Medical school and the Naval Academy

I'm going to have to apologize. I just wrote a very lengthy and detailed response to the questions only to have the forum want me to log back in because it took so long to write, ha. So it will take me a bit to get the energy to write it again.

But, basically yes, the service obligations are the same for a USNA/USAFA/USMA graduate who does HPSP/USUHS as a person who has never set foot in the military who then does HPSP/USUHS.
 
There is medical incentive pay for those who "obliserve" in a specialty the USN wants to retain. Based on my understanding, it doesn't kick in until you have completed your obligation to the USN. The amount helps close the gap between military and civilian pay in some of the specialties, but generally won't eliminate it.

Regarding medical incentive pay ...

Let's say two medical students start medical school on the same day. The only difference between them is that one was a USNA grad and other graduated from a civilian university.

They have both received the HPSP scholarship and are getting their medical school paid for while receiving a stipend.

After they both finish medical school, the USNA grad will have a 9-yr obligation (5 + 4) whereas the civilian grad will have only a 4-yr obligation.

4 years go by and the civilian elects to remain in the Navy.

Assume all things are equal between them. They are both, let's say, in the Ear, Nose, and Throat specialty.

Are you saying the civilian could now be getting incentive pay because his obligation has ended but the USNA grad will not be getting any incentive pay because he's still on the hook for 5 more years; even though, medically speaking, they are in exactly in the same spot in their career?

USNA1985, I realize you are not a doctor - but I'm just using your post to ask the question of the few in this forum who seem to know a lot about this kind of stuff.

I also realize you're probably thinking, "What the heck does all this detail have to do with the admission process to the Naval Academy?"

Two things:
1. I'm personally curious, and
2. there may be some who are going to the Naval Academy specifically to become a doctor and they should probably know these details. They are rather eye-opening, to say the least.
 
Plus, I also understand that the academy has to APPROVE a midshipman's effort to get accepted into Medical School. If that's true - when does that "approval" occur? In other words, you have to be pre-approved to even START going down that path.

The most recent USNA instruction regarding med/dental school assignments that I've read is a few years old, but it indicated that Mids should indicate their interest in such an assignment during the spring of 2/C (junior) year.

If a Mid is interested in med/dental school, they cannot wait for pre-approval to "start down that path." In order to meet med school course prerequisites, Mids must take extra courses (at least two semesters of biology, for instance), over and above the curriculum for their major, even if they are chem majors. They must also prepare for, take, and do well on the MCAT "on their own." These things must be done before the end of 2/C year.
 
Are you saying the civilian could now be getting incentive pay because his obligation has ended but the USNA grad will not be getting any incentive pay because he's still on the hook for 5 more years; even though, medically speaking, they are in exactly in the same spot in their career?


Yes, this would be correct in regards to the "multi-year specialty pay (MSP)". The "civilian" could sign on the dotted line for 2, 3, or 4 more years and receive a bonus each of those years that the USNA grad would not be elgible for.

Why you say is this the way it is? Well the USNA grad is already on the hook for additional years so why pay him more? The civilian on the other hand could leave any day, so let's pay him more to get him to stay.

Now remember that USNA grad has zero college debt; whereas the civilian guy is paying off undergrad debt (unless on scholarship, etc)
 
Now remember that USNA grad has zero college debt; whereas the civilian guy is paying off undergrad debt (unless on scholarship, etc)

I assume that an NROTC grad (who was on an NROTC scholarship) and who also gets accepted into one of these medical school programs has to serve out his NROTC obligation just as the USNA grad does - correct?
 
I assume that an NROTC grad (who was on an NROTC scholarship) and who also gets accepted into one of these medical school programs has to serve out his NROTC obligation just as the USNA grad does - correct?

Sorry I missed this one: Yes, that is correct the NROTC and medical obligations would also be served consecutively.
 
Okay, so after getting my initial response messed up by being logged out, I've finally built up the energy to rewrite, so here goes. Some of this will likely get into "the weeds" as they like to say, but I'll try to make it readable. (Realize not even all medical corps officers understand all the details and not even the personnel depts understand [as I found out the hard way once])

Do non-USNA grads, who get involved in one of these military-paid medical school programs, get the identical obligation as the USNA grads for the same program? I understand the USNA grads have the 5yrs to serve for their USNA education ... I'm just talking about the additional portion for medical school.

In other words, let's say a University of Michigan undergrad student (non-ROTC) applies and gets accepted to a civilian medical school and has the Navy pay for it (HPSP). You've said that program has a four year obligation attached to it - and the years in medical school, obviously, do not count toward that obligation. So, we're talking approximately 7yrs after his graduation from the University of Michigan, he/she could be out practicing privately as a civilian with zero medical school debt? Or, at least, out doing a civilian residency.

Yes, the "civilian" graduate would have the same obligation for medical school and any Graduate Medical Education/GME (official term for medical internships/residency/fellowships)

The commitments are as follows:
HPSP= year for year (there are 3yr scholarships available)
USUHS= 7yrs
Any Graduate Medical Education = 6mos for every 6mos
Upon graduation from any GME program you cannot have less time left to serve than that equal to the number of years you spent in training. (example, you start a fellowship that is 2yrs long at a point in your career that you only have one year left on an obligation. You would then graduate from that program with a 2yr commitment)

For ease of understanding I always say your Academy/ROTC/USUHS time does not get paid back during training; however, officially this is not correct. You actually do pay off time for those commitments while in training; however, you are at the same time picking up a new 6mos/6mos obligation. Simply easier to just say payback pauses, but this does in fact have a subtle effect (this is "the weeds" I mentioned.)

It's hard to imagine that the Navy is getting its money's worth on that deal.
I would say the Navy gets a fair deal out of it. They pay for 3 or 4 years of medical school (they pay tuition/fees + a small stipend) and in return get a doctor for at least 5 years. They get to deploy this doctor to the farthest reaches of the world and make them work in austere environments with minimal manning and funding. (As an example, I just returned from a deployment on the ground in the Middle East where I had over 400 people I had to take care of with a budget of $0)

Further, do those in the medical field get any kind of "incentive pay" (or, whatever it's called) over-and-above their normal military pay?

Yes, there are several pays that physicians are entitled to based on specialty, years of service, board certified, training status, etc. You can see the full table at this link: http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2010WebPayTable34.pdf however, here's the skinny:

Variable Special Pay: All physicians regardless of training status, based on years, ranges from 100 to 1,000 a month
Additional Special Pay: Lump sum $15,000 for all physicians not in training
Incentive Special Pay: Based on specialty, ranges from 20 to 36,000 a year
Multiyear Special Pay: Based on specialty and must agree to an obligation of 2-4 more years. Is in the 5 figure range per year. Can only get this if you have completed all other obligations.

There are also some other special pays you can qualify for based on your billet: Flight Pay, Sea Duty Pay, Dive Pay, etc; however, those are available to everyone not just physicians.

I would think the Navy would get considerable bang for their buck putting Naval Academy graduates into the medical field.

Yes, they basically get a career officer.
 
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