Merit Scholarship versus ROTC Scholarship

This is great info. What are some of the major issues that would cause a SMC Cadet not get approved for active duty. How many cadets do you think lose out and do you think because cuts backs they are cutting qualified candidates? I just dont know how bad it is out there.
 
Those not recommended for AD will be cadets that have very low spots on the OML, low grades, low APFT, poor performance in ROTC, honor code issues. Do well and the cadet should not have any issues.
 
Didn't someone post a while back that there is a certain number of cadets that each SMC can commission every year. It seems like they linked an article from Norwich that said every year they have to turn away students that were thinking they would commission. In which case wouldn't being a contracted cadet on scholarship be a plus (as long as you were decent on the internal OML)
 
I think people are getting a little paranoid for the sake of drama about this. At my SMC, things like who didn't get AD spread like wildfire, probably faster than who got prom queen. For one, people don't factor in those who WANT Reserves/Guard when they commission. Its a respectable number. And two, for those very, VERY few that don't make it, don't just have a low APFT or had a hard time at LDAC. These are people that never even passed the APFT until their junior year, was on academic probation for having a 1.7 gpa for 3 different semesters, barely survived an honor trial and had a couple alcohol violations under their belt as well, AND have a hard time socializing/working with others or conveying any kind of sense of competence. Not getting AD from an SMC is very difficult if you're anything close to a "good cadet".
 
QA1517 said:
Didn't someone post a while back that there is a certain number of cadets that each SMC can commission every year. It seems like they linked an article from Norwich that said every year they have to turn away students that were thinking they would commission. In which case wouldn't being a contracted cadet on scholarship be a plus (as long as you were decent on the internal OML)
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Not if there are people ahead of you on the OML, scholarship or no, who are better. Think "results oriented". And BTW, we're not talking about not commissioning. Everyone who completes the program will commission. Some will go AD and some Reserve/Guard.
 
Well, he'll have to work hard, keep fit get good grades to get what he wants. Right now he is a senior at private military prep high school where he is second in command of the school. He knows he'll have start all over again, which fine as well as good for him. First off, let's see if he gets an ROTC scholarship this year. If not, his sophomore year, which will give him a good idea if he wants to proceed onward. One never knows- there might be a tiny, tiny tiny chance he decides it's not what he wants. (I'd be shocked but supportive)
Would love to see stats on which part of the country has most high school kids applying for ROTC and want a career in the military. I'm only in a small part, but the high school my son goes to there would be at least 2+ kids to West Point, many to VMI, Citadell, Norwich etc. This graduating class there are only 2 kids interested in military careers. My son and another.
 
Hi Dogstar,

Last year my DS (to USAFA) and one of his female friends (to USCGA) were the first kids from that highschool to go a SA in many, many years. This year my DD (to USAFA) and we believe possibly one other student will head to an SA. And this is a public high school with several thousand students and an active and respected JRROTC program.

In our area at least, it seems as if the vast majority that go on to an SA are from private highschools.
 
Dogstar510 said:
This is great info. What are some of the major issues that would cause a SMC Cadet not get approved for active duty. How many cadets do you think lose out and do you think because cuts backs they are cutting qualified candidates? I just dont know how bad it is out there.
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Sadly, not enough. As long as you're not a complete $%^$bag you'll get what you want.
 
Full Metal Bulldog you posted this: (Not flaming or attacking you just referencing who posted).
These are people that never even passed the APFT until their junior year, was on academic probation for having a 1.7 gpa for 3 different semesters, barely survived an honor trial and had a couple alcohol violations under their belt as well, AND have a hard time socializing/working with others or conveying any kind of sense of competence. Does this really happen at an SMC? :eek: I cannot imagine it being allowed to take place at an ROTC unit. My DS has heard multiple stories of cadets in AROTC being kicked out for 1 MIP, or trespassing ( while intoxicated), not passing an AFPT and many other things. IF these things are taking place at an SMC then the law most certainly needs to be changed from "shall be appointed to per their standing in a national OML" like all other cadets. I would also say if someone has not passed an AFPT by their junior year, had a 1.7 GPA for 3 semesters or had honor code violations should have never made it to their junior year.
 
Heck, that stuff sometimes happens at the SA's as well. No institution is immune to this stuff.
 
This is from the Norwich Guidon. Based upon this I would say that if you to contract and serve in the Army that using the ROTC scholarship and contract ASAP would be to your advantage.

The article also explains how waivers for violations, civil and medical , are becoming very hard to get.


“We have a cap of 77 kids that we are allowed to contract within the Army (ROTC department at NU),” Smith said. “Right now, for example, we have more cadets who are qualified to contract than we are physically able to contract.” “(It is) really frustrating right now because we have a lot of great students who we would love to contract and might not be able to because of medical conditions or civil convictions,” Esquivel said.
 
Heck, that stuff sometimes happens at the SA's as well. No institution is immune to this stuff.

I have no doubt virtually every program has seen kids fail AFPT, have poor grades, honor violations and even trouble with the law, but is it the norm to allow these folks to hang around until they are juniors? I know nothing about SMC's, almost nothing about SA's and am only beginning to understand AROTC but I am under the impression these specific items/cadets would be dealt with quickly and severely in AROTC. Not to pick on SMC's, as I'm sure the vast majority of cadets graduating are excellent junior officers. My point is if this type of behavior is being condoned for their cadets and these cadets are graduating and then recommended for an AD slot then it may be time for the law to be changed so as to make the playing field more fair and take the decision out of the hands of one person (PMS).
 
DS attends a junior military college. I could tell you some stories you would not believe. He has been shocked by the "look the other way" mentality that apparently exists everywhere, not only with traditional cadets but with contracted rotc cadets as well.

At his school it is apparent that diversity plays a roll (not wanting to start anything with that comment). There have been some kicked out but they had to be multiple repeat offenders and/or just could not pass apft or LDAC.

Some have been disciplined, but thats kinda like NASCAR probation, "don't do it again, but if you do we'll give you another chance".

My take is they don't want to kick out every offender especially those that may be contracted or on scholarship because it makes them look bad as recruiters and they loose money from the scholarship. It's an empty bunk that otherwise would be filled and money coming in.
 
Dogstar510 said:
Not sure how this works but some advice would be great. My son got accepted to Norwich University Core of Cadets which was his first choice of schools. He has always been interested in becoming a Army officer. Right now he is a senior at private military high school with JROTC and has done well. Norwich has given him a generous Merit Scholarship and with some small amount of financial aid his four years there will be paid in full. He applied for his ROTC Scholarship and now just has to interview. My question is will he loose his Merit Scholarship if he chooses a ROTC Scholarship. That's one concern. He also wants to commission as an officer when he graduates. Can you combine the two? Will he loose out if he uses Merit Scholarship till he's a junior an then apply for a two year ROTC Scholarship? Any advice on what's the best way for him to achieve what's he wants-

Thanks All
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Dogstar,
If he wants to go to Norwich and doesn't get the four year scholarship out of high school, accept the merit $$ and go. If he does very well and exceeds in all areas he will be competitive for an on campus ROTC scholarship but in the meantime he has tuition paid by merit. If he doesn't get a scholarship within his first two years he can still compete for an active duty contract and still get tuition paid for my the merit money so he should be good to go...
Also if he gets a ROTC scholarship to Norwich, room and board will be paid by an internal Norwich scholarship for all ROTC scholarship awardees (who maintain a certain GPA). And if he gets the ROTC scholarship he won't keep (or need) the merit scholarship $.
 
sheriff3 said:
Heck, that stuff sometimes happens at the SA's as well. No institution is immune to this stuff.

I have no doubt virtually every program has seen kids fail AFPT, have poor grades, honor violations and even trouble with the law, but is it the norm to allow these folks to hang around until they are juniors? I know nothing about SMC's, almost nothing about SA's and am only beginning to understand AROTC but I am under the impression these specific items/cadets would be dealt with quickly and severely in AROTC. Not to pick on SMC's, as I'm sure the vast majority of cadets graduating are excellent junior officers. My point is if this type of behavior is being condoned for their cadets and these cadets are graduating and then recommended for an AD slot then it may be time for the law to be changed so as to make the playing field more fair and take the decision out of the hands of one person (PMS).
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No, it's not the norm. No one is going to get a contract not being able to pass the AFPT and/or with a 1.7 GPA. And it will be tough to stay in the Corp of Cadets. Most achieving a 1.7 GPA will not want to stay (Norwich); tuition is pretty pricey!
 
Im not so worried about him not making a good GPA or not passing his AFPT. He's dedicated and lives for this stuff. Either way his Merit scholarship is a given and a pretty generous one at that so either way he is set. He just wants to be an officer in the United States Army.

He meets all the criteria for an ROTC scholarship he just has to do his interview which I know is a little late. Im hoping worst case scenario if he doesnt get one this year he'll get one next year.

As far as maintining it. I think every cadet should honor what they signed up for and maintain that standard. It's a relfection on the Army and the school.
 
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