Meloncoly Blues

[bruno]

No, as my 2nd LT explained to me, "you train like you fight". As a parent, this is just part of the learning process I'm going through in the transition from a USNA student parent to a Marine Officers parent. Like I said, I was surprsed to learn that even with a heat index of 126 to 128 last Friday all TBS physical training went on as scheduled. Part of the reasoning is as officers, they are expected to perform in all conditions but also at this point in TBS they are in peak physical condition and can handle the discomfort and perform.

Yet at the same time the Marine Captain in charge of my 2nd LT's platoon informed her that if the platoon were enlisted Marines still in bootcamp and he ordered them to do the same training he would likly be releaved and face a potential court martial for endangering the health and safety of his men.

I find the dicotomy of those statements interesting.

To a point you train like you fight. But for example when you call fire or air support- in training - Danger Close is NOWHERE near what it is in combat. Why? Because the benefit is significantly dwarfed by the risk inherent in close in fires. Training in live fire exercises is limited by range and safety constraints because casualties are not acceptable. So you "train as you fight" to the extent practicable.
Because a soldier has to hump a mountain in 100+ degree heat, doesn't mean that there is a reason to risk life in a training environment. BTW I am not saying that was the case in Quantico at TBS last week (as I rather suspect that they did make some accommodations to the weather and just didn't tell the Lts) but rather I am stating absolutely that there is no justification in a training environment to ignore common sense precautions and risk soldiers lives. And that's why the Captain told those Lts that he would be relieved if he did this with a platoon of enlisted Marines. The officer who ignores Cat 5 heat warnings and drives on with training without effective precautions and then has a Soldier or Marine become a heat casualty has- at best- trashed his career. That would be true if it was an E1 or an O1 by the way so this Captain was kind of clueless to say this in front of a platoon in the midst of what was a brutal heat wave.

And as far as that Navy LtJg and his year of humping in 1972- well he wasn't going to get any better at it by becoming a heat casualty in Panama before he got to Vietnam. Aviators btw also have peacetime limitations on what they do in training for exactly the same reason- a dead or injured pilot who got that way pushing the envelope because he might be called upon to do so in a combat environment does nobody any good. It's a foolish argument made basically to be cantankerous and is not what the Marine corps, Army, or any of he other services believes or practices (see tpgs comments in previous post). It is a demonstrable fact that exposure to heat injuries does not train you for more- it just weakens your ability to deal with future exposure. And as I said before- the heat is not something you can stud out- anymore than a nonswimmer can stud out watersurvival without flotation devices. Both are deadly and are treated that way and I sure hope that the guys running TBS did treat it that way.

 

[Mongo]

I think we all agree that there were controls in place that perhaps might not have been obvious to the students and I am sure that the students walked away last week with a better appreciation of heat related issues and their capabilities in such an environment. My sole point. What a cantankerous moderator who is no longer acting as moderators want to foolishly say about it is really none of my concern.

OBTW,I was flying off Yankee Station in 1972 and the only pack I carried was my overnight bag ashore in the PI. Since you seem to think you know everything about Naval Aviation, I won't even get into the effects of extreme heat on lift, but, needless to say, my exposure to it caused me to learn a lot.

 

[AF6872]

Hasn't worn them down yet even without Black Flag day off. Still looking for Sgt. Striker. "We make a mistake and some guy don't walk away. Forevermore, he don't walk away". It may be a quote from a movie but it is the real deal for them. Learn the hard way. We used to see some guys off "Yankee" go down and run some SAR back in the old days. The real old days! Bangkock was a lot better than Angeles City in the PI.

 

[J.NordicSkier7]

My Firstie son told me he might not come home for Christmas this year because he has a girl friend who lives 1000 miles (from here) and he wants to see her. She's also a cadet (and he can see her EVERY DAY!

Santa Claus is putting in an order for coal.

I'm not even taking him for Christmas, just part of break! Isn't coal a little bit harsh considering I'm going to be 1000 miles from home for Thanksgiving

 

[eheart]

I-day changed everything. Felt fantasticly proud and a horrible loss at the same time because you know things will never be the same. Plebe year and 3C year are the worst but then you get more used to the changes. The goodbyes still are not fun but they don't kill you. 2nd class and firsty years have so many milestones and new opportunities that you focus on those with her every step. There are moments of being dad again.

Last week was graduation for her. It was a fantastic week of sites, sounds, personal awards, and pagentry. It was emotionally draining for everyone.

- I get to see her in her dress blues for the first time at 6 AM on graduation morning. Had to leave the kitchen for a few moments before I lost it in front of the whole family.
- After she recieved her diploma, it took her 10 minutes to get back to her seat because of all the hugs and congratulations from friends. It just reconfirmed for me that she has been exacly where she belongs for the past 4 years.

Saying goodbye Sunday was not fun but the moment passed quickly and now we are planning for Warrior Day graduation from TBS.

 

[AF6872]

I-day, Graduation last week, Plebe Year, USCGA and now TBS? Former posts were in the first person? Now you are a father? As Vinny Barbarino once said: "I am so confused"

 

[mumsyto3]

I-day, Graduation last week, Plebe Year, USCGA and now TBS? Former posts were in the first person? Now you are a father? As Vinny Barbarino once said: "I am so confused"

Looks like eheart is spamming the forum. All of his/her posts are reprints of other's posts!

 

[Pima]

Last week was graduation for her. It was a fantastic week of sites, sounds, personal awards, and pagentry. It was emotionally draining for everyone.
- I get to see her in her dress blues for the first time at 6 AM on graduation morning. Had to leave the kitchen for a few moments before I lost it in front of the whole family

That was the tip off.

1. Last I checked graduation was @ 2 months ago!
2. Dress Blues? You have never seen your child in 4 yrs in their dress uniform? Also, if I am correct they don't wear their Dress Blues to graduation, they wear their parade uniform.
3. USCGA and TBS, I didn't realize the CG is now sending officers to a Marine school for Basics.

I don't mind trolls, but come on if you are going to take the time to find this site, make an account, couldn't you at least take a few minutes getting with it regarding how SAs work. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the news carries every yr the SA graduations, and that they graduate the same time as traditional colleges, so to say LAST WEEK just proved they were a troll!

Seriously for trollers, at least get it right.

 

[patentesq]

This is a pretty funny thread.

 

[MIDNDAD]

Guess I should be flattered to be plagerized.

Also, I should have said Marine Dress Blues. It was a wow moment for this dad.