Meanwhile back in Ukraine

The Ukrainian army has gone from being one which surrendered its Crimean peninsula to Russia without firing a shot in 2014, to one of the best land forces on earth by 2022-2023. Its economy and cities are in ruins, but the Ukrainians are not anywhere near ready to quit. Simply holding back the Russian military has morphed into a scenario where the Ukrainians might be in a position to outright defeat Putin's legions & drive the from their soil.

Russia has been in many wars over the decades and centuries but has not really lost a conflict (excepting Afghanistan, where they - like so many other foreign invaders - simply got tired and quit) since World War One. Now, they may be on the cusp of another defeat. The Russian army simply cannot go on like this forever. Their 1917-like moment may not be too far off. The Wagner Group (a shadow army, more than anything) and the Russian army may come to blows. Desertion remains a constant problem. Draft evasion is commonplace. Alcoholism is growing worse, even by Russia's relaxed standards. Officers fear their own troops & those troops fear their own officers. ,The economic woes of the country worsen every day.

The last 15 months have proven that Ukraine will never, ever again surrender their independence to being a province of Greater Russia.

Ukrainians fight without pay for the cause of their nation merely existing. They lose, their country vanishes off the map.

Russians fight for money, or to get put of prison, or out of fear of not fighting. Not a recipe for success.

The death of the Soviet Union may not have been 1991 after all. It might be later this year.
 
The point of my post was not to celebrate the the impressive successes of the Ukrainian military or to make light of the failures of the Russian military which has been routed a number of times in the past two hundred years. (I don't know where you came up with never really lost a conflict.) Rather it is to highlight a successful US military operation which has been ongoing since the invasion of Crimea.

The fact that most Americans don't know about the mission is a good thing.
 
The Ukrainian army has gone from being one which surrendered its Crimean peninsula to Russia without firing a shot in 2014, to one of the best land forces on earth by 2022-2023. Its economy and cities are in ruins, but the Ukrainians are not anywhere near ready to quit. Simply holding back the Russian military has morphed into a scenario where the Ukrainians might be in a position to outright defeat Putin's legions & drive the from their soil.

Russia has been in many wars over the decades and centuries but has not really lost a conflict (excepting Afghanistan, where they - like so many other foreign invaders - simply got tired and quit) since World War One. Now, they may be on the cusp of another defeat. The Russian army simply cannot go on like this forever. Their 1917-like moment may not be too far off. The Wagner Group (a shadow army, more than anything) and the Russian army may come to blows. Desertion remains a constant problem. Draft evasion is commonplace. Alcoholism is growing worse, even by Russia's relaxed standards. Officers fear their own troops & those troops fear their own officers. ,The economic woes of the country worsen every day.

The last 15 months have proven that Ukraine will never, ever again surrender their independence to being a province of Greater Russia.

Ukrainians fight without pay for the cause of their nation merely existing. They lose, their country vanishes off the map.

Russians fight for money, or to get put of prison, or out of fear of not fighting. Not a recipe for success.

The death of the Soviet Union may not have been 1991 after all. It might be later this year.
Remember that though the Ukrainian military have been very successful, in the end their firepower is US firepower. What you see in Ukraine the power of the US military, not the Ukrainian.
 
Remember that though the Ukrainian military have been very successful, in the end their firepower is US firepower. What you see in Ukraine the power of the US military, not the Ukrainian.
What you see in Ukraine is the bravery and the professionalism of those Ukraine spec ops units. They are the ones fighting dying and killing we are the ones rambling on an Internet forum.

Not only effective war but very cost effective.

But we saw the same thing in VN , or if you were in the jungle you would have seen the same thing,

small 4-7 man spec ops and recon teams , Army, Navy, USMC, dozens of them in the field every day, who took on large NVA units as long as they had a working radio and big guns or the wing on the receiving end of the radio. Sadly no drones.

These small US teams tracked and hounded and killed the NVA and VC in the exact same way VC and NVA sappers and scouts tracked, hounded, and killed US and SVN troops.
 
What you see in Ukraine is the bravery and the professionalism of those Ukraine spec ops units. They are the ones fighting dying and killing we are the ones rambling on an Internet forum.

Not only effective war but very cost effective.

But we saw the same thing in VN , or if you were in the jungle you would have seen the same thing,

small 4-7 man spec ops and recon teams , Army, Navy, USMC, dozens of them in the field every day, who took on large NVA units as long as they had a working radio and big guns or the wing on the receiving end of the radio. Sadly no drones.

These small US teams tracked and hounded and killed the NVA and VC in the exact same way VC and NVA sappers and scouts tracked, hounded, and killed US and SVN troops.
All true. What is the disagreement?
My point is that though they have success, that success is due to the training, weapons and billions of dollars of aid they constantly receive from other countries. Ukraine is no bastion of strength on its own.
 
All true. What is the disagreement?
My point is that though they have success, that success is due to the training, weapons and billions of dollars of aid they constantly receive from other countries. Ukraine is no bastion of strength on its own.
This article posted above is not about overall Ukraine military strength it’s about the effectiveness of their spec ops and recon teams,

And I would say their spec ops success is a direct result of their bravery and resolve and willingness to die.

Yes supplies and logistics and intel are needed and are important as they are in every war,, But if you don’t have effective operators doing the killing and risking the dying all those supples are wasted.

You want to give the credit to the US or other countries not directly involved in the fighting as your post indicates so be it.

You want to see US resolve and bravery in that fight?

Not a chance.

We would fold and run or even support Putin, as many of the closet US Putin supporters would support Putin today . if that stand were more popular,.
 
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Wagner? … it is and has always been Putin’s way of creating and keeping mayhem everywhere …

Why do we allow this? There can be no bigger “Why” than this … with the exception of any Putin supporter that has, or ever will exist among those that are supposed to hold allegiance to the U.S. under any and all circumstances …. It is a crying shame.

Btw … Crippling Wagner is long over due …

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Did you even read the article?
Of course I did.

I commented on your “The fact that most Americans don't know about the mission is a good thing.”

We don’t know a lot. We do know we are spending billions of dollars of US taxpayer money disproportionately to other countries contributions.

We should invest in a peaceful resolution.
 
Of course I did.

I commented on your “The fact that most Americans don't know about the mission is a good thing.”

We don’t know a lot. We do know we are spending billions of dollars of US taxpayer money disproportionately to other countries contributions.

We should invest in a peaceful resolution.
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Money well spent … we have gained more in 1+ year than at any time in the past 20 years gathering and augmenting our Wargaming expertise than could have been achieved otherwise …

Keep giving them what they need … we will know more, and knowledge is everything …
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Money well spent … we have gained more in 1+ year than at any time in the past 20 years gathering and augmenting our Wargaming expertise than could have been achieved otherwise …

Keep giving them what they need … we will know more, and knowledge is everything …
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You’d have thought we gained that in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not sure what we gained there either.
 
You’d have thought we gained that in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not sure what we gained there either.
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Difference is … Ukrainians are taking it to the oppressor

My brothers … half Polish, which means I’m of the same blood.
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Who was the aggressor in Iraq?
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Not going there … we did learn, and we do know … history

The information game is so much bigger than it has ever been … Eyes in the sky, Little Ears everywhere on the ground … and Big Data …
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Of course I did.

I commented on your “The fact that most Americans don't know about the mission is a good thing.”

We don’t know a lot. We do know we are spending billions of dollars of US taxpayer money disproportionately to other countries contributions.

We should invest in a peaceful resolution.
Not aimed at A1 ——-but you are now getting political talking points that will be used in the coming presidential election.

And depending on who runs and who wins you may also be seeing the logic or how we will cut the legs off the Ukraine military.

We won’t cave but we will look for peace.

We won’t cave but we will look at expenditures and the US budget and will make purely budget decisions.

To those fighting Russia I admit that will look a lot like a pro Putin cave.
 
Remember that though the Ukrainian military have been very successful, in the end their firepower is US firepower. What you see in Ukraine the power of the US military, not the Ukrainian.

Yes, US & NATO arms have aided the Ukrainians immensely. But even more lavish military support was given to countries like South Vietnam, the Shah's Iran, post-Taliban (and pre-Taliban) Afghanistan, post-Saddam Iraq, etc. over the last 60 years which were wasted on armies which didn't fight.

The Ukrainians are a breath of fresh air in that respect.
 
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