national scholarship vs. 0-9R + SMP for daughter who wants to go reserve duty

[BlewSkies81]

My daughter is in the middle of her AROTC application for the second board. She is planning to major in Chinese language/Global Studies and we have visited 4 public universities with the DoD sponsored Chinese Flagship programs + their AROTC units - our most recent was UMN in the Twin Cities and she LOVED it.

With the Chinese Flagship program she will complete a 5th year called Capstone year which she plans to do at the Defense Language Institute (this is a specific flagship program and not the regular DLI that mid career officers do). One of the reasons (among many) she likes AROTC is distinctly because of the option to go reserves. She really wants to use her Chinese fluency and will likely be interested in gov't agency employment after she completes the year at DLI and commissions into the army. She thinks this will be the best of both worlds for her.

In light of that, we met with the SSG in charge of campus recruiting at UMN and she laid out an entire host of possibilities to pay for school. She said the 0-9R + SMP is such a good deal that some of their cadets forgo their national scholarship in favor of graduating debt-free + getting paid a little extra on top.

I'm wondering what benefit the national scholarship would give my daughter other than the option to go active duty? Even if she wins a 4 year scholarship (I think she is on the bubble between a 3 and 4) that still leaves room and board for 4 years. If the end result is that she will commission as a reserve officer, why would we pay 60K over 4 years for room and board when the 0-9R + SMP will cover all 4 years + room and board + a little more on top? Am I missing something here?

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Enter "Please outline the strengths/ benefits of Army ROTC vs the SMP guard reserve scholarships" into Chatgpt and it nicely spells out the benefits of each.

Room/ board cost - SOME Schools with AROTC (not AROTC itself) provide funding for AROTC scholarship winners, while they are on the scholarship (all 3 or all 4 years). Also the ROTC scholarship can be used for EITHER tuition/ fees or as a set stipend for room/board. so get a spreadsheet together to confirm what's best for you in each option. Honestly my DS MADE money going to college via ROTC scholarship when that money for room/board was given to him directly each semester, when he lived off-campus.

What gives me pause about SMP is the drill weekends when you're in college and the at-times limited options on what MOS to serve with both for training and after commissioning. But good on you for looking at the big picture/ asking great questions to confirm what's best for you. Hopefully you'll work that all out so you know what you want to do if you get a 3 year, 4 year or other options in other branches or w Army. Certainly I'd confirm that you'd be allowed to do the 5th year capstone in AROTC before serving.

Good luck to you.

 

[Capt MJ]

@BlewSkies81

Have you researched the target schools to determine if they offer additional benefits to ROTC scholarship winners? Sometimes they offer free room and board, housing scholarships, grants, etc.

Army ROTC scholarships can be used for either tuition or room and board, I believe. Some strategically use the AROTC scholarship to pay for room and board and use other earned scholarships or merit aid for tuition. Of course, FAFSA should also be employed to determine what makes sense.

I mention these as admin points to clear up for her comparative analysis.

Now, some general thoughts about active duty. And, the decision about what feels best to her should determine her choice, assuming she is doing a thorough head-heart-gut short and long-term analysis.

Active duty as a junior officer is priceless. Rapidly advancing beyond age-peers, junior officers are responsible and accountable for people and resources. They learn to function as part of a team but more importantly, how to lead. They practice critical thinking in high-pressure situations, They must think, plan and execute strategically and tactically. They solve complex problems. They develop self-discipline, resilience, can-do traits. The list is endless - and why former junior officers are highly valued by the private sector workplace. And it can be immensely rewarding and downright fun to be a JO doing cool things around the world.

The Reserve officer path, particularly from the get-go, is fine in itself and for its purpose. But it is not the same as putting in the time as a 365/24/7 active duty JO with a full-time job, gaining street cred.

Your daughter, with her skills and brain, would indeed have no problem getting hired. Those skills combined with AD JO experience would make her instantly more valuable as a proven performer in a cleared workplace. It’s a force multiplier. But she has to want that hard life of relentless service punctuated by sheer, joyous and-they-are-paying-me-to-do-this-moments. If she does not want to challenge herself in that particular way, that is an okay decision too.

Back in the last century, I had earned a prestigious grad school fellowship to a known-name school. All paid for plus a living stipend and grad student apartment. In spring of my senior year, I realized I had been restless for months, since I had returned from a semester abroad as a junior. I felt I had places to go, people to meet and things to do in a way that was different from a school setting. That spring, I met Navy officer recruiters (aviators in their summer whites) at a resource table outside the campus P.O. Cutting to the chase, I kicked over the traces, committed to Navy OCS that summer, withdrew from the fellowship. I liked the idea of service, professional development, seeing the world, challenging myself, doing something truly hard and different. Parents were shocked. Professors aghast. Except for two. The two were both combat-experienced Army officers who had used their VA benefits for education and a life in academics. One was STEM and the other not. They both said, “The Navy will be the making of you. You will be a different person a year from now, strong, confident, mature. If you want to come back to academics after your AD obligation time, we will help you - grad schools value students with real life experience. But be open to all paths.” They were right. I learned I could be a leader. I surprised myself by what I learned to do and overcome and realized I had a talent for. I was 20 years old, living in Spain (see “joyous” above), leading a division of 65. I was leading people, managing money and things, creating and executing plans, solving problems, growing professionally and performing operations management. The command presence and executive skills I built the foundation for as an AD JO and developed further as a senior officer - priceless. Opened the door to opportunity in the private sector for my follow-on career.

Your daughter has no bad choices. It all depends how she wants to grow.

Long post. I wanted to address qualitative issues rather than quantitative.

 

[BlewSkies81]

Enter "Please outline the strengths/ benefits of Army ROTC vs the SMP guard reserve scholarships" into Chatgpt and it nicely spells out the benefits of each.

Room/ board cost - SOME Schools with AROTC (not AROTC itself) provide funding for AROTC scholarship winners, while they are on the scholarship (all 3 or all 4 years). Also the ROTC scholarship can be used for EITHER tuition/ fees or as a set stipend for room/board. so get a spreadsheet together to confirm what's best for you in each option. Honestly my DS MADE money going to college via ROTC scholarship when that money for room/board was given to him directly each semester, when he lived off-campus.

What gives me pause about SMP is the drill weekends when you're in college and the at-times limited options on what MOS to serve with both for training and after commissioning. But good on you for looking at the big picture/ asking great questions to confirm what's best for you. Hopefully you'll work that all out so you know what you want to do if you get a 3 year, 4 year or other options in other branches or w Army. Certainly I'd confirm that you'd be allowed to do the 5th year capstone in AROTC before serving.

Good luck to you.

Definitely all good things to think about. Two of the other Chinese Flagship schools she has applied to does have extra incentives Ole Miss will pay for your freshman year + your room and board all 4 years which is incredible but she just doesn't feel at home in the deep south. In addition, Arizona State will allow you to transfer your merit aid to pay for room + board if you win an ARTOC scholarship. These are great options for her but UMN is her number 1 choice right now. IU is her second choice and neither of these public universities offer extra incentives.

ROTC actively recruits students into the language flagships so DoD actually approves and pays for the capstone year whether you go out of the country for intensive language immersion or choose to attend DLI.

 

[BlewSkies81]

@BlewSkies81

Have you researched the target schools to determine if they offer additional benefits to ROTC scholarship winners? Sometimes they offer free room and board, housing scholarships, grants, etc.

Army ROTC scholarships can be used for either tuition or room and board, I believe. Some strategically use the AROTC scholarship to pay for room and board and use other earned scholarships or merit aid for tuition. Of course, FAFSA should also be employed to determine what makes sense.

I mention these as admin points to clear up for her comparative analysis.

Now, some general thoughts about active duty. And, the decision about what feels best to her should determine her choice, assuming she is doing a thorough head-heart-gut short and long-term analysis.

Active duty as a junior officer is priceless. Rapidly advancing beyond age-peers, junior officers are responsible and accountable for people and resources. They learn to function as part of a team but more importantly, how to lead. They practice critical thinking in high-pressure situations, They must think, plan and execute strategically and tactically. They solve complex problems. They develop self-discipline, resilience, can-do traits. The list is endless - and why former junior officers are highly valued by the private sector workplace. And it can be immensely rewarding and downright fun to be a JO doing cool things around the world.

The Reserve officer path, particularly from the get-go, is fine in itself and for its purpose. But it is not the same as putting in the time as a 365/24/7 active duty JO with a full-time job, gaining street cred.

Your daughter, with her skills and brain, would indeed have no problem getting hired. Those skills combined with AD JO experience would make her instantly more valuable as a proven performer in a cleared workplace. It’s a force multiplier. But she has to want that hard life of relentless service punctuated by sheer, joyous and-they-are-paying-me-to-do-this-moments. If she does not want to challenge herself in that particular way, that is an okay decision too.

Back in the last century, I had earned a prestigious grad school fellowship to a known-name school. All paid for plus a living stipend and grad student apartment. In spring of my senior year, I realized I had been restless for months, since I had returned from a semester abroad as a junior. I felt I had places to go, people to meet and things to do in a way that was different from a school setting. That spring, I met Navy officer recruiters (aviators in their summer whites) at a resource table outside the campus P.O. Cutting to the chase, I kicked over the traces, committed to Navy OCS that summer, withdrew from the fellowship. I liked the idea of service, professional development, seeing the world, challenging myself, doing something truly hard and different. Parents were shocked. Professors aghast. Except for two. The two were both combat-experienced Army officers who had used their VA benefits for education and a life in academics. One was STEM and the other not. They both said, “The Navy will be the making of you. You will be a different person a year from now, strong, confident, mature. If you want to come back to academics after your AD obligation time, we will help you - grad schools value students with real life experience. But be open to all paths.” They were right. I learned I could be a leader. I surprised myself by what I learned to do and overcome and realized I had a talent for. I was 20 years old, living in Spain (see “joyous” above), leading a division of 65. I was leading people, managing money and things, creating and executing plans, solving problems, growing professionally and performing operations management. The command presence and executive skills I built the foundation for as an AD JO and developed further as a senior officer - priceless. Opened the door to opportunity in the private sector for my follow-on career.

Your daughter has no bad choices. It all depends how she wants to grow.

Long post. I wanted to address qualitative issues rather than quantitative.

Thank you for your post and sharing your experience. We do know which of her target schools offer incentives - unfortunately the top 2 do not. She really wants to use her language skills on a daily basis post graduation and she's been told that due to "needs of the military" those skills are unlikely to have a use early on in her officer career. Yes, she will get paid a monthly stipend for her fluency but after DLI I wonder if she will feel let down by not utilizing her skill. The Chinese Flagship directors we've spoken to say agencies in DC are knocking down their doors to recruit their students years before graduation. She's got to decide if being an AD Army officer or using her Chinese is the top priority. For a school like UMN or IU a 3 year scholarship still leaves her on the hook for about 100K over 4 years which is crazy to me.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Thank you for your post and sharing your experience. We do know which of her target schools offer incentives - unfortunately the top 2 do not. She really wants to use her language skills on a daily basis post graduation and she's been told that due to "needs of the military" those skills are unlikely to have a use early on in her officer career. Yes, she will get paid a monthly stipend for her fluency but after DLI I wonder if she will feel let down by not utilizing her skill. The Chinese Flagship directors we've spoken to say agencies in DC are knocking down their doors to recruit their students years before graduation. She's got to decide if being an AD Army officer or using her Chinese is the top priority. For a school like UMN or IU a 3 year scholarship still leaves her on the hook for about 100K over 4 years which is crazy to me.

I admire how thoughtfully you’re approaching your options as a team.

I'll share something personal - Our family’s top priority has been helping our kids graduate without significant debt. Many students take on $200K+ in loans at “dream schools,” Vandy, NYU, et al. and that burden lasts for decades. There are plenty of universities where you can major in Chinese, participate in Army ROTC, and graduate with far less than $100K in debt. I’d recommend exploring those options as well — including schools that offer strong merit aid, in-state tuition advantages, or room and board support with ROTC — since those can make the difference between graduating with heavy debt or none at all. You do you and all, but since you're reflecting on this, I'll throw my .02 cents in on that option. Good luck and let us know how it works out

 

[tortiemilo]

Just wanted to jump in and say my daughter is a 4yr scholarship winner attending UM Twin Cities. Feel free to reach out with any questions (she is engineering/physics so won't know too much about linguistics, however) about the U, life in MN, and/or the unit. Good luck to your daughter as she navigates school choices/ROTC/leaving home. Also, ROTC/UM does not pay anything toward housing if you choose the scholarship to pay for tuition (bummer b/c my daughter spent her first year at UVM where the school picked up housing/meals for 4 year ROTC scholarship recipients, so she was there on a full ride, which was sweet; but she wanted a bigger school/engineering program.)

 

[BlewSkies81]

Just wanted to jump in and say my daughter is a 4yr scholarship winner attending UM Twin Cities. Feel free to reach out with any questions (she is engineering/physics so won't know too much about linguistics, however) about the U, life in MN, and/or the unit. Good luck to your daughter as she navigates school choices/ROTC/leaving home. Also, ROTC/UM does not pay anything toward housing if you choose the scholarship to pay for tuition (bummer b/c my daughter spent her first year at UVM where the school picked up housing/meals for 4 year ROTC scholarship recipients, so she was there on a full ride, which was sweet; but she wanted a bigger school/engineering program.)

That's amazing! How does she like it so far? Yes there are other school options that would offer better incentives but she loves UMN and everything it has to offer. She is really thinking more about reserve duty which is why we are torn right now between the high school scholarship (which she has yet to win) and the 0-9R +SMP - guess we'll see how it all shakes out come spring. She is also competing for a gap year program thru the State Dept to spend a year in Taiwan studying intensive Mandarin - it's the same program she won two summers ago to study in Taiwan but this one is an entire academic year. We've been told she can defer her enrollment to the U and also defer a high school scholarship if she gets one. Kinda unorthodox but she really loves Mandarin.

 

[BlewSkies81]

I admire how thoughtfully you’re approaching your options as a team.

I'll share something personal - Our family’s top priority has been helping our kids graduate without significant debt. Many students take on $200K+ in loans at “dream schools,” Vandy, NYU, et al. and that burden lasts for decades. There are plenty of universities where you can major in Chinese, participate in Army ROTC, and graduate with far less than $100K in debt. I’d recommend exploring those options as well — including schools that offer strong merit aid, in-state tuition advantages, or room and board support with ROTC — since those can make the difference between graduating with heavy debt or none at all. You do you and all, but since you're reflecting on this, I'll throw my .02 cents in on that option. Good luck and let us know how it works out

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. There's absolutely zero reason to go into that much debt so we are trying to explore all the options. She told me she wishes she could pick up Ole Miss and plant it somewhere in the midwest. I went to Vandy (before the costs ballooned to what they are today) and it was southern but NOTHING like Ole Miss and my daughter is just adamantly opposed. Once we toured UMN and talked to AROTC there she was hooked. I talked to her tonight about drilling for SMP and she said she thought it would be worth it to go to the school she wants to.

 

[GrilledCheese94]

My son was looking into this very path, marrying engineering with Mandarin studies, when he was looking at URI. If I remember correctly, that program has had experience with traditional ROTC scholarship cadets fully participating in the program, to include any required overseas exchange programs.

URI also offered my son a significant academic financial aid award which, when coupled with the ROTC scholarship, would've resulted in our only expenses out-of-pocket being incidentals - laundry money, pizza money, etc. URI is an attractive school in so many ways, especailly with out-of-state academic financial aid.

It might help contacting the ROTC cadre at URI to get their take on the program since it's such a unique opportunity. The URI Flagship Program staff were also extremely helpful in explaining the complexities of the program.

Our son would've happily chose this program at URI, but he ultimately chose NROTC over ROTC in the end. One would think that being on the water only a stones throw from Newport and the Naval War College would see a market for NROTC!