Naval Reserve

bob'sburgers

bob'sburgers

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May 1, 2019
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When the mids sign the USMMA service obligation contract are they officially under the jurisdiction of the Navy? My interpretation from reading the USMMA website is that they are not until they graduate and either go Naval Reserve or active duty. Is it correct that if you quit after C3 you are on the hook for either the cost of education or up to 3yrs of service in the Navy?
 
You are on the hook upon reporting for 2C year. If a mid quits after that then he or she will be required to pay back the cost of their education. It is my understanding that active duty service is no longer an option to repay the cost of your education. Mids are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Transportation while at USMMA, but they are also technically Navy Reservists.
 
I recall from the last time I reviewed my Navy record that it had my acceptance day paperwork in it and it showed my stats as USNR-S2. S2 is the deepest of the deep statuses and puts you on the “Inactive Status List”.

BUPERSINST 1001.39F states that S2 Members “may not participate for retirement points or pay and may not be assigned to any Navy Reserve organization other than the Inactive Status Pool. They may not be considered for advancement or promotion.”

46 CFR 310.58 (e)(1)(i) Breach of Contract – Breach before graduation
If the Maritime Administrator determines that an individual who has attended the Academy for not less than two (2) academic years has failed to complete the course of instruction at the Academy, such individual may be ordered by the Secretary of Defense to active duty in one of the Armed Forces of the United States to serve for a period of time not to exceed two (2) years. In cases of hardship, as determined by the Maritime Administrator, the Maritime Administrator may waive this provision in whole or in part.
 
KPEngineer said:
I recall from the last time I reviewed my Navy record that it had my acceptance day paperwork in it and it showed my stats as USNR-S2. S2 is the deepest of the deep statuses and puts you on the “Inactive Status List”.

BUPERSINST 1001.39F states that S2 Members “may not participate for retirement points or pay and may not be assigned to any Navy Reserve organization other than the Inactive Status Pool. They may not be considered for advancement or promotion.”

46 CFR 310.58 (e)(1)(i) Breach of Contract – Breach before graduation
If the Maritime Administrator determines that an individual who has attended the Academy for not less than two (2) academic years has failed to complete the course of instruction at the Academy, such individual may be ordered by the Secretary of Defense to active duty in one of the Armed Forces of the United States to serve for a period of time not to exceed two (2) years. In cases of hardship, as determined by the Maritime Administrator, the Maritime Administrator may waive this provision in whole or in part.
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I believe you are correct. The midshipman are not active and not paid.
The reason I brought this up is because currently there is no D.O.T mandate for vaccination at the USMMA. The administration, however, has made students sign a form from the"Department of Naval sciences" verifying that the Navy and by extension, the naval reserve requires vaccination. They go on to set the Naval reserve deadline date as the date that all midshipman have to be vaccinated by in order to avoid" consequences". They never actually state that midshipmen are required by the Navy to be vaccinated, nor is this form identified as coming from the Navy. They emphasize that failure to comply may put midshipman at risk for punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, UCMJ article 92 (does not even apply to Mids at USMMA). If the D.O.T has no mandate, why is the administration trying to illegally force D.O.D mandates on USMMA midshipman?
It shows a lack of honor to use such coercive and deceitful tactics in order to achieve their goals.
I've tried to attach the form from"The Dept of Naval sciences" below, but is"too big".
 
That form is a standard Navy form known as a “page 13,” which serves as an all-purpose record of counseling and acknowledgement. The department head and instructors in the Naval Science Dept are active duty and no doubt get guidance from the Navy chain of command they report to, even though they are embedded at USMMA, a DOT school.

There is a tangled web of relationships and statuses there, which I make no claim to understand. I just wanted to shed light on the form, which has been in use in the Navy for decades as a general counseling sheet as a NAVPERS form, which is identified on the form as “NAVPERS 1070/613.” See:

This link at the Naval Education and Training Command (NETC), describes some of the linkage with USMMA and the Navy Reserve. NETC also oversees NROTC, and OCS, plus other officer and enlisted accession programs.

Finally, the USMMA website itself describes the hybrid relationship with the Navy and refers to “Midshipman, MMR, USNR” status.

Service Obligation | U.S. Merchant Marine Academy

At the Academy you will receive an excellent education and the skills necessary for a successful career. Since the Federal Government has a substantial investment in your education, you will be required to fulfill the terms of a service obligation after graduation.
www.usmma.edu

I have no thoughts or arguments on this one, just wanted to share some primary sources info. It’s a truly unique status at USMMA, and I will leave it to the alumni, school, DOT leadership and NETC folks to figure it all out. No doubt JAGs and DOT counsel are involved. The Navy Reserve has no doubt pushed out vaccination policy for various Reserve statuses. I don’t know how USMMA midshipmen status is accounted for.

Edit: I just stumbled across this 9/21/21 update:

U.S. Navy Vaccination Requirements for Midshipmen | U.S. Merchant Marine Academy

September 21, 2021
www.usmma.edu
 
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Capt MJ said:
That form is a standard Navy form known as a “page 13,” which serves as an all-purpose record of counseling and acknowledgement. The department head and instructors in the Naval Science Dept are active duty and no doubt get guidance from the Navy chain of command they report to, even though they are embedded at USMMA, a DOT school.

There is a tangled web of relationships and statuses there, which I make no claim to understand. I just wanted to shed light on the form, which has been in use in the Navy for decades as a general counseling sheet as a NAVPERS form, which is identified on the form as “NAVPERS 1070/613.” See:

This link at the Naval Education and Training Command (NETC), describes some of the linkage with USMMA and the Navy Reserve. NETC also oversees NROTC, and OCS, plus other officer and enlisted accession programs.

Finally, the USMMA website itself describes the hybrid relationship with the Navy and refers to “Midshipman, MMR, USNR” status.

Service Obligation | U.S. Merchant Marine Academy

At the Academy you will receive an excellent education and the skills necessary for a successful career. Since the Federal Government has a substantial investment in your education, you will be required to fulfill the terms of a service obligation after graduation.
www.usmma.edu

I have no thoughts or arguments on this one, just wanted to share some primary sources info. It’s a truly unique status at USMMA, and I will leave it to the alumni, school, DOT leadership and NETC folks to figure it all out. No doubt JAGs and DOT counsel are involved. The Navy Reserve has no doubt pushed out vaccination policy for various Reserve statuses. I don’t know how USMMA midshipmen status is accounted for.

Edit: I just stumbled across this 9/21/21 update:

U.S. Navy Vaccination Requirements for Midshipmen | U.S. Merchant Marine Academy

September 21, 2021
www.usmma.edu
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In response to the last link, that only applies when the midshipman graduate: Yes, the Naval reserve requires vaccination, but NO, the midshipman are NOT active Naval reserve. Seems like the academy is trying to insinuate that the DOD requirements apply to the mids when they most certainly do not.
 
I am glad I am no longer on AD and have to wrestle with this. The latest Navy guidance sets the AD vaccination deadline in Sep, and the Ready Reserve component of the Navy Reserve has a December date. Para 3B. Interestingly, both Selected Reserve and Ready Reserve terms are used. My manpower knowledge of the Navy Reserve doesn’t go much further than working with a drilling unit assigned to me, and being aware of several other types of Reserve status. Of course, I had many USNR merchant mariner officers assigned to me for annual training during multiple tours with Military Sealift Command.


I often go to the Cornell Law School site when I need to find U.S. Code references. This is what I found that relates to USMMA midshipmen and their Reserve status.
www.law.cornell.edu

46 U.S. Code § 51311 - Midshipman status in the Navy Reserve

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu

That’s where it is all unique and slightly foggy to me, whether the Code defines an MMR midshipman at USMMA as being part of the Ready Reserve component of the Navy Reserve.
 
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From BUPERSINST 1001.39f (the currently in force instruction)

If I were a M/N, I would submit a statement

1. A M/N acceptance day paperwork will show their status (I believe to be S-2)
2. If in fact they are S-2, they are not a part of the "Ready Reserve"
3. The SECDEF Memo states "I therefore direct the Secretaries of the Military Departments to immediately begin full vaccination of all members of the Armed Forces under DoD authority on active duty or in the Ready Reserve, including the National Guard, who are not fully vaccinated against COVID-19. "
4. The SECDEF Memo also sates "Mandatory vaccination requirements will be implemented consistent with DoD Instruction 6205.02, "DoD Immunization Program," July 23, 2019."
5. DoD Instruction 6205.02, "DoD Immunization Program," limits the requirement for influenza immunization to "All Active Duty and Selected Reserve (including National Guard) personnel".


If I were a M/N, I would submit a statement referencing BUPERSINST 1001.39F and attaching the Reserve Status chart, SECDEF Memo, and DoD Instruction 6205.02. I would not make any declarative statements but ask for further written guidance on two points.

1. Applicability of the policy to me since I am not Active Duty or Ready Reserve, but as a USMMA M/N I am "Standby Reserve Inactive" as evidenced by my paperwork showing an S-2 status.
2. That I be provided a copy of the updated DoD Instruction 6205.02, "DoD Immunization Program," for review since per the SECDEF memo the mandatory vaccination requirement will be implemented "consistent" with DoD Instruction 6205.02.
 
Capt MJ said:
All DoD Instructions can be found online at:


DoD Directives Division Website: https://www.esd.whs.mil/DD
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The point is not where can I find a DoD Instruction.

The point is that the policy is supposed to be implemented consistent with a document that doesn't exist or at least not in a form that incorporates the policy you are trying to implement.

DoN and by extension NavSci at USMMA should not be doing anything until the DoD Instruction is updated to incorporate the SECDEF Memo. The point I would be making is that NavSci at USMMA can not provide documentation that the mandate for the shot actually applies to me.
Additionally, I would be making the point (although very very subtly) that DoN and by extension NavSci at USMMA are essentially assuming authority not granted. Based on what authority are they extending the policy from Active Duty and Ready Reserve to Standby Reserve? Are SECNAV and CNO doing this on their own authority? That's not what they are saying. They reference the DoD Instruction which as demonstrated does not apply to M/N at USMMA.

I have provide documentation that it doesn't ... your move (speaking as a M/N to NavSci)
 
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I got all that. Was just providing the practicable/printable source for the 2019 instruction in support of it not being a 2021 edition, if it was being used as an attachment. Whack ‘em over the head with it.
 
Capt MJ said:
I got all that. Was just providing the practicable/printable source for the 2019 instruction in support of it not being a 2021 edition, if it was being used as an attachment. Whack ‘em over the head with it.
Click to expand...

👍 Sometimes my wife accuses me of being too subtle ... I assumed I was again guilty of said offense.
 
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