Medal of Honor winner, 90, ordered to remove flagpole

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Yet again...why in the world would they not want to allow a pole to display the American flag?

Because "they" decided "they" didn't like the flag pole. The same reason that Home Owner's associations can decide that they don't like the color of your door or house even if you do- the same reason that "they" can tell you how big your deck can be in a development or what kind of flower beds you can have, or how they can tell you that no children can live with you in the over 55 community etc... in short- because "they" can and the resident agreed to sign that covenant when he moved into the community. While it may be stupid, capriscious, or short sighted- but when you move into a community that is governed by a home owners association you agree to those stipulations. The very big downside of living in a community governed by one of these compacts.
 
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A huge downside, I agree with my fellow Keydet. I'm also very happy that the Richmond paper decided to write this article, as it will draw support for the Colonel and hopefully will encourage the HOA the back down. As Bruno mentioned, the HOA will look really bad for their pettiness in this dispute. I hope this will lead them to drop their threats of litigation and allow the Colonel to have his flagpole.
 
Sprog / Bruno, some very good posts about what is legal and what is fair. I agree with your assessments completely, and as someone who has lived in communities with HOAs, I see the downside (pretty stupid and petty issues like these) and the plus side (attempts to keep the entire community to an aesthetically pleasing standard in order to ensure property values are maintained).

As I see it, the Colonel is LEGALLY in the wrong here: he honestly wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law beyond the hope that a Judge sympathetic to a MOH recipient would find the HOA's covenants vague enough in this specific area to allow a variance for his flagpole. So, the Colonel's family did the only smart thing left for them to do. They took this to the Court of Public Opinion, making sure his story was brought to the media's attention.

Legally, the HOA is in the right here, but now they are made to look like unpatriotic and uncaring fools (and rightfully so). My only recommendation to them? Do the quick PR-two-step and find an amicable solution, right quick. Perhaps the Community has a commonly-shared club house facility? Many of these communities do. Why not offer to put up the flag pole THERE, and offer to have someone escort him EACH and EVERY day both in the morning and in the evening in order to conduct his ceremony, while at the same time publically demonstrating the Community's patriotism and how honored they are that someone like him (a MOH recipient) lives amongst them? I honestly feel they need to take it even further for PR / damage control sake, and place a plaque or monument somewhere near that community flagpole that honors the Colonel and tells his story, and also displays wording on how honored they are as a community that Col Barfoot, a MOH recipient, chose to live amongst them. In fact, as a selling point and PR move, they should post a sign outside of the community entrance that states "Proud to be the current home of MOH recipient Col Barfoot" in big, bold letters.

The HOA is in a PR nightmare right now. One that will negatively impact the ultimate reason they exist: to keep the community's property values up, as they will lose potential new buyers. They have to capitulate somehow. If the Colonel's family chooses not to compromise like I said above? You know what, the Colonel is 90! Sad to say it, but he most likely doesn't have a lot of time left on this Earth before he rejoins his band of brothers in heaven. Let the issue go for a few years, with an agreement with the family that once he passes the flagpole comes down.

To paraphrase a little: "The American Public and legal system--where common sense is an uncommon virtue"...
 
Forgot to add one more caveat: If the Community chooses to display a sign in front that tells they are the proud neighbors of a MOH recipient, they should waive his HOA fees because they are using him for free publicity in order to sell the neighborhood to potential buyers. Also looks good at this point PR-wise.

Just my opinion as well, but I also think MOH recipients should be excused from ever paying Federal taxes as well (if this isn't the case already, I'll have to research that). They've done enough for this country already.
 
It was for the HOA. Sorry did not mean any poster. We have had some recent issues with a 9/11 memorial here and it is sarting to get to me.:hammer:
 
I also remember one of my Professors who stated that we all remember that the Statue of Justice is blindfolded. He went on to state that the statue of Justitia, with the sword and the scales, is blindfolded so that she can not see how badly the scales are balanced influenced by the current whims of modern opinion. He was one of Merrill's Marauders, 5307th Composite Unit. He was hard but I liked him a lot although I didn't know why until years later.:biggrin:
 
Newport News dailypress.com




Dear Ms. Peterson:

I have been made aware of a situation involving a dispute between your client, the Sussex Square Homeowners Association in Henrico County, Virginia, and a homeowner, Van Barfoot, a retired Army Colonel. It is my understanding that Col. Barfoot installed a flagpole in the yard of his home for purposes of displaying the American flag and that the Homeowners Association is now requiring him to remove this flag pole under threat of legal action. I have been informed that the covenants governing this neighborhood association do not expressly forbid installation of flag poles and that the association opposed the flag pole on the grounds of its aesthetics.

I am mindful that the Association is a private entity, and I respect its right to regulate such matters. At the same time, as you are aware, Col. Barfoot served this country with great distinction, and I am very disturbed by the treatment that he received as he attempted to honor our nation by flying the American flag in the front yard of his home. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration awarded by the United States government. It is bestowed on a member of the United States armed forces who distinguishes himself "conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty." As a fellow combat veteran, I hope you and the Association will consider the exceptional nature of Col. Barfoot's service when considering his pride and determination in honoring our flag. I am pleased to join with many area citizens in expressing my concern over the action taken by the Sussex Square Homeowners Association.

Since it appears that Col. Barfoot's request was denied based on subjective criteria as opposed to an explicit regulatory violation of the covenants governing the Homeowner's Association, I would hope that your clients would exercise the discretion afforded to them to develop a reasonable resolution that would allow this distinguished combat veteran to honor our nation in a manner in keeping with the established traditions, customs and regulations governing the display of the flag of the United States of America.

Sincerely,

Jim Webb

United States Senator
 
As a previous HOA president, I can tell you that you face 1 of 2 options when confronted by such an action. You can either file legal action to protect your ability to enforce your covenants, or give in and grant a waiver.

With the first action, if you lose, you can lose big. The asthetics clause can be thrown out as too vague (depending upon verbage). From what I've been advised, style of an decoration (must match architecture of house/street) and proportion (must not exceed x height or y square feet or percentage of lot, etc.) can be used in aesthetics, but if the type of decoration is challenged (birdhouse is ok flagpole is not) without specifics (no water features allowed), an association is on slippery ground.

A properly worded HOA covenant will specify the list of approved decorations/improvements allowed and require all others to go before the board for approval. It is unclear from the news reports whether whether or not this particular covenant has this type of construction. The fact that flagpoles are not banned specifically would be irrelevant in this type of HOA covenant construction.

In any event, even if they have this restrictive type of covenant, the MOH recipient still can argue that the denial his request for the flagpole was done without proper regards to the aesthetics of the neighborhood. What elected judge in Virginia is going to say a reasonable flagpole in a front yard doesn't fit in anywhere?

Unless this is a 100 ft flagpole next to a 1000 sq ft home, I'm betting on the MOH recipient. In fact, if the HOA covenant has an officer removal clause, I wouldn't be surprised to see it used here.

If I were HOA president, I would be writing this gentleman a variance and then going through the process to re-write the covenants to address flagpoles (and any other structures deemed to be in need of regulation), grandfathering in any existing. It is OK to let the first one by (especially one like this), but HOA resources are better spent preventing problems than prosecuting them.

BTW, in my 2-years in office, I only had to send out 2 letters about violation of HOA restrictions. Both were courteous. Neither threatened action. Both were addressed within a short period of time. Both home owners were thanked. And we have a fairly toothless HOA covenant.
 
Glad this story had a happy ending. While driving home last night after a long airline trip, conservative talk radio host & NYT bestselling author, Mark Levin announced that the HOA dropped its case and will allow Col Barfoot to fly the Stars and Stripes on his property. Props to Mark for bringing this stupidity to the attention of his audience (5+ million listeners). Callers were outraged and I’m sure his influence allowed sanity to prevail.

And how have we evolved as a nation when nudniks in a HOA decide that the American Flag is not “aesthetically“ pleasing?
 
Glad this story had a happy ending. While driving home last night after a long airline trip, conservative talk radio host & NYT bestselling author, Mark Levin announced that the HOA dropped its case and will allow Col Barfoot to fly the Stars and Stripes on his property. Props to Mark for bringing this stupidity to the attention of his audience (5+ million listeners). Callers were outraged and I’m sure his influence allowed sanity to prevail.

And how have we evolved as a nation when nudniks in a HOA decide that the American Flag is not “aesthetically“ pleasing?

The whole "aesthetically" pleasing thing annoys me to no end. I don't care if you think the US flag is "pretty" or not ... deal with it. We're not on an episode of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". And for the record, I'm about as left as you can go left without changing my official voting status from Republican (which would cause my Daddy to turn over in his grave and I can't have that on my head).
 
The whole "aesthetically" pleasing thing annoys me to no end. I don't care if you think the US flag is "pretty" or not ... deal with it. We're not on an episode of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy". And for the record, I'm about as left as you can go left without changing my official voting status from Republican (which would cause my Daddy to turn over in his grave and I can't have that on my head).


The American people are mad as hell and this American Flag episode is just a microcosm of how much freedom we continue to lose every day….and we’re not just going to “deal” with it anymore. In fact, if we continue to sit back and watch our freedoms disappear, we’re not going to recognize our country (and that time is rapidly approaching). I proudly served this nation for over 20 years defending the freedoms brought forth since our founding fathers, and I want my children and future grandchildren to also enjoy those same freedoms.

Unfortunately, within the last year, our federal government is taking away more of our freedoms with an agenda that the American people strongly oppose: National Health Care, Cap & Trade Tax, government takeover of car companies, banks, financial institutions. Just yesterday, the EPA announced it’s going to regulate carbon emissions. Who gives these unelected bozos the right to tell us how to live? And state/local governments are just as guilty. Public schools are a “politically correct” cesspool…an obscene t-shirt is free speech, but wear anything with a religious overtone and the culprit is “frog-marched” down to the principal’s office.

I’ve decided it’s time to speak out. I write letters to the editor, call our elected representatives, donate money to conservative causes, attend tea parties and have no problems discussing political issues with co-workers. I believe in strong national defense & foreign policy, limited government, fiscal responsibility, capital punishment, border enforcement, low taxes, religious freedom, gun rights, a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter, good scotch, the sweet spot, that Lee Harvey acted alone, and that presents should be open Christmas morning. And I’ll soldier-up and do my part to move the nation in the right direction.

While you call yourself a Republican, RINO is probably more accurate.
 
Glad this story had a happy ending. While driving home last night after a long airline trip, conservative talk radio host & NYT bestselling author, Mark Levin announced that the HOA dropped its case and will allow Col Barfoot to fly the Stars and Stripes on his property. Props to Mark for bringing this stupidity to the attention of his audience (5+ million listeners). Callers were outraged and I’m sure his influence allowed sanity to prevail.

And how have we evolved as a nation when nudniks in a HOA decide that the American Flag is not “aesthetically“ pleasing?

Glad to hear that some common sense prevailed here. If I had to guess though, the story behind the story is that the residents, once they caught wind of how much money they stood to lose in legal fees, should the case not be financially successful (judge does not have to award legal fees and can only request the flagpole be taken down, if s/he so chooses) they probably discovered their love of the American Flag. :rolleyes:

And actually the issue was never the American Flag. The issue was the pole on which it flies, technically. Remeber, this wonderful American will pass some day and the next owner may choose to fly an offensive flag on that pole (pick your least favorite political cause or state supporter of terror).

Hopefully, the HOA was smart enough to negotiate a clause which restricts the use of the flag pole to the American, State, and City (if any) flags in prepetuity (stays with the deed to the house) in its agreement with the owner. I'm sure he'd have no problem doing that.
 
While you call yourself a Republican, RINO is probably more accurate.


Feel free to call me whatever makes you feel better. And I'll stand up for your right to do it freely in this country. But I believe that there will come a day when the Republican party will return to its roots and away from a religious right and again be the party I signed up for ... and so far I've been willing to wait for that day. Your advice on speaking out is spot on IMO ... I'd take it a step further and say that after I speak, I like to listen. I learn a lot that way.

I so love a good "Bull Durham" reference! I will however, admit to being a little annoyed that you referred to me as a rather large animal. :rolleyes:
 
this whole thing reminds me of when I lived in a condominium complex and the HOA asked our neighbor to remove the 'holiday decorations' on his home. He is an EMT and flew the US flag every day for the ten years I lived there and all of a sudden it became a 'non-compliant holiday decoration'. I did like his response to them....'I can't hear you, what did you say?' It's still up.

I have been flying the US flag on my porch for the four years I lived in my new house and the HOA hasn't said anything. I think it will be difficult to say anything dishonorable about it with the fire house flying theirs two doors down.:thumb:
 
The American people are mad as hell and this American Flag episode is just a microcosm of how much freedom we continue to lose every day….and we’re not just going to “deal” with it anymore. In fact, if we continue to sit back and watch our freedoms disappear, we’re not going to recognize our country (and that time is rapidly approaching). I proudly served this nation for over 20 years defending the freedoms brought forth since our founding fathers, and I want my children and future grandchildren to also enjoy those same freedoms.

Unfortunately, within the last year, our federal government is taking away more of our freedoms with an agenda that the American people strongly oppose: National Health Care, Cap & Trade Tax, government takeover of car companies, banks, financial institutions. Just yesterday, the EPA announced it’s going to regulate carbon emissions. Who gives these unelected bozos the right to tell us how to live? And state/local governments are just as guilty. Public schools are a “politically correct” cesspool…an obscene t-shirt is free speech, but wear anything with a religious overtone and the culprit is “frog-marched” down to the principal’s office.

I’ve decided it’s time to speak out. I write letters to the editor, call our elected representatives, donate money to conservative causes, attend tea parties and have no problems discussing political issues with co-workers. I believe in strong national defense & foreign policy, limited government, fiscal responsibility, capital punishment, border enforcement, low taxes, religious freedom, gun rights, a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter, good scotch, the sweet spot, that Lee Harvey acted alone, and that presents should be open Christmas morning. And I’ll soldier-up and do my part to move the nation in the right direction.

While you call yourself a Republican, RINO is probably more accurate.


I get your point. Honestly. But I'm often drawn to this letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to Samuel Kercheval on July 12, 1816 that makes me realize even the founding fathers knew that the Constitution was solid, but would need to be amended from time to time as man evolved:

"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They prescribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because when once known, we accomodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

Now that was a smart man ... and so before his time. Almost unbelievable how intelligent he was. I know there are Thomas Jefferson's out there now ... we have to find them and put them in government.
 
I saw a quick piece at the end of the NBC Nightly News about the resolution of the problem. They had a few shots of the gentleman, his house and the flagpole. It was a well proportioned (not too tall or short) and positioned flag pole for the lot. I'm confused as to why anyone would object to its placement.
 
I saw a quick piece at the end of the NBC Nightly News about the resolution of the problem. They had a few shots of the gentleman, his house and the flagpole. It was a well proportioned (not too tall or short) and positioned flag pole for the lot. I'm confused as to why anyone would object to its placement.

That baffles me as well. It seems to be the new way things are done. If you're unhappy with an aspect of your life, you take it out on your neighbor (or in this case his flag pole). The golden rule, people, remember the golden rule!
 
That baffles me as well. It seems to be the new way things are done. If you're unhappy with an aspect of your life, you take it out on your neighbor (or in this case his flag pole). The golden rule, people, remember the golden rule!

Caroline:
In the real world, you know the one you visit rarely.:shake:
The golden rule is those with the gold make the rules.
It's so easy a caveman could understand.:yllol:
 
ok folks- that's it- thread closed. It's a real talent that some of you have for taking a relatively straightforward thread in which virtually every poster is more or less in agreement and still turning it contentious- but the last couple of postings just took this in a direction where nothing good will follow.
 
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