MOC Slate Winner: Athletes

Belisarius

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If a recruited athlete in your Congressional District accepts an appointment, do they count as the winner of your MOC's slate?
 
Only if they win the slate. Being a recruited athlete does not over rule the MOC nomination and slate process.

If they are truly a recruited athlete, they will compete for other nominations.
 
If a recruited athlete in your Congressional District accepts an appointment, do they count as the winner of your MOC's slate?
Not usually - recruited athletes by far are the largest category of Additional Appointees with WCS scores below the average. SA's are funded by taxpayers/voters and USMA and most MOCs are sensitive to any perceived favoritism based on athletic recruitment. It is possible for a recruited athlete to win the slate and fill one of the MOC's vacancies - some of the athletes are outstanding students. For the Class of 2016 - of 218 recruited athletes appointed only 36 were charged to congressional districts.

A recruited athlete only needs a nomination. It doesn't matter where they are ranked on the slate since they can receive an appointment as an Additional Appointee without consideration of order of merit. As such, MOCs are often advised to rank recruited athletes near the bottom of the slate in order to maximize appointments in the district. Of course, in a district with few candidates a recruited athlete may win the district by default.

A MOC that ranks a recruited athlete #1 may only get one candidate appointed. By ranking a qualified athlete #10 the MOC is guaranteed at least two appointments as long as #1 is qualified.
 
A MOC that ranks a recruited athlete #1 may only get one candidate appointed. By ranking a qualified athlete #10 the MOC is guaranteed at least two appointments as long as #1 is qualified.

Dumb question: how would a MOC know if a candidate for nomination is a recruited athlete? Does the SA tell them in advance, "Hey, we're recruiting this guy for sports, so please give him a nom, but keep him low on the list"?
 
A MOC that ranks a recruited athlete #1 may only get one candidate appointed. By ranking a qualified athlete #10 the MOC is guaranteed at least two appointments as long as #1 is qualified.

Dumb question: how would a MOC know if a candidate for nomination is a recruited athlete? Does the SA tell them in advance, "Hey, we're recruiting this guy for sports, so please give him a nom, but keep him low on the list"?

SA admissions and MOC staffs communicate about the nominating process including how to handle recruited athletes, but nominations are completely up to each MOC.

Athletic recruitment is a carefully controlled process at SA's in order to comply with NCAA rules. For USMA every candidate file has a specific space indicating whether or not a candidate is a recruited athlete - each FFR and RC know exactly which candidates are recruited.
 
Just being 'recruited' is no guarantee of an appointment. Many applicants talk with a coach, share a few emails, etc..... for many of them that has no impact on getting an appointment. Where you are on the coaches list of recruits can also change as others get recruited, change their mind about where to go to college, etc. Everyone being recruited is not a blue chip athlete. Many older threads on that.
 
Seems with all the information on many different threads, I find myself back where I started. Waiting without any real solid answers , ( except from nerd Dad) on the statistical odds of my Students position on the slates he is listed on. It is going to be a long couple of months .
 
Waiting without any real solid answers , ( except from nerd Dad) on the statistical odds of my Students position on the slates he is listed on..
And, honestly, those odds were just a silly attempt to put some kind of order on this seemingly random process. :)
 
Seems with all the information on many different threads, I find myself back where I started. Waiting without any real solid answers , ( except from nerd Dad) on the statistical odds of my Students position on the slates he is listed on. It is going to be a long couple of months .
A candidate will rarely have sufficient information to determine the odds of appointment in their particular case - too many variables that go beyond individual GPA and test scores.
 
You could have him ask his RC. They are usually pretty forthcoming with that information.
 
Seems with all the information on many different threads, I find myself back where I started. Waiting without any real solid answers , ( except from nerd Dad) on the statistical odds of my Students position on the slates he is listed on. It is going to be a long couple of months .
My DD was appointed this year despite there being two recruited football players in the district. One was a straight admit and one did go prep. So to answer your question, at least in my DD's specific case, they were given nominations by our congressman but ended up being charged elsewhere as there was only one slot available.
 
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Most recruited athletes compete to "win" the MOC spot, just like everyone else. They interview and get a nomination, and in a competitive slate, they either win the spot and are charged to that MOC, or they don't. If they don't, then they need to earn another nomination, or they will not receive the direct appointment. There are other ways to get a spot, including the Sup appointments, but WP admissions will still evaluate the athletes the same way they do other candidates, and will "assign" a charged MOC spot to athletes just like the others. So if the question is whether a "regular" candidate is competing for a spot against any athletes in his/her district, the answer is yes. If the next question is, all other things being equal, does the athlete have an advantage, the answer is also yes. Many athletes are admitted with scores which would not be deemed admissible but for the fact that they are an athlete. Athletes may also get a Prep school spot, which technically doesnt require a nomination, but WP prefers prep schoolers to have a nomination.

Keep in mind, WP is a very small school in terms of overall student-body. A very large percentage of the cadets are competitive athletes. WP has, I think, as many varsity level sports as any college anywhere, and beyond that there are high level club teams (like Crew), and others (like Boxing) which give the athletes "Authos", essentially getting them out of time consuming requirements, like drilling, other cadets are required to do. Point being, there are a bunch of recruited "athletes" at USMA, and they cant slide most of them through the back door. They compete for spots the same way others do.

Another VERY important note. MANY of the "jocks" at WP were some of the brightest, most capable and deserving candidates; who just happened also to be outstanding athletes. Do some get in who wouldnt have except for thier athletic accomplishments? For sure; but those are more the exception than the rule. Most varsity athletes are exceptional in all areas of their lives, and more than hold their own academically. Trust me; the Corps of Cadets is a very impressive group of young men and women.
 
Most recruited athletes compete to "win" the MOC spot, just like everyone else. They interview and get a nomination, and in a competitive slate, they either win the spot and are charged to that MOC, or they don't. If they don't, then they need to earn another nomination, or they will not receive the direct appointment. There are other ways to get a spot, including the Sup appointments, but WP admissions will still evaluate the athletes the same way they do other candidates, and will "assign" a charged MOC spot to athletes just like the others. So if the question is whether a "regular" candidate is competing for a spot against any athletes in his/her district, the answer is yes. If the next question is, all other things being equal, does the athlete have an advantage, the answer is also yes. Many athletes are admitted with scores which would not be deemed admissible but for the fact that they are an athlete. Athletes may also get a Prep school spot, which technically doesnt require a nomination, but WP prefers prep schoolers to have a nomination.

This is not completely true. There are two different types of recruited athletes in the process. The special ones are often called "Blue Chips". No one knows the numbers but it is safe to assume that the Football team has more than say the Golf team. These applicants do not compete on MOC slates and in normal process. As long as the meet the minimum, they are offered an appointment. If they do not meet the minimums, they are sent to prep school. The academy uses a Superintendent nomination for them. These athletes typically are strong recruits that have little chance of winning a slate. They have no impact on another applicants chances for admission.

Other athletes may have talked with the coaches, but do not get any special help with the admission process. They do get a extra points in the WCS calculation for being recruited and they will also probably max the athletic section of the WCS, but they compete the same way on their nomination slates. If they do not win the slate or rank the top 150 on the NWL, they will not get an offer.

So for the OP and others reading, the process is still what you make it. You control your own destiny and need to put your best foot forward. Your best chance of gaining admission is to win your congressional slate and not worry about what other candidates are doing.
 
Most recruited athletes compete to "win" the MOC spot, just like everyone else. They interview and get a nomination, and in a competitive slate, they either win the spot and are charged to that MOC, or they don't. If they don't, then they need to earn another nomination, or they will not receive the direct appointment. There are other ways to get a spot, including the Sup appointments, but WP admissions will still evaluate the athletes the same way they do other candidates, and will "assign" a charged MOC spot to athletes just like the others. So if the question is whether a "regular" candidate is competing for a spot against any athletes in his/her district, the answer is yes. If the next question is, all other things being equal, does the athlete have an advantage, the answer is also yes. Many athletes are admitted with scores which would not be deemed admissible but for the fact that they are an athlete. Athletes may also get a Prep school spot, which technically doesnt require a nomination, but WP prefers prep schoolers to have a nomination.

This is not completely true. There are two different types of recruited athletes in the process. The special ones are often called "Blue Chips". No one knows the numbers but it is safe to assume that the Football team has more than say the Golf team. These applicants do not compete on MOC slates and in normal process. As long as the meet the minimum, they are offered an appointment. If they do not meet the minimums, they are sent to prep school. The academy uses a Superintendent nomination for them. These athletes typically are strong recruits that have little chance of winning a slate. They have no impact on another applicants chances for admission.

Other athletes may have talked with the coaches, but do not get any special help with the admission process. They do get a extra points in the WCS calculation for being recruited and they will also probably max the athletic section of the WCS, but they compete the same way on their nomination slates. If they do not win the slate or rank the top 150 on the NWL, they will not get an offer.

So for the OP and others reading, the process is still what you make it. You control your own destiny and need to put your best foot forward. Your best chance of gaining admission is to win your congressional slate and not worry about what other candidates are doing.
Don't mean to challenge, but I can attest to the fact that, although the "blue chip" recruited athletes (including the one I know personally who was heavily recruited for football) are, as you say are essentially promised a spot, either a direct appointment, if they meet minimum requirements, or a prep-school otherwise, they still compete for an MOC slot. The kid I know was guaranteed a spot early, and was told he would either earn a direct appointment or be sent to the prep school. His math scores were questionable, but it looks like he is going to be a direct appointment. He interviewed and competed for a MOC spot, and if he was not the winner of his MOC slot, a spot would have been found, presumably one of the superintendent spots. WP would prefer to us "non-special" spots on athletes when they can, as the alternatives (prep school or Sup appointments) are limited, and frankly they don't want the football team to consist of players who were solely admitted under "special circumstances".

The kid I know got several visits from Army football coaches at his school. We know the family well. My wife works at the school and the coach saw the picture she had of our Cadet son and they chatted for a while. The process of WP "blue chip" recruiting is actually a bit more complicated that what any of us are discussing, but this is a general summary. Interestingly though, FFR's are told to leave recruited athletes out of what they do to and for regular candidates, unless specifically asked to do something in particular (like help with DODMERB).
 
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It is not uncommon for the blue chip athlete to be excluded from consideration as the slate winner. There are hundreds of Additional Appointee appointments available and that athlete only needs a nomination.

A MOC that does allow a blue chip athlete to win the slate isn't very savvy politically. It can limit the number of appointments in the district and cause unfavorable publicity. The last thing a MOC wants is a constituent angry because they believe their kid was far more qualified than the athlete that won the slate, especially when that situation is so easily avoided.
 
My DS MOC had no idea he was a recruited athlete and neither did his Admissions (ALO) when he interviewed with him. Maybe AFA does things differently than WP?
I can tell you that 3 kids from my son's HS Class this year will be at the AFA. 1 Direct Entry and 2 via Prep 2 were Athletes one NARP (non-athletic regular person) The breakdown: 1 Athlete Direct Entry 1 Athlete Prep 1 NARP Prep - by the way all with Stellar overall packages All 3 received NOMS from our MOC the others may have also had additional noms (DS didn't ask them) The point is, don't give up. You have no idea at the end of the day who or what your real competition is and until the fat lady sings out with her email of the TWE.. it ain't over
 
My DS MOC had no idea he was a recruited athlete and neither did his Admissions (ALO) when he interviewed with him. Maybe AFA does things differently than WP?
I can tell you that 3 kids from my son's HS Class this year will be at the AFA. 1 Direct Entry and 2 via Prep 2 were Athletes one NARP (non-athletic regular person) The breakdown: 1 Athlete Direct Entry 1 Athlete Prep 1 NARP Prep - by the way all with Stellar overall packages All 3 received NOMS from our MOC the others may have also had additional noms (DS didn't ask them) The point is, don't give up. You have no idea at the end of the day who or what your real competition is and until the fat lady sings out with her email of the TWE.. it ain't over
You're right - there is no way for candidates to know the status of other candidates.

Surprising that the ALO didn't know about a recruited athlete. NCAA rules are very strict about contacts. For USMA FFR's are specifically told not to contact a recruited athlete and the candidate record specifically identifies whether a candidate is or isn't a recruited athlete.

Each MOC is different. A lot depends on the knowledge and experience of the MOC staff and nominating committee and how active the RC and FFR are in communicating with MOC staff.
 
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