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National Waiting List
- Thread starter riroka
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According to all the info in our MALO training, by law, they MUST make 150 offers from the NWL in WCS (rank) order. It says the remainder can be made in any manner desired, so I guess the remainder could be not offered if there are too many appointments from elsewhere somehow. But I haven't heard anything differently on those 150 at least.
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When do most people from the National Waiting List find out if they're in or not?
We just were at the Founders day dinner. Both the admissions person and the malo said it a very bad year be on the list. The Superindedant of WestPoint made the same statement. Look like no appointment are being made of the list.
Wish we were given better news , those are the facts given to us
Wish we were given better news , those are the facts given to us
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oh, well that's pretty unfortunate news...
but i guess a year off wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. it might even be better!
I wonder why they aren't sending out rejections letters already then...I mean, if there are 700 people on the list (this is the number that has been going around, I don't know if it is true), why not tell the latter majority or half that they haven't made it?
Also, did they specifically say, "there are no more appointments being made from the list" ???
but i guess a year off wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. it might even be better!
I wonder why they aren't sending out rejections letters already then...I mean, if there are 700 people on the list (this is the number that has been going around, I don't know if it is true), why not tell the latter majority or half that they haven't made it?
Also, did they specifically say, "there are no more appointments being made from the list" ???
There is still a NWL because you never know what takes place over the next few months.
Currently there are more offers out there than spots in class. The acceptance rate has been extremely high.
I certainly don't want to be the person who states "there are no more appointments being made from this list". I know what we've been told by our admissions person and what I heard last night by admissions, the MALO and the superintendent of West Point.
It's never over till it's over and things could change. I wouldn't give up but I would have a Plan B in place.
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I have no idea. Historically it always works out. Maybe a MALO on here can answer that question.
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Has there ever been a year (in recent history) where there were no offers made to those on the NWL?
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I'll be at USMA for a week of MALO/Field Force training next week. I'll be glad to share any information I gain there. My advice for anyone going to college if the importance of a plan B because you never know what's going to happen. My son accepted an offer of appointment to USAFA but we have money down holding a slot at Minnesota just in case. It's a sound investment.
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So, does anyone know the actual number of applicants? I'm getting curious about what the competition was like.
Also, anyone know if next year will be as competitive as this year?
Also, anyone know if next year will be as competitive as this year?
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What does it mean to be on the NWL?
Okay folks, disclaimers up front:
Just because I work in the USMA admissions office does not mean that this is the "party line." This is simply my attempt to explain to all of you where we're at in the class and what it means to get a letter like the one we're discussing. Don't bother quoting me to your Regional Commander or Field Force rep as though it's engraved in stone by lightning and just because you read it on the internet, it must be true
Because West Point utilizes a "rolling" admissions process, the slots (or seats or vacancies, or whatever term you wish to use) are filled throughout the application year, INCLUDING those slots for NWL candidates. This is why TIMING is as critical as the overall strength of your file... it is much better to have a completed file awaiting qualification and a nomination in September or October than it is to get everything done just prior to the deadline when we've already filled more than 80% of the class.
There are four "pieces to the puzzle" for an offer of admission:
Academic Qualification
Medical Qualification
Physical Fitness Qualification (aka the CFA)
A Nomination
Remember on that last one... Nomination does NOT equal an offer! There are up to 10 names submitted for each congressional/senatorial "vacancy" (they get 5 at any one time, or an average of one per year).
Once your file is complete (including the CFA) and you are medically cleared by DoDMERB, a Regional Commander will look at everything in your file and send you forward for qualification. Next, a random committee member will pull your file off the stack and do the same thing. Then it comes back to the admissions office and a different RC will do a "third check" to ensure everything is kosher... 3 sets of eyes all looking at your file and reaching the same conclusion, or resolving any discrepancies or disagreements with further dialogue. If you pass those three checks, your file is now "qualified." Congrats, you're one of only about 3,000 candidates out of the 13,000+ who started the process this year.
Unfortunately, we don't have room for all 3,000 of you... that's where the fourth piece of the puzzle comes in.
About 550 slots in the class will be filled by the congressional/senatorial/VP "vacancy winners." Those folks are sometimes designated as the PRINCIPAL nominee (i.e. Congressman Smith says "IF candidate Jones is qualified, he is my top choice, regardless of how you would rank my list of 10 names.") This will not save you if you fail the CFA or have crappy test scores, etc... you still have to be qualified first. Most of the time, the members of congress will simply submit an unranked list of 10 names and let us choose who we assess to be the most qualified candidate as the vacancy winner. Depending on how much info we have in the files of those 10 candidates, we may make that determination BEFORE the file completion deadline, which is why early file completion is so important!
Another 300 slots in the class will be filled by service-connected (aka "Presidential") nominees. 100 son/daughter of career military, some son/daughter of deceased on duty / 100% disabled vet / MOH winners, up to 85 active duty and 85 reserve (many of these are the prepsters) nominees, and up to 20 Jr. or Sr. ROTC nominees (many of these are the Civil Prep candidates). Again, these slots are filled throughout the year... if you are a PRESNOM candidate, get your doggone file completed! Your best shot is before the congressional nominations are published when the class is just starting to fill.
That means that the remaining 450 slots in a 1,300 person class come from the National Waiting List... those fully qualified candidates who received a congressional nomination but were NOT the vacancy winner. THIS is where our required-by-law class composition goals come into play: Scholar, Leader, Div I Athlete, Female, Soldier, or Minority (African American, Hispanic, or Native American), and this is how the admissions committee "fine-tunes" the class. Every candidate on the NWL has been qualified, so they can choose the candidates that help West Point to meet those goals or the candidates whose overall file strength is above a certain level. Many of those candidates will have Letters of Assurance... LOAs are great because they help us identify candidates who meet some of those goals early in the cycle and encourage them to complete their files. Once they do so and get qualified and get a nomination, even if they aren't the vacancy winner, they will be offered admission almost immediately... essentially filling the "waiting list" slots throughout the cycle. Even without an LOA, the committee will say, at certain points throughout the cycle, "Give us all the fully qualified & nominated candidates above xxxx level. You have one week to bring them to the committee." Again, that could happen BEFORE the file completion deadline, so if you were waiting until the last minute to take your fitness assessment or still working on getting Q-MED, you just missed the boat on that chance!
So now the answer to the question "what does it mean to be on the NWL?" Because of how large and how aggressive this class was about completing their files early, we put a lot of LOAs out there. Those are essentially commitments to the class. In addition, although we usually have around 80% of folks saying "yes" when they are offered admission, this year it is much higher for various reasons. With more outstanding commitments and more folks saying "yes," we are overcommitted and will bring in a very large class. This is why the numbers are being more aggressively culled than usual:
Oh, you got suspended or got a speeding ticket or something? Offer withdrawn.
You got poor grades on your senior yr transcript? Offer withdrawn.
Just now getting submitted for a new med waiver? Denied.
Didn't pass your CFA? Retest opportunity declined.
Didn't get your medical issues resolved by 15 April? Disqualified.
Didn't give us an answer to your offer of admission by 1 May? Withdrawn.
You didn't submit certain items in your file to us by the deadline (INCLUDING your 7th semester transcript)? File closed.
This also means that there will almost certainly NOT be any more "send us all fully Qualified & nominated candidates who meet xxxx or yyyy criteria" coming from the admissions committee. As a result:
ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY, ONLY CANDIDATES WHO WIN THEIR CONGRESSIONAL/SENATORIAL VACANCIES OR WHO HAVE LETTERS OF ASSURANCE WILL RECEIVE OFFERS FROM HERE ON OUT. This has been the state of affairs for a few weeks now.
Only your Regional Commander can tell you whether or not your congressional vacancy has been filled (i.e. someone higher on that list of 10 names than you has been offered admission and has accepted the offer). Many folks currently on the NWL are sitting just below a candidate who will win the vacancy IF they get medically qualified or IF they accept their offer of admission. If they decline, then we start going down the list and MAY get to you. They should not (I will not) tell you where you are on that list, only whether or not you still have a shot at it.
Sometime around the middle of May, you should receive final word about whether or not you will be coming off of the NWL or not. If not, AND if you applied for a 4-yr ROTC scholarship, AND if you selected that "ROTC consideration" checkbox on our application, AND you have yet to receive a decision from them, you stand an excellent chance of being selected. They will hold an additional scholarship board and review all of our "Qualified, but not Selected" names and pick many of you up.
A 4-year ROTC scholarship is not a "consolation prize" that's tossed out there because you didn't get selected for USMA. You apply for it just like you do for us, but they use the fact that we've already looked over your file and found you worthy (just didn't have room) to save them time in their own evaluation process... they basically take our word for it and select you based on our assessment. Obviously this does not happen 100% of the time, but your odds are excellent. Many folks who are QNS have already received ROTC scholarships before they ever get the "no-go" word from us.
I hope this helps to explain the process in more detail and clears up some misconceptions or misunderstandings.
Go Army!
-MAJ B.
Okay folks, disclaimers up front:
Just because I work in the USMA admissions office does not mean that this is the "party line." This is simply my attempt to explain to all of you where we're at in the class and what it means to get a letter like the one we're discussing. Don't bother quoting me to your Regional Commander or Field Force rep as though it's engraved in stone by lightning and just because you read it on the internet, it must be true
Because West Point utilizes a "rolling" admissions process, the slots (or seats or vacancies, or whatever term you wish to use) are filled throughout the application year, INCLUDING those slots for NWL candidates. This is why TIMING is as critical as the overall strength of your file... it is much better to have a completed file awaiting qualification and a nomination in September or October than it is to get everything done just prior to the deadline when we've already filled more than 80% of the class.
There are four "pieces to the puzzle" for an offer of admission:
Academic Qualification
Medical Qualification
Physical Fitness Qualification (aka the CFA)
A Nomination
Remember on that last one... Nomination does NOT equal an offer! There are up to 10 names submitted for each congressional/senatorial "vacancy" (they get 5 at any one time, or an average of one per year).
Once your file is complete (including the CFA) and you are medically cleared by DoDMERB, a Regional Commander will look at everything in your file and send you forward for qualification. Next, a random committee member will pull your file off the stack and do the same thing. Then it comes back to the admissions office and a different RC will do a "third check" to ensure everything is kosher... 3 sets of eyes all looking at your file and reaching the same conclusion, or resolving any discrepancies or disagreements with further dialogue. If you pass those three checks, your file is now "qualified." Congrats, you're one of only about 3,000 candidates out of the 13,000+ who started the process this year.
Unfortunately, we don't have room for all 3,000 of you... that's where the fourth piece of the puzzle comes in.
About 550 slots in the class will be filled by the congressional/senatorial/VP "vacancy winners." Those folks are sometimes designated as the PRINCIPAL nominee (i.e. Congressman Smith says "IF candidate Jones is qualified, he is my top choice, regardless of how you would rank my list of 10 names.") This will not save you if you fail the CFA or have crappy test scores, etc... you still have to be qualified first. Most of the time, the members of congress will simply submit an unranked list of 10 names and let us choose who we assess to be the most qualified candidate as the vacancy winner. Depending on how much info we have in the files of those 10 candidates, we may make that determination BEFORE the file completion deadline, which is why early file completion is so important!
Another 300 slots in the class will be filled by service-connected (aka "Presidential") nominees. 100 son/daughter of career military, some son/daughter of deceased on duty / 100% disabled vet / MOH winners, up to 85 active duty and 85 reserve (many of these are the prepsters) nominees, and up to 20 Jr. or Sr. ROTC nominees (many of these are the Civil Prep candidates). Again, these slots are filled throughout the year... if you are a PRESNOM candidate, get your doggone file completed! Your best shot is before the congressional nominations are published when the class is just starting to fill.
That means that the remaining 450 slots in a 1,300 person class come from the National Waiting List... those fully qualified candidates who received a congressional nomination but were NOT the vacancy winner. THIS is where our required-by-law class composition goals come into play: Scholar, Leader, Div I Athlete, Female, Soldier, or Minority (African American, Hispanic, or Native American), and this is how the admissions committee "fine-tunes" the class. Every candidate on the NWL has been qualified, so they can choose the candidates that help West Point to meet those goals or the candidates whose overall file strength is above a certain level. Many of those candidates will have Letters of Assurance... LOAs are great because they help us identify candidates who meet some of those goals early in the cycle and encourage them to complete their files. Once they do so and get qualified and get a nomination, even if they aren't the vacancy winner, they will be offered admission almost immediately... essentially filling the "waiting list" slots throughout the cycle. Even without an LOA, the committee will say, at certain points throughout the cycle, "Give us all the fully qualified & nominated candidates above xxxx level. You have one week to bring them to the committee." Again, that could happen BEFORE the file completion deadline, so if you were waiting until the last minute to take your fitness assessment or still working on getting Q-MED, you just missed the boat on that chance!
So now the answer to the question "what does it mean to be on the NWL?" Because of how large and how aggressive this class was about completing their files early, we put a lot of LOAs out there. Those are essentially commitments to the class. In addition, although we usually have around 80% of folks saying "yes" when they are offered admission, this year it is much higher for various reasons. With more outstanding commitments and more folks saying "yes," we are overcommitted and will bring in a very large class. This is why the numbers are being more aggressively culled than usual:
Oh, you got suspended or got a speeding ticket or something? Offer withdrawn.
You got poor grades on your senior yr transcript? Offer withdrawn.
Just now getting submitted for a new med waiver? Denied.
Didn't pass your CFA? Retest opportunity declined.
Didn't get your medical issues resolved by 15 April? Disqualified.
Didn't give us an answer to your offer of admission by 1 May? Withdrawn.
You didn't submit certain items in your file to us by the deadline (INCLUDING your 7th semester transcript)? File closed.
This also means that there will almost certainly NOT be any more "send us all fully Qualified & nominated candidates who meet xxxx or yyyy criteria" coming from the admissions committee. As a result:
ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY, ONLY CANDIDATES WHO WIN THEIR CONGRESSIONAL/SENATORIAL VACANCIES OR WHO HAVE LETTERS OF ASSURANCE WILL RECEIVE OFFERS FROM HERE ON OUT. This has been the state of affairs for a few weeks now.
Only your Regional Commander can tell you whether or not your congressional vacancy has been filled (i.e. someone higher on that list of 10 names than you has been offered admission and has accepted the offer). Many folks currently on the NWL are sitting just below a candidate who will win the vacancy IF they get medically qualified or IF they accept their offer of admission. If they decline, then we start going down the list and MAY get to you. They should not (I will not) tell you where you are on that list, only whether or not you still have a shot at it.
Sometime around the middle of May, you should receive final word about whether or not you will be coming off of the NWL or not. If not, AND if you applied for a 4-yr ROTC scholarship, AND if you selected that "ROTC consideration" checkbox on our application, AND you have yet to receive a decision from them, you stand an excellent chance of being selected. They will hold an additional scholarship board and review all of our "Qualified, but not Selected" names and pick many of you up.
A 4-year ROTC scholarship is not a "consolation prize" that's tossed out there because you didn't get selected for USMA. You apply for it just like you do for us, but they use the fact that we've already looked over your file and found you worthy (just didn't have room) to save them time in their own evaluation process... they basically take our word for it and select you based on our assessment. Obviously this does not happen 100% of the time, but your odds are excellent. Many folks who are QNS have already received ROTC scholarships before they ever get the "no-go" word from us.
I hope this helps to explain the process in more detail and clears up some misconceptions or misunderstandings.
Go Army!
-MAJ B.
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- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,480
Wow - thank you for an incredibly helpful and informative post! Great to have a lot of these issues answered right from the source! 
A lot of great information, but also clear warnings to current appointees to keep on the same path, make no mistakes, and get everything in and completed on time. Thanks again!
A lot of great information, but also clear warnings to current appointees to keep on the same path, make no mistakes, and get everything in and completed on time. Thanks again!
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 142
So its possible that a speeding ticket could get a previous appointment taken away, or is this refering to being placed on the NWL taken away, ie offer withdrawn (since this was the topic of the thread)?
Thanks so much for your time here, if I may ask one question about Prepsters (USMAPS), while at Parents Weekend, the Commandant told us that he expected about 200 (+/-5 or so CC's) to receive Appointments this year, as was the case for last year, is that still true at this time?
Thanks
futurepilot22
5-Year Member
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- Jan 6, 2010
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- 89
How poor of grades do you mean? I've been worried about this. I'm working as hard as I can, but am taking the hardest course load of my life.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2009
- Messages
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Worry less. Study more. Knowing the answer (and there isn't an "absolute" one) should not change your level of effort.
Maximus- Target is around 240-250.
LivinLarger- anything is possible. Best way to resolve this issue is to not get a speeding ticket in the first place.
Best of luck to you all!
shortness01
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
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- 1
MAJ B,
I'm just curious, but.. what happens to this "overcommited" class of 2014? Will any special meausres be taken to lower the class size, or will there just be a super large class? And does West Point even have enough room in the baracks for all these extra people?
Thanks!
I'm just curious, but.. what happens to this "overcommited" class of 2014? Will any special meausres be taken to lower the class size, or will there just be a super large class? And does West Point even have enough room in the baracks for all these extra people?
Thanks!
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,480
Beast is gonna suck!
(Okay, sorry, I had to say it before someone else does!).
They'll certainly have enough room over the summer since most of the Corps isn't there. They can weed out the riff raff then!
Yes, I'm only joking, but this has been the reaction of most "Old Grads" I've talked to who've heard about this!