MOC slates that reopen late in the game

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A super moderator's posting doesn't carry any additional creditablity than any other poster with similiar track record. A major difference between myself and a supermoderator is being able to take action when someone violates the forum rule. If I think someone is violating a forum rule, the only thing I can do is complain, whereas the super moderator can stop the discussion or I guess even suspend someone. Being a super moderator does not make him or her an expert on what's right or wrong.

Again, this is beyond making a choice, it's about changing your choice.

Which is the right of the winner to accept the appointment and then choose to decline the appointment. They have WON that right as the clear WINNER!
I still can not understand WHY this is so important to the posters who are angry that the Candidate accepted their Appointment that they earned and then later decided to decline.
You would think the next in line for an appointment could be from their congressional slate. But if they are not the best candidate with the best WCS one could argue that the person from the NWL with a higher WCS is possibly a better candidate.
I think the main issue is that if a candidate "won" their district spot for the appointment, accepts it and then later declines it, then the feeling is that the that spot may go to the national pool, rather than going to the next person on the local slate. I don't know, for sure, that there if the appointee never accepts the appointment, if when he/she declines it, that it is more likely go to the "local" candidate who has the next highest WCS, but some people feel that it would be more likely. If a candidate doesn't have the highest WCS on a national level, they might get the spot, but if they keep it at the local level, then it would mean they get in. We know that no spot will ever go unfilled, but where that spot comes from may be the issue. None-the-less, why accept the slot if you aren't 100% sure, when you would have time to wait if you are uncertain?

Two points
#1 Shouldn't the most qualified get in regardless of their locality?

#2 Why accept...BECAUSE YOU EARNED THAT RIGHT.
Sorry we just seem to disagree. Best of luck to all of you.
 
The way the rules are written is that if a candidate off a MOC's slate turns down an appointment AND the slate is not ranked (i.e. 1,2,3,...) the academy may or may not (the academy's discretion and no reason needs to be given) go back to that slate for a replacement. If the slate is RANKED then the academy MUST go back and take the #2 person. We have seen this happen both ways numerous times over the years in our state.
 
Which is the right of the winner to accept the appointment and then choose to decline the appointment. They have WON that right as the clear WINNER!
I still can not understand WHY this is so important to the posters who are angry that the Candidate accepted their Appointment that they earned and then later decided to decline.
You would think the next in line for an appointment could be from their congressional slate. But if they are not the best candidate with the best WCS one could argue that the person from the NWL with a higher WCS is possibly a better candidate.


Two points
#1 Shouldn't the most qualified get in regardless of their locality?

#2 Why accept...BECAUSE YOU EARNED THAT RIGHT.
Sorry we just seem to disagree. Best of luck to all of you.
Yea you also have the "right" to do it but *edit* if the only reason you accept it is "meh, might as well" I honestly don't know what you mean when you say you have the right, like its some sort of God given choice when in reality it's just the ability to accept it, which is a promise to attend in my eyes. I declined my scholarship so someone else could have it, does that mean I had the right to take it away from that one guy who was one spot a way? No because I'm not going to do that to someone if I know them or not. Just because you can do something doesn't make it moral or just in any way.


2019 WestPoint class appointee

Recipient of 4 year army rotc scholarship.
 
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There are 2 different situations that folks are talking about in this thread
1) getting an offer and declining
2) getting an offer, accepting the offer and then declining.

RE: 1) getting an offer and declining
If a candidate gets an offer off the MOC slate and declines it, then the next fully qualified candidate on the slate will get the offer. If they decline, the next will get the offer on down the list until someone accepts. However, I have heard that the longer a candidate takes to make a decision, it may make it harder for admissions to offer off that slate to fill that slot.

Re: 2) getting an offer, accepting the offer and then decline.
I believe this is the situation that 'parent' is addressing. In this situation, to the best of my knowledge (this is PhD level admissions stuff ), Admissions is not obligated to go back to the slate and fill that spot because they have had a candidate accept, in essence, fill that spot. I could be wrong and I hope that those with their PhD in Admissions will correct me if I am. It doesn't mean they won't ever go back to the slate and get the next candidate, it's just that they are not obligated to.

parent - I don't know anything about admissions for any SA except USMA. It could be that the advise you got to - accept all appointments and then decline the ones you don't want - was said bc that is the way their SA does things. It could be that their SA won't hold a spot unless you accept. I don't know, but for USMA, you have the spot until a) you decline or b) the deadline has passed.
As far as the slot winner having the right 'to accept the appointment and then choose to decline the appointment', well yes, you can do that but I think the sentiment of some of the folks on here is that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
 
Parent I think we should just agree to disagree and move on, nothing will change either of our minds so it's best we just forget it altogether. I see the reason you believe that and I hope you see why I disagree along with several others.


2019 WestPoint class appointee

Recipient of 4 year army rotc scholarship.
 
just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

This... There is a big difference between changing your mind after accepting an appointment VS accepting multiple appointments.

Personally, I believe the latter is greedy at best and close to lying.

Do your due diligence up front, so that when the offer comes the decision between academies is clear.

Its not like you are holding out for better scholarship offers when dealing with the service academies.

The USMA cadets have a term for someone who looks after themselves at the expense of another. Which is probably why "parent" is seeing some indignation at their comments.

From another section:
(BTW my daughter received an appointment to all 3 academies.)

I have no horse in this race, my DS is about to graduate. But I have to admit my first thought after reading your comments here and in other sections is "pick navy, pick navy". ☺ I'm sure your DD is a great young adult. And luckily (for my DS and others), most of us on the forum try not to judge the kid by their parent's forum comments.

Then again, did you hear about the gloom period on the Hudson? And all the nice restaurants in Annapolis? ☺
 
^^Yes, but one must consider the beautiful view of the Rocky Mountains and state-of-the-art facilities in Colorado Springs. :angel:
 
Officially, there is no one size fits all scenario that describes what USMA will do with a decline or a turn around (accepts first and then declines later). There are a couple of generalities that are handy:

1) a numbered alternate list and a MOC that follows up is the sure way that USMA will backfill a spot
2) the strength of a backfill relative to improving the class in some measurable way (test scores, class composition, etc) relative to other possible candidates affects whether WP will take the next candidate on the slate absent the conditions of 1). There is no way that you or your FFR can see this. Your RC is lobbying for you to get the offer, but so are the other RCs for their candidates.
3) WP could inform the other SA or institution if you are a turn around. Essentially, when you accept, you are committing to WP. If they want to make an issue of it, the other SA could revoke your offer. It is less likely if you are a highly qualified candidate and aren't malicious in your actions, but still, the potential exists.
4) never count on WP making a second offer in a district whether the initial offered candidate declines right away or is a turn around. Chances are by the time it comes through, the class is full enough and there is already someone else in the district offered or soon to be that they could use to fill the MOC's spot (USMAPS, a Top 150 candidate, a recruited athlete, etc). The class isn't filled sequentially, but more like booking for an airplane in which there are multiple fare classes, different costs/WCS for those spots, and different declinations are expected at an aggregate level. When it goes well, the plane isn't oversold and there are no empty seats. This is to say, WP is not likely to "back" fill it at all let alone in WCS order as that one spot is spoken for in some fashion as they seek to fill all the spots in the class without going over as early as possible.
 
^^^^
There's the PhD explanation.
Moral of the story - if a MOC wants to have a much control over who gets his/her slot, they will submit a ranked slate, which I would think is very unusual.
 
This... There is a big difference between changing your mind after accepting an appointment VS accepting multiple appointments.

Personally, I believe the latter is greedy at best and close to lying.

Do your due diligence up front, so that when the offer comes the decision between academies is clear.

Its not like you are holding out for better scholarship offers when dealing with the service academies.

The USMA cadets have a term for someone who looks after themselves at the expense of another. Which is probably why "parent" is seeing some indignation at their comments.
From another section:


I have no horse in this race, my DS is about to graduate. But I have to admit my first thought after reading your comments here and in other sections is "pick navy, pick navy". ☺ I'm sure your DD is a great young adult. And luckily (for my DS and others), most of us on the forum try not to judge the kid by their parent's forum comments.

Then again, did you hear about the gloom period on the Hudson? And all the nice restaurants in Annapolis? ☺
Lying come on now! That is a little harsh!

As you stated I will not judge your child on the basis of your being their parent. But I will pray for them.
 
Lying come on now! That is a little harsh!

I said "close to lying", as I personally feel it would be deceptive.

Accept: . v.tr. 1. a. To answer affirmatively: accept an invitation. b. To agree to take responsibility

Our MOC asked DS if he intended to go to USMA if nominated, because otherwise he would give it to someone else. RC had similar conversation.

I get that you want the best for your DD, and think that was the right path. Just also understand that as parents we also want the best for our kids. And as parents of USMA cadets we want team players as teammates for the cadets. Who are not out for themselves.

In the cadet world that means don't do things that disadvantage others. Don't cherry pick MRE's. Just pick one. Don't take a 2nd chicken piece until the whole table has at least one. Don't grab all the good cereal. Then carry through the same approach with the big things.

DS narrowly dodged a board for forgetting to cite a source in a paper for a book he read outside the class. Luckily the prof realized it was an oversight and not intentional or plagiarism. But that's how serious USMA takes honesty & integrity.

So "yes, I accept this appointment" means something.

I'm trying to explain, not judge, as you seem indignant at other parents response.

As for praying for me and my child, please do. I know I need it!
 
I said "close to lying", as I personally feel it would be deceptive.

Accept: . v.tr. 1. a. To answer affirmatively: accept an invitation. b. To agree to take responsibility

Our MOC asked DS if he intended to go to USMA if nominated, because otherwise he would give it to someone else. RC had similar conversation.

I get that you want the best for your DD, and think that was the right path. Just also understand that as parents we also want the best for our kids. And as parents of USMA cadets we want team players as teammates for the cadets. Who are not out for themselves.

In the cadet world that means don't do things that disadvantage others. Don't cherry pick MRE's. Just pick one. Don't take a 2nd chicken piece until the whole table has at least one. Don't grab all the good cereal. Then carry through the same approach with the big things.

DS narrowly dodged a board for forgetting to cite a source in a paper for a book he read outside the class. Luckily the prof realized it was an oversight and not intentional or plagiarism. But that's how serious USMA takes honesty & integrity.

So "yes, I accept this appointment" means something.

I'm trying to explain, not judge, as you seem indignant at other parents response.

As for praying for me and my child, please do. I know I need it!


I disagree with you and your stance. There was no deceiving and no one was harmed by the decision to accept the appointment(s).
The most deserving person will take the spot vacated. No one was disadvantaged. I would counter and say the person who fills this slot is the most deserving of the appointment with the highest WCS.

I am not feeling angry or mad at anyone on this site. They can all have their opinions and feelings, just as I can. We just seem to disagree on this matter.

I do not care for your comments about pick navy pick navy or the hudson or nice Annapolis restaurants. Totally out of bounds, IMHO.
The kids just simply followed the recommendation of one of the two moderators who have responded to this thread. (But with all of your you probably already knew that.)
The out for yourself not a teammate comment is also out of bounds. What do you know about my kid or myself? My guess is not much.
 
There's no point in continuing this thread.
Everyone has had their say and no one is changing anyone's opinions on the subject. :argue1:
If anyone wants to continue this discussion, please do it via PM.

The kids just simply followed the recommendation of one of the two moderators who have responded to this thread.
:confused2: I am the only moderator that has responded to this thread. :confused2:

:lock:
 
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