Maybe Norwich?

That's great news for your DD! I am sure she will excel. Has she chosen a major? I was on the faculty at USAFA and can reliably say they have a phenomenal faculty. One of the things all the academies excel at is teaching their faculty to actually teach. I know this seems somewhat counterintuitive, but through my master's and PhD I never once took a formal course in 'how to teach.' However, when I arrived at USAFA to join DFPS (Poli Sci Dept.) as a young officer, the first thing I did was take the new instructor course. It was phenomenal and I used the skills I learned in that course to inform the balance of my career as a professor. So, with an emphasis on teaching and a program for developing those skills in new instructors--along with regular, continuing development for all faculty--your DD will assuredly receive a solid education. The downside of USAFA's academic program, perhaps more than other like institutions, is that a good number of the military faculty have only a master's and some from not the best schools (there were a number of officers on faculty during my time there and since who had online master's degrees. There is nothing wrong with that, but said programs are regarded by many in the business of higher-ed as being less effective in driving personal intellectual development. From my perspective, I think online courses probably make you work harder as a grad student, as there is nowhere to hide if you did not do the reading, since you still must post to a discussion to effectively participate and earn a grade.) It is a function of 'big-Air Force's' emphasis on operational assignments and less so on educational development--though I sense this is really starting to change, as the AF is realizing this opposition to educational development (PhDs, think-tank fellowships, education with industry) has locked a number of their flag officers (generals) out of some of the more choice Joint assignments.

As an aside (meaning this is my personal editorial) that will be more consequential if your DD remains for a career and aspires to senior rank:
--When I served as a Congressional Aide in the late 2000s (2008 to 2010), handling national security/foreign affairs matters for a Member of Congress, I was almost stunned by the opinion of many Members of Congress and senior Committee staff concerning the lack of educational and intellectual development the Air Force seemed to cultivate among its generals, and that was worrisome because the Senate and House Armed Services Committees have an outsized influence on which generals are placed in particular Joint billets. In the minds of many dedicated and well-informed folks, it was as if the AF had a 'reverence for ignorance' when it came to sending their best officers to graduate school, etc. This was in conflict with the Army/Navy/Marine Corps (and even more so, the USCG) approach to sending the best back to school to prepare them for the most consequential roles. Why? Think of it this way: most of the senior White House staff, cabinet secretaries, deputies, and legislators have top-notch graduate/legal/medical degrees; those are the folks the generals and admirals have to wrangle with when it comes to the development of policy, plans, programs, and budgets. In order to earn both the respect of the other folks 'in the room' and be able to engage in professional debates and discussions on matters such as US foreign policy and its desired outcomes, one has to have the same 'tools' as the rest of the folks in that dialogue. In the world of senior national leadership, this 'union card' comes in the form a prestigious graduate degree. While it does not make it right--or even an effective Heuristic--it is the way it is. And it is the same standard our adversaries apply to the issue. Many, if not most, foreign diplomats and senior defense staff have either an American, German, or British graduate degree. So, all of this is a long-winded way of pointing out why that approach is important--and the AF is finally coming to understand that fact, too. Ok, enough of that. (my apologies)

On the positive side of the ledger, many of those same instructors who don't have the most prestigious degrees instead have tremendous practical experience in their field that is of equal value. So, for what it is worth, simply know that going into it. It is a minor matter, but certainly nothing that will deprive her of a quality education; USAFA is still far ahead of most state institutions in the education it provides--and as I remind certain pugnacious members of my faculty at the college where I am president, "a PhD does not mean everything...it is only proof of your research skills and not your teaching abilities." Your best faculty are always your best PEOPLE, not necessarily your best academics. So, take it all with a grain of salt. Like I wrote at the outset, USAFA's faculty is phenomenal. While USMA, USNA, USCGA, Norwich, VMI tend to have more PhDs from top-line programs, that isn't the whole story. USAFA has plenty of academic-superstar PhDs and researchers. But better yet, they have an extremely well developed and prepared faculty. I think, in general, USAFA's faculty is more prepared to offer the practical, nuts-and-bolts education that many college-aged students crave and a young officer can put directly to use after graduation.

Bottom-line: USAFA is a great education.

Simply some thoughts.
DD and I visited Norwich last October. She will be USAFA 2026 but here were our impressions....beautiful campus, personalized tour (she got to meet with the Head of the Civil Engineering Dept.), very generous aid, and amazingly efficient communications. Minor downsides...the remote location (for DD, but I loved it!) and DD did not like that there were civilian students on campus. She decided she wanted "all in" military and that's what she's going to ge
 
DD and I visited Norwich last October. She will be USAFA 2026 but here were our impressions....beautiful campus, personalized tour (she got to meet with the Head of the Civil Engineering Dept.), very generous aid, and amazingly efficient communications. Minor downsides...the remote location (for DD, but I loved it!) and DD did not like that there were civilian students on campus. She decided she wanted "all in" military and that's what she's going to get.

That's great news for your DD! I am sure she will excel. Has she chosen a major? I was on the faculty at USAFA and can reliably say they have a phenomenal faculty. One of the things all the academies excel at is teaching their faculty to actually teach. I know this seems somewhat counterintuitive, but through my master's and PhD I never once took a formal course in 'how to teach.' However, when I arrived at USAFA to join DFPS (Poli Sci Dept.) as a young officer, the first thing I did was take the new instructor course. It was phenomenal and I used the skills I learned in that course to inform the balance of my career as a professor. So, with an emphasis on teaching and a program for developing those skills in new instructors--along with regular, continuing development for all faculty--your DD will assuredly receive a solid education. The downside of USAFA's academic program, perhaps more than other like institutions, is that a good number of the military faculty have only a master's and some from not the best schools (there were a number of officers on faculty during my time there and since who had online master's degrees. There is nothing wrong with that, but said programs are regarded by many in the business of higher-ed as being less effective in driving personal intellectual development. From my perspective, I think online courses probably make you work harder as a grad student, as there is nowhere to hide if you did not do the reading, since you still must post to a discussion to effectively participate and earn a grade.) It is a function of 'big-Air Force's' emphasis on operational assignments and less so on educational development--though I sense this is really starting to change, as the AF is realizing this opposition to educational development (PhDs, think-tank fellowships, education with industry) has locked a number of their flag officers (generals) out of some of the more choice Joint assignments.

As an aside (meaning this is my personal editorial) that will be more consequential if your DD remains for a career and aspires to senior rank:
--When I served as a Congressional Aide in the late 2000s (2008 to 2010), handling national security/foreign affairs matters for a Member of Congress, I was almost stunned by the opinion of many Members of Congress and senior Committee staff concerning the lack of educational and intellectual development the Air Force seemed to cultivate among its generals, and that was worrisome because the Senate and House Armed Services Committees have an outsized influence on which generals are placed in particular Joint billets. In the minds of many dedicated and well-informed folks, it was as if the AF had a 'reverence for ignorance' when it came to sending their best officers to graduate school, etc. This was in conflict with the Army/Navy/Marine Corps (and even more so, the USCG) approach to sending the best back to school to prepare them for the most consequential roles. Why? Think of it this way: most of the senior White House staff, cabinet secretaries, deputies, and legislators have top-notch graduate/legal/medical degrees; those are the folks the generals and admirals have to wrangle with when it comes to the development of policy, plans, programs, and budgets. In order to earn both the respect of the other folks 'in the room' and be able to engage in professional debates and discussions on matters such as US foreign policy and its desired outcomes, one has to have the same 'tools' as the rest of the folks in that dialogue. In the world of senior national leadership, this 'union card' comes in the form a prestigious graduate degree. While it does not make it right--or even an effective Heuristic--it is the way it is. And it is the same standard our adversaries apply to the issue. Many, if not most, foreign diplomats and senior defense staff have either an American, German, or British graduate degree. So, all of this is a long-winded way of pointing out why that approach is important--and the AF is finally coming to understand that fact, too. Ok, enough of that. (my apologies)

On the positive side of the ledger, many of those same instructors who don't have the most prestigious degrees instead have tremendous practical experience in their field that is of equal value. So, for what it is worth, simply know that going into it. It is a minor matter, but certainly nothing that will deprive her of a quality education; USAFA is still far ahead of most state institutions in the education it provides--and as I remind certain pugnacious members of my faculty at the college where I am president, "a PhD does not mean everything...it is only proof of your research skills and not your teaching abilities." Your best faculty are always your best PEOPLE, not necessarily your best academics. So, take it all with a grain of salt. Like I wrote at the outset, USAFA's faculty is phenomenal. While USMA, USNA, USCGA, Norwich, VMI tend to have more PhDs from top-line programs, that isn't the whole story. USAFA has plenty of academic-superstar PhDs and researchers. But better yet, they have an extremely well developed and prepared faculty. I think, in general, USAFA's faculty is more prepared to offer the practical, nuts-and-bolts education that many college-aged students crave and a young officer can put directly to use after graduation.

Bottom-line: USAFA is a great education.

Simply some thoughts.
Thank you! That is all good to know. She was thinking civil engineering and math but is now thinking engineering chemistry and math with a possible minor in nuclear weapons (sidebar, we live in Oak Ridge, TN so that is kind of ironic, no interest in nuke anything until now). She is hoping for a career as a Combat Systems Officer. She now knows that only certain majors lead to that route. I have encouraged her to take advantage of the Majors Fair where she can talk to professors and older cadets. Her USAFA mentor here is a USAFA graduate/retired Major General and he is extremely helpful. I believe he was at NATO. She is 100% excited about being a Falcon, making AF her career, and seeing the world.
 
Thank you! That is all good to know. She was thinking civil engineering and math but is now thinking engineering chemistry and math with a possible minor in nuclear weapons (sidebar, we live in Oak Ridge, TN so that is kind of ironic, no interest in nuke anything until now). She is hoping for a career as a Combat Systems Officer. She now knows that only certain majors lead to that route. I have encouraged her to take advantage of the Majors Fair where she can talk to professors and older cadets. Her USAFA mentor here is a USAFA graduate/retired Major General and he is extremely helpful. I believe he was at NATO. She is 100% excited about being a Falcon, making AF her career, and seeing the world.
You're welcome! I hope it helps. Major will not have a great deal of influence on AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code--career field), unless she wants to do something highly technical, like developmental engineering. Honestly, the best bet is to major in something you enjoy and a field in which you will earn the highest GPA. The major fair will help a great deal with that. In any case, that is all wonderful news for her! It won't always seem fun, but when you look back you forget the tough parts.
 
Hello All,

Don't want to steal this thread but my daughter is headed to the USAFA class of 2026! So thankful for this forum over the last three years. Now my son who will be a junior next year said he wants to be an air force pilot, major in international relations/german and wrestle for a program that has a corps of cadets, and has great mountain scenery. Norwich has hit our radar for the first time since it has those things. With that said he wants to wrestle for the USAFA but that is a D1 school and he realizes he has to up his game. Would Norwich be a top choice if you were my son? Also what other schools would match this?
 
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Hello All,

Don't want to steal this thread but my daughter is headed to the USAFA class of 2026! So thankful for this forum over the last three years. Now my son who will be a junior next year said he wants to be an air force pilot, major in international relations/german and wrestle for a program that has a corps of cadets, and has great mountain scenery. Norwich has hit our radar for the first time since it has those things. With that said he wants to wrestle for the USAFA but that is a D1 school and he realizes he has to up his game. Would Norwich be a top choice if you were my son? Also what other schools would match this?

If DD hadn’t received the Foundation School for USNA , she was headed to VMI and was recruited to swim . They do have an International Relations Major , an excellent wrestling team (D1), and the entire student body is all in the Cadet Corp. They also have Air Force ROTC . We visited both Norwich and VMI, found both campuses beautiful , staff, cadets and faculty very friendly and both schools were generous with scholarships , Norwich gave a better package . Both great schools , think it was just a personal preference for our DD to commit to VMI. I would recommend visiting the campuses . We never looked at The Citadel because they didn’t have a swim team . Congratulations to your DD on USAFA and Good luck with your son!
 
If DD hadn’t received the Foundation School for USNA , she was headed to VMI and was recruited to swim . They do have an International Relations Major , an excellent wrestling team (D1), and the entire student body is all in the Cadet Corp. They also have Air Force ROTC . We visited both Norwich and VMI, found both campuses beautiful , staff, cadets and faculty very friendly and both schools were generous with scholarships , Norwich gave a better package . Both great schools , think it was just a personal preference for our DD to commit to VMI. I would recommend visiting the campuses . We never looked at The Citadel because they didn’t have a swim team . Congratulations to your DD on USAFA and Good luck with your son!
Thanks for response. We plan to visit Norwich next spring. Will probably hit the USCGA, Cornell and a few others while we are in the Northeast. The whole Corps of cadets thing is pretty unique we are finding out.
 
Thanks for response. We plan to visit Norwich next spring. Will probably hit the USCGA, Cornell and a few others while we are in the Northeast. The whole Corps of cadets thing is pretty unique we are finding out.
Cornell is beautiful , was my eldest top choice but was waitlisted . She did receive her undergrad from Fordham and loved her time there. I just looked quickly and they do have Club wrestling. The International Relations Program is very well respected with the opportunity for some amazing internship opportunities in NYC and I believe they are the only university in the area with an Air Force ROTC unit . Not sure if you are looking at schools in the NYC area , but we had an extremely positive experience with Fordham.
 
Also want to add that Norwich was extremely generous with scholarship offer and I might be wrong , but I think they will cover room if one is a recipient of an rotc scholarship. .
Yes. They call it the I.D. White Scholarship. Named after a very significant US General that commanded the 2nd Armored Division in WWII.
(He also commanded my Dad.)

General White was a Graduate of Norwich.
 
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Yes. They call it the I.D. White Scholarship. Named after a very significant US General that commanded the 2nd Armored Division in WWII.
(And my Dad.)

Graduate of Norwich.
I taught US History for a period of time and am a bit of a WW2 buff . I apologize for my ignorance regarding the scholarship named in honor of your father . Just looked him up quickly and what a distinguished and honorable career he had . You must be very proud. My Sincere gratitude for his service .
 
I taught US History for a period of time and am a bit of a WW2 buff . I apologize for my ignorance regarding the scholarship named in honor of your father . Just looked him up quickly and what a distinguished and honorable career he had . You must be very proud. My Sincere gratitude for his service .
I'm sorry, I corrected my vague description. General White commanded my Dad in WWII. Sorry.
 
That's an interesting take. I would expect a "lifetime of service in uniform" to be at least the 30 years allowed by statute for non FO/GOs. With approximately 1000 graduates per year, how would the Army handle it of ALL stayed for the lifetime of service. Can the Army handle 1000 promotions to Major each year (approx yr 12) ? Can it handle 1000 promotions to LtCol each year (approx yr 16)? What about to Col? I
daresay that the MAJORITY would be passed over at some point and if there is no voluntary attrition then the Army will be paying significant severance to the many that it will be "kicking out" to meet end strength limits as enacted in legislation. The only way to avoid this would be to slow down promotions A LOT which would result in a much more "seasoned" force as you'd be discharging many 20 year Capts/Majors every year to make room for the next generation of new 2nd Lts.
USAF pilot community wishes they had that problem.
 
Hello All,

Don't want to steal this thread but my daughter is headed to the USAFA class of 2026! So thankful for this forum over the last three years. Now my son who will be a junior next year said he wants to be an air force pilot, major in international relations/german and wrestle for a program that has a corps of cadets, and has great mountain scenery. Norwich has hit our radar for the first time since it has those things. With that said he wants to wrestle for the USAFA but that is a D1 school and he realizes he has to up his game. Would Norwich be a top choice if you were my son? Also what other schools would match this?
I visited Norwich recently, as an accepted student, I knew it was at the top of my choices over my very indecisive career here on SAF.

Anyway, doing the research of the school, leading up to my visit... All I can say is, how beautiful of a campus it is, and not just Northfield, VT itself, but the nearly 1 hr drive from BTV Airport to the campus was all beautiful, the mountains in the background, the scenery was all lovely.

They offered me a great financial aid offer, hence I decided to choose them to attend!

I have 77 days till reporting to campus, and I'm looking forward to the challenging road ahead!
 
Cornell is beautiful , was my eldest top choice but was waitlisted . She did receive her undergrad from Fordham and loved her time there. I just looked quickly and they do have Club wrestling. The International Relations Program is very well respected with the opportunity for some amazing internship opportunities in NYC and I believe they are the only university in the area with an Air Force ROTC unit . Not sure if you are looking at schools in the NYC area , but we had an extremely positive experience with Fordham.
We are just starting the process of looking. He is about to wrap of his sophomore year. He is ranked 5th in the state in wrestling and just last week advised me if he cant get on the USAFA DI team then he still wants to wrestle in college. Someplace small, scenic mountains, and a corps of cadets-in other words a college with a dedicated student body. Norwich has a D3 team I see. . The only reason we are looking in the northeast is because they take wrestling more seriously. From what I have read on here is there a more beautiful area than near Norwich? If off course that is what you like.
 
We are just starting the process of looking. He is about to wrap of his sophomore year. He is ranked 5th in the state in wrestling and just last week advised me if he cant get on the USAFA DI team then he still wants to wrestle in college. Someplace small, scenic mountains, and a corps of cadets-in other words a college with a dedicated student body. Norwich has a D3 team I see. . The only reason we are looking in the northeast is because they take wrestling more seriously. From what I have read on here is there a more beautiful area than near Norwich? If off course that is what you like.

Norwich is truly in a beautiful area , but it is definitely something a cadet would want . DD thought it was a bit too remote for her . If DS is looking for that type of campus environment , Fordham is not for him . Beautiful campus but in the middle of a very urban area in the Bronx. DD really liked VMI , beautiful campus but still near a town she could walk to and she could get to a Walmart, Target or various restaurants without a car .
 
I have 68 days till I report, and I'm freaking out lol :bounce1:
Congrats on deciding to attend Norwich...you will find it to be a real challenge. I remember in the months before I started at Norwich I was fairly confident I-- 1) knew what I was getting into; and 2) was well prepared to succeed as a Cadet, academically and militarily. My confidence was quickly shattered in the first moments of my experience as a Rook. The longest day of my life was my first day at Norwich. I will never forget it and recommend the experience to anyone who wants to stand-out as a developing leader and possesses personal character capable of withstanding the withering fire of the Norwich experience--in 'academic, military, and moral proportions.' This sense of challenge was only reinforced sometime later when classes commenced. And all of that is a good thing; anything that is worth doing is typically a challenge. My experience at Norwich--and the experience my classmates (class of 2002--this fall is my 20-year class reunion) conveyed to me--was prototypical of this paradigm. Norwich is a challenge...a serious challenge. It is not going to always be a fun place to be. But...it is perhaps one of the BEST places to be from. When you graduate Norwich, and institutions like it, you will feel like you genuinely earned something and are well-prepared for whatever challenges the world throws at you--and that is confidence gained from experience and knowledge, unlike the hubris I suffered from in the months before I started at Norwich.

So...in the 68 days you have left before your report date, what are you doing to prepare mentally, physically, and morally? While you might be freaking out now, and I appreciate what you mean by that...I'd be freaking out, too, over your four years as a Cadet at Norwich you will be molded into a leader who is calm, communicates clearly, and thinks with cogency.

Again, congratulations! You will never regret this choice (at least once you graduate you will not regret it). Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

Very respectfully,
 
Congrats on deciding to attend Norwich...you will find it to be a real challenge. I remember in the months before I started at Norwich I was fairly confident I-- 1) knew what I was getting into; and 2) was well prepared to succeed as a Cadet, academically and militarily. My confidence was quickly shattered in the first moments of my experience as a Rook. The longest day of my life was my first day at Norwich. I will never forget it and recommend the experience to anyone who wants to stand-out as a developing leader and possesses personal character capable of withstanding the withering fire of the Norwich experience--in 'academic, military, and moral proportions.' This sense of challenge was only reinforced sometime later when classes commenced. And all of that is a good thing; anything that is worth doing is typically a challenge. My experience at Norwich--and the experience my classmates (class of 2002--this fall is my 20-year class reunion) conveyed to me--was prototypical of this paradigm. Norwich is a challenge...a serious challenge. It is not going to always be a fun place to be. But...it is perhaps one of the BEST places to be from. When you graduate Norwich, and institutions like it, you will feel like you genuinely earned something and are well-prepared for whatever challenges the world throws at you--and that is confidence gained from experience and knowledge, unlike the hubris I suffered from in the months before I started at Norwich.

So...in the 68 days you have left before your report date, what are you doing to prepare mentally, physically, and morally? While you might be freaking out now, and I appreciate what you mean by that...I'd be freaking out, too, over your four years as a Cadet at Norwich you will be molded into a leader who is calm, communicates clearly, and thinks with cogency.

Again, congratulations! You will never regret this choice (at least once you graduate you will not regret it). Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.

Very respectfully,
Thank you so much!
 
If your son is looking to wrestle also consider the Coast Guard Academy. My DS is a wrestler recruited by them and will be attending NAPS this year. The CGA wrestling team and coaches are excellent and well worth your consideration.
 
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