who was also a contact for WP, who was very demeaning, I heard the conversation on speaker phone. There isn't anyone listed to escalate a problem like that too. Again the admissions line is useless.

During all of these I'm getting a ton of notifications of social media events about what WP has to offer, presentations, things like that.
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This is just my own experience, but I personally have had (as a c/o 2025 applicant) a very positive and professional admissions experience. I called the help desk once or twice, and they were very helpful; and my regional commander was quite clear on how to proceed when I emailed him/called him. Maybe your region is more difficult to organize than others?
 
There could be so many reasons things are not going well for you, OP. Just off the top of my head, from reading your post, a few things jumped out. Firstly, marketing is a whole different thing. Just like any ‘company’. To market and draw interest, of course you wont highlight any negative...which all business/companies have. Which leads me to the next point. The Military isnt a business. It is a beauracracy. And full of all the joys that come along with that. A whole different animal. Their focuses are not the economies of scale, etc that a ’regular’ business has.

Are you emailing as a parent? Requesting info, sending in documents, gathering info, leaving VM’s, etc as a parent? That could be part of it, too. You are not the candidate. Admissions is busy, super busy. And deals with candidates, not parents. I’m pretty certain that returning jimmy/julies moms phone call isnt high on their priority list this time of year, if at all.

Lastly, resorting to having his nom source contact WP admissions, imo, is demeaning to admissions. At the very least, its not going to sit well with the admissions person on the other end. Perhaps all this parental emailing, VM’s, and contacting by MOC staff, is leaving a bad taste in their mouths. Maybe the file has been flagged. Maybe its a ‘more help with honey’ kind of thing. I have no idea, but not knowing the interactions, from your post, that is the reaction I had.

One cannot flag an entire organization based upon one unique experience. But I’m certain, that wanting to escalate this to ‘x’s superior’ is not going to sit well, or get your son more help. Also, this is their most busy time of the year, during a pandemic, less that idea situations working perhaps remotely, or at least in part. They are working their tails off, to meet deadlines, etc. Personally, I want to send them sub sandwiches and cookies. They have families and lives, too, but I’m sure they are working overtime to meet deadlines, etc, in this super busy admissions time.

SA’s have been at this a VERY long time. They are VERY good at putting together the class that THEY want. Nothing will be left untouched, unreviewed, or ‘fallen through the cracks’. They operate on their own timeline, and in due time, everything will be worked through. I know this is frustrating, but one has to be patient and trust the process. As long as your son has done what is asked of him, he will be good.
 
The MOC committee person was also listed as the point of contact in his WP portal.
IMO that is another bad point if me contacting them left a bad taste in their mouth or they saw it as a extra thing outside of their responsibilities. The initial contact was to me from WP. It was automated I'm sure, but it still was initiated by them.
 
"The officer listed on our area of the admissions page gave me incorrect info..."
"Emails I sent him for followup were returned weeks later..."

The biggest issue I see here is that you're not the candidate, your DS is.

As for the person from the nomination board being demeaning, I submit that it may be a matter of perception. Most civilians would think that many interactions in the military or in politics would seem demeaning when in actuality, that's just the way things are when you're at an entry-level position. It doesn't make it right or fair, but they may not be all that interested in that when they have so much else on their plates.
 
You are the parent. To be clear, the admissions team does not work with you. They only want to hear from the applicant. They will actually make a note in the file of an applicant whose parent is overly engaged because it projects that the parent may be more interested in admissions to USMA than the applicant.

So, feel free to advise your child in the application process, even advise him or her on how to approach the complex situation--who to call, what questions might be answered going through which channel, etc. However, please, stop reaching out to the admissions team.

Also, remember that although you see applicants receiving appointments on this page and you may feel that your child is being left behind, the class will continue to build through around 1 May. March and April can feel like forever. It is important to keep faith and help your child make a great plan--even pay that deposit if you do not hear by the deadline. Enjoy these days with your high school senior, next year will be completely different.

(Does anyone else feel as if this thread might be written by someone who is trolling our good will?)
 
I'm not being flippant but I was contacting them in response to their contact to me. It was initiated by them. I was not contacting them about my kid's part in the application process.
No matter who was trying to get in touch with them though if it was me or someone else, it though it doesn't change how it was.

I've been around cadet programs which I realize are not the military but they can seem harsh to an outsider. This person was over the top demeaning.
 
If you haven’t done so already buy the “West Point Candidate Handbook” and give it to your DS. This will guide them through the entire process. It’s important for the candidate to find all the right contacts and establish the relationships that can assist throughout the long arduous admissions process.

My opinion is that a parent should have no interaction with anyone throughout the process. A parent’s only interaction should be coaching and offering support to DS/DD along the way.
 
The admissions office should not send emails to people they don't want to work with then? Seriously that is ridiculous. What they wrote in the email was just the opposite of that though. Actually contacting them and getting the info I needed was where the difficulty was. At the same time I was getting tons of social media marketing events.
 
You are right. I cannot imagine which document they wanted from a parent. Did you have to email it in or was it uploaded into the portal? How did they get your contact information?
 
I am not positive about this, but I believe the initial “marketing” emails my daughter received were from her ACT profile. Is it possible your child used your email address as their own on anything similar to that? Or was the marketing email you received specifically addressed to parents who may be interested in their kids attending an academy.
I am in no way trying to be disrespectful. I was speaking to a friend last night whose daughter is applying to civilian colleges and my friend mentioned all of the scholarship opportunity emails are coming to her because of her daughter using mom’s email address instead of her own.
My DD was recently appointed and I haven’t received an email or any direct contact from MOC, FFR, DoDMERB, admissions representatives or anyone else for that matter (nor would I expect to) besides the person who COPIED me on communication directly to her regarding fingerprints and security clearance.
 
My ds entered it his portal I think? They wanted his high school information. What I had in the email was a link to a website with some questions and then a place to upload it. That was the issue I was needing help with, the upload.
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
My ds entered it his portal I think? They wanted his high school information. What I had in the email was a link to a website with some questions and then a place to upload it. That was the issue I was needing help with, the upload.
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You should have forwarded the email to your DS and let him do it. Did the info at the link address the applicant or parent?

I was not involved with my son’s application at all for USNA so I am not familiar with this. Other than driving him to interviews or doctor’s appointments, proofing his essays, or answering questions he had (Why ask me, I’m not as smart!).

All school info was sent by the school or my son.

The only contact I had with USNA was talking to admissions at CVW about colorblindness.

It seems to me your stress level would be much lower if you had less involvement. And trust me - I understand the stress waiting for a waiver. I also understand wanting to help our kids. :)
 
lipton_hot_tea said:
My ds entered it his portal I think? They wanted his high school information. What I had in the email was a link to a website with some questions and then a place to upload it. That was the issue I was needing help with, the upload.
Click to expand...
As @A1Janitor mentions below, I too very much understand trying to help our kids and the stress of waiting on a waiver. I was mainly trying to help sort out why you’d be receiving the emails directly. Had my friend and I not been having a similar conversation last night, I may not have even thought about it. Good luck to you both as you navigate the process!
 
Are other colleges different? I have been involved in WP admissions over 20 years. There are certain areas they could improve. At the same time, why should they change what they do if kids are still interested in West Point and qualities of appointments cadets are good as ever. The admissions process is designed to appoint cadets, not necessarily ensure high interaction satisfaction for applicants and their family members. I do agree that the admissions office could improve how they communicate, but that’s almost impossible as they need more people. A typical regional commander is responsible for several states, give or take about 3000 applicants; have two civilian technicians, and a diversity outreach officer. Not all applicant calls, but if we do one call per candidates, that’s 3000 calls. Field Force Representatives are hit or miss as some are good and some are not.
 
So, it appears you are homeschooling and received a request for information about uploading homeschool information (that for everyone else would be managed by the school, not the parent.) Try uploading again by opening the link in Internet Explorer rather than Chrome. Also, don't reach out to the regional admissions officer, try the regional technical person.
 
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