Math Classes

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Deovolente

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Oct 23, 2019
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Hello to everybody reading this, I was curious on what you guys would do in my situation...
I have taken geometry, algebra 2 and am just finishing my first semester in pre-calc. I am taking college classes next semester (semester 2 of sophomore year) and I will be doing college algebra to start. My counselor suggested no longer continuing in pre-calc as college algebra will be more advanced anyway however I am unsure if I want to continue pre-calc. Basically my 2 options are: doing college algebra and pre-calc, or just doing college algebra. Starting next semester I will be working my way up the college classes so I will do college trig, pre-calc, calc and everything else that I can do (each college course is only one semester in length so I can get trig and pre-calc done in the same year).
Thank you for any responses and feedback.
 
Same thing happened to me!
When I took college algebra as a HS student, it was a more in depth version of algebra 2 (logs, hyperbolas, series, sequences, inequalities, etc), and some basic algebra 2 review. Not sure if your school offers this, but sometimes colleges have a 5 or 6 unit class called Precalculus-trig (covers both topics). If your school offers that, I would say take that because it really helped me get prepared for college calc and stats. The stuff I learned in precalc was definitely useful, and my friends who didn't take the precalc class had trouble later on, while I didn't. It definitely matters on the school and professor though!
Also, make sure to check ratemyprofessor.com before committing to a class!

Good luck!
 
zoesmith said:
Same thing happened to me!
When I took college algebra as a HS student, it was a more in depth version of algebra 2 (logs, hyperbolas, series, sequences, inequalities, etc), and some basic algebra 2 review. Not sure if your school offers this, but sometimes colleges have a 5 or 6 unit class called Precalculus-trig (covers both topics). If your school offers that, I would say take that because it really helped me get prepared for college calc and stats. The stuff I learned in precalc was definitely useful, and my friends who didn't take the precalc class had trouble later on, while I didn't. It definitely matters on the school and professor though!
Also, make sure to check ratemyprofessor.com before committing to a class!

Good luck!
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So would you recommend sticking with precalc while doing college algebra?
 
Personally, I would say just do algebra, so you can focus on understanding the units and curriculum better. USAFA looks for a strong foundation in algebra, trig, geometry, and pre-calc, so it's better to master one math topic before moving on and overwhelming yourself trying to cram in multiple math classes.
College algebra really helped me in college precalc (I didn't take HS precalc but took algebra 2 in HS), and taught me basic skills I needed to move forward. If this was me, I would just stick to college algebra since it would provide you with a solid foundation for future classes.
Granted, I know myself and know I won't be able to handle 2 college math classes at my first semester at college. So you definitely have to evaluate yourself and see if you can handle the rigor 2 pretty tough college classes. You can also do summer semesters to get even more ahead and move up math classes at a faster pace.

Hopefully this was some help. Feel free to reach out since I'm a HS student in college too :)

Admission USAFA website for more info: https://www.academyadmissions.com/requirements/academic/
 
Why not do pre-calc and then Calculus? I thought College "Algebra" was pre-calc. Engineering type students don't take College Algebra.
 
bopper said:
Why not do pre-calc and then Calculus? I thought College "Algebra" was pre-calc. Engineering type students don't take College Algebra.
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My college algebra had both. My college does it this way:
1. College algebra (5.5 unit algebra and precalc)
2. College precalc and trig (6 unit precalc and trig)
3. College calculus (3-4 units)

My friends who skipped over college algebra had a lot of trouble catching up in precalc (they took algebra 2 and then went right into precalc/trig). There's a weird gap between HS algebra 2 (and even HS pre calc) and college pre calc that college algebra helped fill. The class provides you with knowledge you need to move onto higher classes, like precalc, calc, and stats. Plus, I would rather be really prepared and understand the topics better, even if it means taking an extra class.
But if you feel comfortable with algebra 2 and some HS pre calc, you can probably skip over college algebra and go into college precalc. Everyone's experience is different, so contacting the professor and asking what'll be in their class is a good idea, so you can see if you actually need the class.
 
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Unless your ALO or someone else from admissions advises otherwise, I believe you should take the pre-requisite courses that will lead to taking Calculus or higher as a college freshman. If either path leads to that end, it's probably best to choose the more rigorous path.

I assume USAFA is similar to USMA in that they expect most cadets to take Calculus as a plebe.
 
I really wish that in threads like this, the posters giving advice would remind others if they were fellow applicants in High School, Currently in college, parent of a candidate, current Service Academy cadet/Mid, etc. Where the advice giver sits certainly could be a factor in what they understand about (in this case) Math at a Service Academy.
 
Grad (and physics/math double major) here -

If you have good college courses available to you, I would say just take them. In my case, the "college" options available to me were lower level than my high school pre-calc/AP calculus classes. That is, the quality of the teachers and depth of the courses offered by the local college were lower than what I had available in high school.

If you take college algebra next semester, that means you can take trig and pre-calc junior year, and then calculus 1 and 2 senior year. That would put you on an excellent path not only for your application, but for your time at USAFA (or any other college). If you can learn calculus before college, it will lighten your load by allowing you to validate (or transfer credits if not at USAFA), which could allow a double major or just more free time to focus on other classes. If you really enjoy math and plan to do a very technical major, it might even be worth looking into taking pre-calc and trig simultaneously, as they are substantially different and don't really build on each other (I took trig as a night class at my high school the same semester as pre-calc because there were enough students that needed it, but couldn't fit it in our schedules any other way).

The important thing is to not just take the classes, but to UNDERSTAND them. It is surprisingly easy to get an A in a high school math class and still not really grasp what is going on. If you can take college classes and learn the material while still in high school do it. The only value I see in continuing in high school math is if you have doubts about the quality of the college class.
 
Grad (and physics/math double major) here
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Double major at USAFA?
That's pretty impressive to me!

I just finished Calc 2 and a few other gen ed courses this past semester as a high school senior, but I didn't know you could double major at USAFA.
 
Physics and Math are pretty common double majors at STEM Programs. They’re close cousins. Likewise: Aeronautics and Mechanical, Economics and Math, Computer Science and Electrical Engineering also have been done. They require both your personal passion and time to be successful.
 
USAFA10s said:
Grad (and physics/math double major) here -

If you have good college courses available to you, I would say just take them. In my case, the "college" options available to me were lower level than my high school pre-calc/AP calculus classes. That is, the quality of the teachers and depth of the courses offered by the local college were lower than what I had available in high school.

If you take college algebra next semester, that means you can take trig and pre-calc junior year, and then calculus 1 and 2 senior year. That would put you on an excellent path not only for your application, but for your time at USAFA (or any other college). If you can learn calculus before college, it will lighten your load by allowing you to validate (or transfer credits if not at USAFA), which could allow a double major or just more free time to focus on other classes. If you really enjoy math and plan to do a very technical major, it might even be worth looking into taking pre-calc and trig simultaneously, as they are substantially different and don't really build on each other (I took trig as a night class at my high school the same semester as pre-calc because there were enough students that needed it, but couldn't fit it in our schedules any other way).

The important thing is to not just take the classes, but to UNDERSTAND them. It is surprisingly easy to get an A in a high school math class and still not really grasp what is going on. If you can take college classes and learn the material while still in high school do it. The only value I see in continuing in high school math is if you have doubts about the quality of the college class.
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Thank you for this, I completely agree on trying to understand at and not just get an A, the college classes I am taking which are at CSU global (online college) are not too long so I might actually try to do trig and pre-calc in the same semester and calc and other math classes later.

What happens if you already have the credits (if I complete all of my math classes do I have to take any math classes at USAFA)? If I go under the core curriculum and I work on taking those classes and I do get a lot of them done do I just do more advanced classes?

My plan is next semester to take College Algebra and the lowest level English (I believe 121) and depending on how comfortable I am with those classes I will do more college classes, my school pays for us to do all the college classes we want as long as we pass and I want to take advantage of that.

If college algebra and English 121 go smoothly I will probably attempt 3-4 college classes the first semester of junior year and if that works out maybe even more my second semester of junior year.
 
Deovolente said:
Thank you for this, I completely agree on trying to understand at and not just get an A, the college classes I am taking which are at CSU global (online college) are not too long so I might actually try to do trig and pre-calc in the same semester and calc and other math classes later.

What happens if you already have the credits (if I complete all of my math classes do I have to take any math classes at USAFA)? If I go under the core curriculum and I work on taking those classes and I do get a lot of them done do I just do more advanced classes?

My plan is next semester to take College Algebra and the lowest level English (I believe 121) and depending on how comfortable I am with those classes I will do more college classes, my school pays for us to do all the college classes we want as long as we pass and I want to take advantage of that.

If college algebra and English 121 go smoothly I will probably attempt 3-4 college classes the first semester of junior year and if that works out maybe even more my second semester of junior year.
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Current HS junior here-
Smart plan! Exactly what I did my semester at Middle College. One thing to note- remember that you have SAT/ACT to study for in junior year. Since you'll most likely take your first round of SAT/ACT in Aug-Dec of your junior year, make sure to not overload yourself. If possible, try to begin to study a little this year, and get familiar with the SAT/ACT curriculum. For me, I ignored the SAT/ACT until junior year, which was a huge mistake, and where I advise you to learn from me. I'm a current junior that's HS Honors US history, personal finance, college prep, college math, English, and health, and definitely had trouble balancing HS, College, extracurriculars, SATs, etc at the beginning of the year. Definetly start out with 1-2 college classes and see how it goes, if you feel you have a ton of extra time, maybe bump it up.
Also, don't forget that USAFA looks for leadership as well as character. Try to start early, get involved in the community, join CAP, etc because these activities will help you stand out.
Again, this is from what I've read, and have personally experienced. Good luck : )
 
Deovolente said:
What happens if you already have the credits (if I complete all of my math classes do I have to take any math classes at USAFA)? If I go under the core curriculum and I work on taking those classes and I do get a lot of them done do I just do more advanced classes?
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Unless things have changed - you can't just transfer credit to USAFA for technical classes, that is why I said it is really important to actually understand it. You will have the chance to take tests to validate math (and potentially some other classes) during basic. If you validate calculus 1 and 2 as well as statistics and are a NON technical major, you would be done with math (assuming you made it clear you had no plans to do a technical major and were sure about it). If you are a technical major, you would just start in higher level math classes. I validated calc 1&2 and just started in honors calc 3, a class they created for 4 degrees taking calc 3 first semester. I technically validated calc 3 as well, but chose to take the class since I was considering astro, physics and math for majors, and I felt I needed a better understanding of it.

Chemistry and physics are the other classes that a lot of cadets validate via testing. My high school physics and chemistry programs were absolute garbage, so no chance there for me, but I found chemistry very easy (I didn't take honors) and I really enjoyed honors physics (placed there because of my math scores).

I have also heard of transfer/AP credit being accepted for classes like english and history, but not in my case. I had college english credits but USAFA felt it wasn't a close enough match. It certainly made my english class super easy though.
 
From what I've seen and heard from teachers during high school, students are often better off taking AP level courses as opposed to equivalent dual enrollment/college classes. In general, the academics and environment of an AP class are more challenging, as you will be sitting in a room full of other "higher performing" students, in contrast to a room of freshman college students who are taking the class because they have to. Additionally, college credits from AP exam scores are nationally much more widely accepted by admissions departments, than college classes whose standards and content can vary between school systems/states.

That said, my high school has a particularly strong AP program, which means that almost all of our AP classes are more rigorous and out perform the equivalent course at a local college.

Everyone's situation is different, but my general advice is to take core math/english classes as APs at the high school, and then take specialized courses that you are interested in at the local college (related to whatever your passion is/thinking about majoring in at the Academy).

At the end of the day, prioritize the rigor of the course, competence of the teacher and quality of learning over whether you think you will be able to validate the course or not.


Side note: Whatever core courses the "most academically inclined" students in your school are taking is probably a good place to start. There is probably a good reason why they are taking them, and you want to be in that environment.
 
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