Medical School after Naval Academy

Medical School after graduating from the Naval Academy

Well, I do believe that everyone is certainly entitled to there opinion. So, I will give my opinion regarding going to medical school and serving in the Navy. First of all, the navy has a long list of decorated Naval Officers who served their country on active duty with the navy as medical doctors. These professionals serve just like any other professional in other fields of endeavor. They keep our troops healthy so that they may serve our country at full capability and effectively.

Factually speaking, the Navy does allow up to 15 graduates from the academy to attend medical school right after graduation. Plus, they allow some of them to go on and complete their residencies prior to serving on active duty as a medical doctor. So, I would say that to demean the medical corp by implying that going to medical school after completing the academy is less than honorable service is not in keeping with Navy Policy and guidelines. So, yes, a person could go on to med school and serve his country by completing the programs which allow that person to serve his/her country honorably and effectively in the profession of medicine.

PILOTOMD CDR USN (retired) Pilot & MD
 
I don't believe anyone is demeaning service as a Navy MD. We are trying to provide a reality check for those seeking to do it directly from USNA.

It's very difficult to go to med school directly out of USNA. 10-12 (out of ~1000) do it each year. But USNA/the USN has some say in whether you can attend med school and where you attend, which can complicate matters.

Also, the service commitment is significant. For most, it means you'll be spending at least the next 20 years in the USN. That, of course, is NOT a bad thing. However, when you're 17 years old, the thought of doing anything for 20 yrs can be daunting.

Some USNA grads serve in the unrestricted line (pilot, SWO, etc.), get out and then go to med school or apply to med school while they're still in the USN. So, if being a doctor (or a Navy MD) is your dream, there are various options.
 
To update things a little bit: The Naval Academy has not permitted more than 10 to go into the Medical Corps for over 5 yrs. Each year, it's been a maximum of 10 - provided 10 even qualify. Since graduating classes are typically exceeding 1000 - that means LESS than 1% are permitted to go into the Medical Corps. USMA and USAFA take a higher percentage.

Having said that - it is COMPLETELY self-selecting. If you make yourself competitive for medical school - the chances of you NOT being competitive for one of those 10 slots are very slight. You WILL be competitive!

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe the class of 2012 only has 6 who went Medical Corps, despite the 10 advertised spots. If you are not competitive for admission into medical school, the Navy can hardly send you into the Medical Corps.

Don't forget you are NOT competing against your entire class. Most midshipmen view it as such a far-fetched option, they don't even try ... or they give up very early.

Also, the notion that it is somehow LESS patriotic to serve in the Medical Corps is ridiculous. Of all the graduates, the Medical Corps selectees have committed themselves to service longer than ANY of the other graduates ... that includes the pilots, nukes, and even the SEALs. It's a CAREER decision that they are making very early in their life. To me, that's commitment!

Again, the breakdown works something like this:

Typically, Chemistry majors are the ones who are most interested in pursuing the Medical Corps. Nominally speaking, there are about 45 Chem majors. Let's add another 5 to that since there are always a few who validated a lot of courses and majored in something else who are sometimes interested in going Med Corps.

So, from the outset, we're talking about 50 competing for 10 slots.

About 20 of them will find out as soon as Plebe year that they are not going to have the grades.

Now the competition is down to 30.

Then Organic Chemistry is going to take its toll. 10 more will drop by the wayside.

Now the competition is down to 20.

Some will decide that they really want to be pilots, or marines, or some other community will catch their interest.

Let's subtract 5.

At least 1 of them will get into some kind of conduct, honor, or aptitude problem that will cause them to be out of the running.

Some will simply not do the "extra" things required to be competitive for medical school. (i.e. research, shadowing a doctor, humanitarian activites, etc.)

Some will do poorly on the MCAT -or- just not take it for one reason or another.

In the end, there are usually 10 or less "standing". The academy really has very little deciding to do. The midshipmen who end up getting assigned to the Medical Corps were not "awarded" it in the same manner that many are "awarded" their service selection - they truly EARNED it.
 
Two cents from an ex-Nuke DDS

usna1985 said:
Some USNA grads serve in the unrestricted line (pilot, SWO, etc.), get out and then go to med school or apply to med school while they're still in the USN. So, if being a doctor (or a Navy MD) is your dream, there are various options.
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I have largely been a "lurker" on this Forum, learning from the experiences of others as they await their own/DS/DD's fates from start to finish, and enjoying the banter (and humor) along the way. (BTW, I'm the proud dad of DS who received his BFE two days ago. Whew!) This thread is particularly interesting and hits close to home, as a former Nuke SWO who retired as an Navy Orthodontist. (Although Alex is interested in becoming an MD, the paths to MD and DDS are very similar--4 year medical/dental school after undergrad, internship/AEGD, 2-4 year specialty residency. Indeed, although USNA allows anywhere from a few to 20 grads to pursue med school, in my day, and I think still, there are ZERO opportunities for immediate entry into dental school. As such, I never had any delusions of attending the NA to become a dentist.)

I agree with most of what has been said here, and would echo the sentiment expressed to Alex that if the primary and ultimate goal is the shortest route to becoming an MD, SA's are probably not the place to do so. In my case, I literally wanted to be a dentist since I can remember, age 6 or so. (One too many Rudolph viewings?) At any rate, it's what I wanted to do all the way up through high school. But I also had a knack for math/science and thought that engineering would be a great field for me as well. I applied to the Naval Academy as well as traditional universities. Admittedly, the potential for a tuition-free education weighed heavily, but more so I was enamored with the Academy at an early age and wanted to be a part of what it had to offer. LONG story short, I jumped at the appointment that was offered, immediately realizing that my dentist dreams were off the table. And that was fine. In my mind, the primary mission of USNA was (and is) to produce line officers, not orthodontists or neurologists (although I had a Fluid Mechanics prof who I swore was a proctologist--any engineering major from the early 70's to late 90's know who I am referring to... :eek:)

parkhurst89 said:
However, the USNA curriculum designed to mentally develop Midshipmen into officers in the naval service. The quoted mission statement of the Naval Academy has changed over years, but the end-product of the four years has varied little.
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So I was an engineering major at USNA, attended grad school, Navy Nuke Power training, and served as Nuke SWO for 8 years including shore duty as USNA faculty member in Systems Engineering. Got out and was a Professional Engineer for 3 years as a civilian. I wouldn't change a thing. Fantastic experiences and education. BUT, that dentist-thing was always talking to me in the background. Again, long (sorry) story short, the Navy needed dentists, there were some scholarships available (I think the same programs exist in medicine), and I loved the Navy. Perfect fit! After convincing DW that I wasn't crazy, loaded up our belongs in a U-Haul, back in the Navy, and off to dental school. Went from an O-4 to an O-1 in a flash. Recommissioned afterwards as a LT Navy Dentist and pinched myself everyday thereafter. Finally retired after 23 last year. I really feel that if you want something badly enough, you can make it happen, it just might take awhile (15 years in my case...) So, I wholeheartedly agree with Parkhurst--

parkhurst89 said:
At the risk of sounding corny, nothing is impossible if you really want it. Echoing some of the advice, nothing is certain except death and taxes.
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Summary--
1. Although Med School is possible, it's not the normal result of a SA education. Attend with the mindset, willingness (nay, desire) to become a line officer in our Armed Forces, as Med School may not pan out right away. (And who knows, you may serve as a pilot, submariner, SWO, whatever, and realize that THIS is what your calling is and that Med School desire may fade away...)
2. DON'T, however, let go of that dream, as there are several ways to get there down the road.

Cheers and good luck to all!
 
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USNA85 said:
Summary--
1. Although Med School is possible, it's not the normal result of a SA education.
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True, but that is mostly because very few apply to the Naval Academy with the intention of going into the Medical Corps. Yet, there are spots available - despite the presumption that the Naval Academy's mission is to "only" produce line officers. If that were true those spots would not be available.

Besides, the Navy gets a lot of bang for its buck in assigning Academy grads into the Medical Corps because, in addition to the service obligations that go along with getting their medical education paid for, they have to serve the 5-yr Naval Academy commitment. Those obligations have to be served successively, not concurrently.

Attend with the mindset, willingness (nay, desire) to become a line officer in our Armed Forces, as Med School may not pan out right away.
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That is absolutely true.

One thing is important to remember, however: If Med School doesn't pan out at the Naval Academy, there's a good chance it was not going to pan out for you no matter WHERE you went to school. The Naval Academy is pretty impressive to have on the Med School resume. They already know that you are ready for the rigors of Med School and that you are an excellent time manager. That's a GIVEN.

(And who knows, you may serve as a pilot, submariner, SWO, whatever, and realize that THIS is what your calling is and that Med School desire may fade away...)
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Yes, this happens all the time; especially when the midshipman finds out that just getting good grades at the Naval Academy is NOT the recipe to getting selected for the Medical Corps. That is only a piece of the puzzle. Further, it is intimidating when they discover that it is a CAREER decision.

The Naval Academy does not walk the midshipmen through the process of "what it takes" to get accepted. They do not hold their hand. They leave it up to THEM to figure it out. Any midshipman seeking a spot in the Medical Corps needs to do his "homework" and figure out "what it takes."

2. DON'T, however, let go of that dream, as there are several ways to get there down the road.
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I think it is bad advice to tell candidates that it's better to go through an NROTC program if they desire to go into the Medical Corps. Why? Because it's easier? True. But don't you think the admissions boards at the medical schools realize that? Conquering big challenges is a big plus.

Also, it's no less a career decision for the NROTC grad as he will also have to serve his NROTC commitment ... just at the USNA grad has to serve his.

The average age for the beginning med school student is 25yrs old. Yet, most students graduate from college when they are 22 or 23 yrs old. What's the explanation for that? That's easy! It's HARD to get accepted into medical school directly out of college because the applicant is usually MISSING something on his resume. That is never the case with the Naval Academy grad.
 
I know this an old thread but I found it interesting as I have the same question for my son. Alex, what was your decision and how's it going?
 
Another thing about the Medical Corps very few people know: Whatever medical school a selectee gets accepted to - the Navy will pay 100% of the tuition, 100% for books, 100% for equipment. HPSP scholarships (those who decide to attend a civilian medical school, which is usually the majority) will also get a $20,000 signing bonus. Upon graduation from the Naval Academy, they will be released from active duty and will have no military obligations. They are in the Individual Ready Reserves. Their only job is to attend medical school. While attending medical school, they will be given over $2100/month as a stipend. During 6 weeks of the year, they will be on "active" duty and will receive full active duty pay; although, they really have no obligations during this period. Basically, it's just a pay boost. Naval Academy and NROTC graduates really do not have anything to learn about the military since they already learned it during their undergraduate training. They will be in possession of an active duty military ID the entire time while attending medical school.

Academy graduates who enter the Medical Corps still owe the Navy 5-yrs for their Naval Academy education. They incur an addition 4-yr obligation for attending medical school unless they attend USUHS, the military's medical school, in which they incur an additional 7-yr obligation. The reason for the higher service commitment for USUHS is that they will be on full pay and benefits while attending medical school. USUHS medical school students do not get the $20,000 signing bonus, however. Plus, USUHS students have military obligations throughout their medical training. Like I said, the majority of the academy graduates take the HPSP (civilian) scholarship.

Here's the really odd thing (which I find almost comical) - all HPSP students are given uniform allowances. There is an assumption that all the HPSP medical students will need to purchase military uniforms even though Naval Academy and NROTC grads already have the uniforms. They get the uniform allowance, nonetheless.

So, an HPSP selectee will have a 9-yr service obligation (5 from the academy and 4 for attending medical school) which is only one less year of service obligation than a pilot. It should be noted, however, that the clock for serving that obligation does not begin until they finish their residency, just as the pilot's obligation does not begin until they earn their wings.
 
Hi I'm new to forums.
If I go to med school after USNA, how much time do I have to serve? I was thinking 10 years? Since USNA is supporting me with med school.
 
It would be better to start a new thread then tack onto something from 2008. This also avoids confusion as to which question people are replying to who may not notice this is from several years ago. Lots of older threads also deal with your question.
 
jipsyjips said:
Hi I'm new to forums.
If I go to med school after USNA, how much time do I have to serve? I was thinking 10 years? Since USNA is supporting me with med school.
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If you get selected for the Medical Corps directly out of USNA - you will enter one of two military scholarship programs: USUHS (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences) or HPSP (Health Professions Scholarship Program).

Either way, the graduate will owe the Navy 5 years for their USNA education. The USUHS students will accrue an additional 7 years. The HPSP students will accrue an additional 5 years. These two obligations (USNA + medical school) are served successively and begin after residency is completed (i.e. not medical school).
 
Memphis correct me f I wrong... Don't certain specialities equate to more time? I thought someone who get GP versus Cardiology adds more time also or is that wrong?
 
Memphis9489 said:
If you get selected for the Medical Corps directly out of USNA - you will enter one of two military scholarship programs: USUHS (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences) or HPSP (Health Professions Scholarship Program).

Either way, the graduate will owe the Navy 5 years for their USNA education. The USUHS students will accrue an additional 7 years. The HPSP students will accrue an additional 5 years. These two obligations (USNA + medical school) are served successively and begin after residency is completed (i.e. not medical school).
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A USNA graduate pursuing this medical field will be committing 14-16 years after commissioning (assuming a min of 4 yrs of med residency program). That is a BIG commitment.
 
And jipsy, there are dozens of threads in this topic in ROTC and the various SA forums. Probably learn a ton cruising through those
 
NavyHoops said:
Memphis correct me f I wrong... Don't certain specialities equate to more time? I thought someone who get GP versus Cardiology adds more time also or is that wrong?
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The residency requirements for the different specialties vary. The commitment is not extended because of any one specialty; rather, the clock doesn't start "ticking" until after residency is completed. This is analogous to the aviation commitment not beginning until after winging.
 
I have a Plebe in the 2020 class. Her Mom is a 2nd generation MD. Mom, (my wife) is VERY hopeful her daughter will choose a carreer in Medicine but ultimately came around supporting DD's choice to attend the USNA. Things that swung Mom.

1) One of her partners is a USNA grad; He flew A4s. He finished his commitment and went to Med. School. The guy is my age, practiced anna(?)---annisthisol(?)---"he's knocked people out" for 15yrs. Now he is CEO of a large hospital in the burbs of Seattle. BTW this guy was absolutely "Jacked" when he learned my kid picked USNA. Wife was not convinced; "that's fine for a guy, but a women has a reporductive clock ticking". We started late with kids because of our schooling, wife was 30 and having children was really really really really .......a struggle. But if your a guy?
2) The newest partner in wife's group is a USAFA grad who swung a plum partnership in-part because the level of responsibility she had as a USAF MD, proved that she could do anything asked of her. This women had children during her residency; not optimal, but few things are in life. Besides, now-days they freeze eggs and reproductive medicine has advanced beyond "counting sperm" and running them through an "O-course".
3) THE BIG REASON was maturation. Our DD is just short of 18. She isn't exactly sure what she wants to do for a lifes work. She may do 20yrs USN, She may choose law school (God help us) or Medicine at the end of 5yrs. She will be 26 when she wraps up her 5yrs. In the mean time she will have completed her BA/BS at one of maybe 15 schools in the country where a BA/BS actually means something. She'll own the respect, the experience and the maturity that come from serving as an officer in the USN for 5yrs,(BTW more important to Med Schools than other Grad programs). She will know herself and her long term carrer interests far better than she does today. Whatever her call is, it will be the decision of an adult, not a kid in a rush to chase a carrer goal developed in her mid teens. Whatever she decides, she will have no debt and likely cash in the bank when she starts that grad work.

So, Mom agreed (reluctantly) with DD's USNA choice, and we head off to Annapolis for ID. When wife got a look at the other Plebes, the school, the course of study, the EFFORT school, Mid, and USN put into educating these future officers, "agreement" turned into gleaming, proud, ringing endorsement. Its hard for her, to have DD turn into an "adult" in 24hrs and be soooo far away, but she wouldn't have it any other way.

USNA and MD are not mutually exclusive choices. Maybe you make one of the few slots for Docs in each USNA class. Maybe you take the Medcat, do well, and the USN sends you to school in your 2nd-3rd-or 4th year of service. Worse case, you exit USN and you are 26-27-28 years old as a first year med student. The mean age for a first year Med student is 24 and it goes up each year. I understand why the USN wants it understood that it is looking for officers not MDs/JDs but the simple fact is both are totally do-able, (unless you are in a real big rush to find the desk you will sit behind for 35+ years).

My advice to you and other young men/women wieghing the benifits of quicker entry into a profession vs USNA+5 is--- YOU HAVE TIME!!. Odds are you'll live a long life and work into your 70s, (you have that national debt to pay off). Go: follow your heart, see, do, learn. Have fun, test yourself, come to really know yourself. Then make that long term carrer choice, you'll have 30+ years in any carreer you choose. CRAP! I envy my kid!

Sorry for the long post (again) but I wish somebody had said something like this to me 40 years ago---------------but then I wasn't much good at takeing advice in those days.
 
Remember this, however - if your plan is to pursue the Medical Corps as a service assignment out of the Naval Academy - you can't wait for the maturation process. You have to hit the ground running at USNA with that as a goal. Nobody stumbles into a Medical Corps slot. In many respects, Plebe year is more important than your final your because the academy's Medical Corps Selection Board will announce their final decision on the selectees shortly after they return from summer training to begin their Firstie year. The Medical Corps selectees find out before anybody else because they have to get going with applying to medical schools - another hurdle besides simply getting selected by the academy. You still have to be accepted into a medical school on your own merit just like everybody else applying to medical school. And, even with that, they're getting a late start. There will be some already accepted into some medical schools before the academy graduates even get the green light to begin applying.

However, having said that, I have never heard of a Naval Academy Medical Corps selectee who failed to get accepted into medical school. It's a very impressive thing to have on your resume. It answers all kinds of questions without them even asking. Are you dedicated? Are you a hard worker? Is service a high priority for you? Are you a good time manager? Can you overcome hardships? Are you doing this only for the money?

The Naval Academy is not saying "We're not looking for MDs" - because, if they weren't, they wouldn't be sending graduates in that direction. What they do say, however, is, "We're not looking for nurses and lawyers" because neither of those are options for service assignment although they are options for NROTC/OCS graduates.
 
Actually when I was there 1-2 Med School selectees did not get into applied med schools. My class had 2 and I know there were 1-2 a year. Memphis said it best, no one stumbles into Med School slots. Bottom line, do as well as you can and it opens doors as a Mid and later on. If med school is something you are interested in going out of USNA there is a specific path and those with this interest are identified early. They usually self select to remove from this path as they just don't cut it academically, they decide they want to fly or they just don't want the commitment. But everyone comes to this with exposure during their time at USNA. I will say I have had a lot of friends go to med school after they got out of the military and they have all done well.
 
NavyHoops said:
Actually when I was there 1-2 Med School selectees did not get into applied med schools. My class had 2 and I know there were 1-2 a year. Memphis said it best, no one stumbles into Med School slots. Bottom line, do as well as you can and it opens doors as a Mid and later on. If med school is something you are interested in going out of USNA there is a specific path and those with this interest are identified early. They usually self select to remove from this path as they just don't cut it academically, they decide they want to fly or they just don't want the commitment. But everyone comes to this with exposure during their time at USNA. I will say I have had a lot of friends go to med school after they got out of the military and they have all done well.
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Good insights. I used to sit on that board at USNA which selected mids who were allowed to apply for the roughly 13 spaces a year permitted to service select Med Corps, and have 6 sponsor mid alumni in MC, one at med school right now.

"Apply" is the key word. There are maybe 1-2 a year who don't gain acceptance to a med school and must therefore service select another path. MCAT score is usually the problem. There are profs who advise these mids, and they know the schools which have good track records of accepting them at certain MCATs and GPA. . That said, USUHS will usually take SA candidates, because they know what they are getting in terms of quality and drive.

There are many, many threads on the various paths to military medicine. A SA is not the majority provider, but it is possible. Anyone thinking about that path must have a non-medical warfare specialty they would be happy to pursue, should they not make the cut. That's usually one of the first interview questions at the board interview....
 
My DD attended USAFA and also wanted to attend medical school. I remember when she was applying to the academy we were at a meeting of our congressmen and senators and they told all the kids in the auditorium to stand and look around them. They said that everybody that you see standing is your competition to get an appointment. You might be the smartest kid in your school but everybody you see standing is the smartest kid in their school.

That being said, the few medical school, dental school and law school slots are very competitive. MY DD did not get a medical school slot upon graduation but she did not give up. She studied for the MCAT during her 60 day summer leave and took the test and applied for the AFHPSP. She was one of the few that received the scholarship this year and is headed to a civilian medical school. If that is the route you are forced to take make yourself as desirable as possible as it can be a long road. Work on your masters after graduation, volunteer at a local hospital and work hard at your day job as you will need the support of your chain of command to separate.

Memphis9489 made lots of great points especially about Organic. That class was the deal breaker for many of my DD's classmates that wanted to be an AF doc.

FYI - Info on other boards it appears that the Army gives out the most seats in medical school.
 
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