Navy? A better choice for fighters than AF?

[Pima]

You are right, there are waves to all this. So much of it is about timing. Right now in the Navy there is not an RPA track, by the time you get there, it could happen. No one knows. I know tons of pilots to include my best friend who is an 18 guy. Has been in flying billets his whole career until his last one. Flight school, IP, fleet tour, Blue Angel, fleet tour, school tour. Was selected for CO and declined. I have another buddy who never wanted to touch a desk on the Navy side. He had 20 years of flying tours with no desk time. But he never made 0-5 and was happy with that. It's good you are looking at things. But remember there is so much more to this. Remember life happens too. Marriages, kids, likes/dislikes, quality of life. These things might not matter at 17 but they will mean a lot at 22, 24 and beyond. Do your research but honestly pick a service that you happiest in. There are so many ifs and you need to be happy if you one of those ifs happen.

Could not AGREE MORE!

We have AF friends that mimic yours.
~ Thunderbirds, and officers that never flew a desk with the same results.

I also agree what if the Navy does bring on RPAs like the AF?

Finally, life happens is probably something they are not thinking about, but I bet we all know many that left at the 1st chance because of the factors you listed. As a 17 or 18 yr old you don't imagine the impact your family will face. Babies being born while deployed. Spouse career takes a backseat because you have to move every 3 years and after 10 years they are baked being both parents and sacrificing career opportunities.

JMPO, the only thing you have control over is the what if; plan B not rated option! Assume plan B and impo you have the answer.
~ The Navy offers so much more regarding seeing the world as non rated over what you want to see in the AF.
~~ How many people say they want to live in Mt. Home Idaho or Abilene Texas compared to Norfolk or San Diego?

If you don't have an issue working as a missileer at Minot ND over pilot than go AF!
~ FYI I always play devils advocate.

 

[Pima]

I guess the National Guard way there is the best way because if I don't get into a fighter unit,I can remain on enlisted status while going to the airlines since ANG is part-time. It would be somewhat of a win/win situation since I ouldn't have to worry about going AD for an obligation with RPA's. Thanks!

Confused on your going to the airlines while being in the ANG. Have you researched how little airlines pay at first, even SWA where they have no feeders? Do you understand how much you would have to pay to get a multi prop engine rating?
~ PPL alone cost thousands, multi prop is a lot more. You will need a college degree either way.
~~ Can you honestly afford the student loans, even with enlisted Guard pay and the maybe 30k a year salary from Mesa or TED?
~~~ Why do pilots stay until retirement over leaving at 10?
~~~~ Because they know that even the starting salary for major carriers are very low, their retirement pay means they can survive. They also know that when an airline has to cut it is line numbers. You can take a left seater in a 737 and make him a Captain of the commuter. His line number is higher.

Again, here is the problem in your assumption...the ANG unit. Do you have an IN? Please visit baseops.net

Finally, answer do you want to serve or is it all you want is the glory of a fighter?
~ I am insanely proud of my F15E WSO DH, and we remind our C130 pilot that without their mission and air drops (personnel/supplies) we would not as a nation have air superirioty.

Also remember that without that F35 enlisted maintainer you would not get off the runway.

Sorry, but IMPO, SWA, Jet Blue, Continental, Delta, etc.will not hire you over the pilot that flew for a decade in the military.

I know I am being Janie Raincloud but I am also being honest. Do you think the AF offers 250k for grins and giggles? Or do you think it is about retainment?

 

[flyguy 96]

Confused on your going to the airlines while being in the ANG. Have you researched how little airlines pay at first, even SWA where they have no feeders? Do you understand how much you would have to pay to get a multi prop engine rating?
~ PPL alone cost thousands, multi prop is a lot more. You will need a college degree either way.
~~ Can you honestly afford the student loans, even with enlisted Guard pay and the maybe 30k a year salary from Mesa or TED?
~~~ Why do pilots stay until retirement over leaving at 10?
~~~~ Because they know that even the starting salary for major carriers are very low, their retirement pay means they can survive. They also know that when an airline has to cut it is line numbers. You can take a left seater in a 737 and make him a Captain of the commuter. His line number is higher.

Again, here is the problem in your assumption...the ANG unit. Do you have an IN? Please visit baseops.net

Finally, answer do you want to serve or is it all you want is the glory of a fighter?
~ I am insanely proud of my F15E WSO DH, and we remind our C130 pilot that without their mission and air drops (personnel/supplies) we would not as a nation have air superirioty.

Also remember that without that F35 enlisted maintainer you would not get off the runway.

Sorry, but IMPO, SWA, Jet Blue, Continental, Delta, etc.will not hire you over the pilot that flew for a decade in the military.

I know I am being Janie Raincloud but I am also being honest. Do you think the AF offers 250k for grins and giggles? Or do you think it is about retainment?

I was also thinking about going into aerospace engineering too. I am willing to pay for airline pilot training. I know it's very expensive, and that's one of my reasons for flying in the military first. Should I execute my plan of majoring in Russian studies while in college hile doing AFROTC?

 

[NavyHoops]

Only you can decide that. You need to take a look at tech vs. non tech rated EA selection rates. No one here should tell you what you should do. You have to look at the facts and do what is best for you. If STEM is not your strength you to evaluate the risk of doing engineering. But you also need to understand the percentages. Plus there is the unknown factor of your year group. Last year to this year in EA % were much different.

 

[Pima]

We really can't help you with out some stats.

Being vague does no good to you at all on this site.

What are your SAT/ACT best sitting?
PFT?
Flying hours currently

 

[cb7893]

What if I major in basket weaving or aviation science(Both are very easy majors)? Or I major in Russian studies, which I think is better because my overall goal is to become an astronaut so I am focused on test pilot school but I want to test fly new fighters. I came up with another pan. I will major in Russian studies first in college while I'm in AFROTC. That major is really easy compared to aerospace engineering, so my GPA will be higher( I expect it to be really low with engineering which is another problem). If I make SFT, and my GPA is high while studying Russian culture, I have a chance to make ENJJPT? If I do go to ENJJPT, I will later transition after hopefully flying fighters to the ANG after my commitment so tat I can go back to school and then get my aerospace engineering degree. Is this a good plan? Or will the ENJJPT board look at people differently than those with the harder engineering degrees? I have heard that they consider engineering majors more desirable because they know a lot about aircraft. But I also heard that majors don't matter when applying to the ENJJPT board.

Flyguy,

Bone up on your math skills. Apply to the SA's. Apply for an AFROTC and NROTC scholarship. Read Crime and Punishment before you decide to major in Russian Studies. Have you ever even studied a foreign language beyond the state mandated two years?

You have been told everything you need to know by these patient folks. You have been told everything you need to know. Now go spend your energy making yourself ready instead of spending it planning out something which cannot be planned out.

Best of luck!

 

[Pima]

To add on to chs comment read up on what the requirements are to become a Test Pilot....hint your plan won't work because they want specific undergrad degrees and Russian isn't going to be one of those majors.

I think cb7893 is correct at this junction everybody has basically spoon fed you, and jmpo, but I think you are being totally unrealistic and somehow you will find the path of least resistance to become a 35 pilot.

 

[NavyHoops]

Same for Navy TPS. Has to be a STEM degree, preferably engineering degree. Oh and you fly what they tell you to fly in TPS. TPS for the Navy used to be a coveted billet because they could fly 20-40 aircraft in a tour 20 years ago. Not the case anymore. We just don't build aircraft at that rate. Be prepared as a jet guy to fly a Super Hornet (or the next version... Super Duper Hornet... joke!) or JSF day in and day out. Most days you will go up with a knee board and write down alot of stats while flying whatever it is the engineers want to collect that day. To be honest from all my buddies who fly jets, they have actually stayed away from TPS. My only buddy who did fly at TPS, did it is a payback tour for a Masters degree and is now an astronaut. So it can be done if its something you want to do. We have all given a ton of info. As mentioned for specific Navy flight details the airwarriors website is a great place to really learn the details of the Naval Aviator training path.

 

[flyguy 96]

To add on to chs comment read up on what the requirements are to become a Test Pilot....hint your plan won't work because they want specific undergrad degrees and Russian isn't going to be one of those majors.

My plan was to major in Russian studies while in college, and if I am flying fighters out of ROTC, I will go into the guard after some years so I can go back to school to get my aerospace engineering degree.

I think cb7893 is correct at this junction everybody has basically spoon fed you, and jmpo, but I think you are being totally unrealistic and somehow you will find the path of least resistance to become a 35 pilot.

 

[Pima]

Our friend (AFRITC commission) also went onto become an astronaut out of TPS. He went up to repair the Hubble several years back.

Flyboy, it took him 25 years to get up into space and was selected for NASA in 2000.His mission was almost a decade later.
~ Yes, again it is not an automatic path to become selected. It is another board selection.

Just saying that if right now you are trying to take the easiest path to get to UPT, chances are AFROTC isn't going to work for you. You will spend years of being reviewed every semester on your performance; poor performances (PFT, AFOQT, ranking out of SFT) are part of your OOM. The cadre is not going to rack and stack you high within the unit just because you have a 4.0 in Russian studies and sowing up for PT and LLAB.

Cadets here can tell you that they look at the whole picture which includes the jobs within the unit. The unit will mimivc squadrons. CWC, CVWC, CFCC, PT instructors, etc.
~ IE as a cadet flight commander you will attend weekly meetings and write reviews. If you belong to a large unit that could be 25+ cadets in your flight. That will take hours away from studying.
~ Some units have mentoring programs that are mandated for 300/400s. As a 300 cadet they will assign a 100 to be there as a know on one.
~ Some detachments earn money for the unit by cleaning up FB and BBall stadiums. This too is mandated for every cadet.
~ Some units do philanthropic aspects, like Relay for Life or Susan G Kohlman ...again it maybe mandated by the unit that all cadets do it. Smart cadets know even if it is so called volunteer, they need to be there because their absence will be noticed.

Just trying to illustrate to you that if you want to commission via AFROTC it isn't just all about academics, actually the CoC ranking is going to be your biggest chunk of that score.
~ Want ENJJPT you will want the cadres support and if you don't have the whole package, high PCSM, PFT, cgpa along with their support such as, being the CWC or CVWC than your odds drop.
~~ Remember ENJPPT wings less than 200 a year where the other three wing together @1000. You will fight for that slot against USAFA cadets too....another reason why if you are majoring in Russian language from the University of Timbucktoo with a 4.0 probably won't be enough to get ENJJPT. Majoring in Aero engineering from MIT with a 4.0 as an AFROTC cadet might be a different story.

I would also read raimius blog (his signature line has the link). Do you know how many test questions you will answer as a UPT student? It is @800. That is going to be a factor when it comes to UPT. The 2nd day at IFS is an exam. Bust it and you get to retake it a few days later. However while you are studying to pass that first exam, the others are studying for the second. Pass a few days later and you have one night to study for the 2nd exam. It doesn't end with IFS, this will occur at UPT.

Hence why I keep saying if you try to get to an F35 via the path of least resistance, eventually it will catch up to you.
~~ DSs class started with 28 at IFS, 21 graduated. You can get it waived if you have a PPL...BUT...once you get to UPT it is basically the same. His T6 class again had 28. 21 made it to the track selection (T38/1). Wash backs were added back in at this point and the class was back to 28. 6 months later at winging 21 made it.

You need to be honest with yourself. Just because you have a PPL and fly a Cessna does not equate to you being the number one in the class. How often do you think Cessna's and Pipers fly fingertip formation?

I am being Janie Raincloud, because I feel like I am now banging my cranium against a wall. I feel as if you are warping what is being stated to fill your illusions of how to achieve it.
~ Goals and dreams are great, everyone should have them, but in my experience they don't tend to work out if you don't accept the reality aspect too.
~~~ Biggest reality is you will serve the needs of the AF. For all you know in 4 years Russian Language may be considered critical manning and not release you for UPT. A few years back it was either EE or ME that HQ AFROTC allowed only a very small amount to go rated. The rest went their degree. I also stated before there is an NROTC poster this year where their DS had a very high OML, wanted rated, but was given nuke subs.

 

[Zero]

Nobody really knows what they look for AFROTC for ENJJPT or it would be plastered all over the place, buddy of mine got picked up and had low PCSM (40s), decent PFA (mid 90s), and mediocre GPA (3,2s). In all reality get a good CC ranking, major in something Aero I guess? Maybe they think that means you will be a better pilot.

 

[Zero]

Oh and one last thing, you have pretty much the same exact chance of getting a fighter at any UPT base. Work hard and it will happen. Take a look at it this way, lets say you go to CBM LX or VN. At least a few of your class probably denied enjjpt because they want heavies, less competition. But in the end the only competition when flying is yourself.

 

[flyguy 96]

To add on to chs comment read up on what the requirements are to become a Test Pilot....hint your plan won't work because they want specific undergrad degrees and Russian isn't going to be one of those majors.


I think cb7893 is correct at this junction everybody has basically spoon fed you, and jmpo, but I think you are being totally unrealistic and somehow you will find the path of least resistance to become a 35 pilot.

My plan was to major in Russian studies while in college, and if I am flying fighters out of ROTC, I will go into the guard after some years so I can go back to school to get my aerospace engineering degree.

 

[flyguy 96]

Nobody really knows what they look for AFROTC for ENJJPT or it would be plastered all over the place, buddy of mine got picked up and had low PCSM (40s), decent PFA (mid 90s), and mediocre GPA (3,2s). In all reality get a good CC ranking, major in something Aero I guess? Maybe they think that means you will be a better pilot.

What did he major in?

 

[flyguy 96]

To add on to chs comment read up on what the requirements are to become a Test Pilot....hint your plan won't work because they want specific undergrad degrees and Russian isn't going to be one of those majors.

I think cb7893 is correct at this junction everybody has basically spoon fed you, and jmpo, but I think you are being totally unrealistic and somehow you will find the path of least resistance to become a 35 pilot.

You are right. The AFROTC way there is unrealistic because there is just too many people who want to do the same thing. I honestly don't think UPT or ENJJPT would be hard for me at all because I love learning about all of that stuff, an I know if I really want fighters, I have to show them I have the attitude, I think it's just the competition and the fact that I will never know who I am competing against and how many fighters, if any, will even drop in X number of my class and X people who want them as well. I've decided the Guard will be best.

 

[Pima]

Glad you now know this is not the path and have done research including Baseops.net. I AM POSITIVE you know that theANG portion from a hiring perspective is not the same as the AFROTC program.

God Speed and God Bless that your dreams come true.

 

[flyguy 96]

Thank you everyone very much for helping me with this decision. I have decided to go the Air National Guard way there because I can also try to have another career on the side. Without your details on this I would have probably walked blindly into something where Ii would mess things up. Thanks again!

 

[flyguy 96]

Yes I am familiar with the

Glad you now know this is not the path and have done research including Baseops.net. I AM POSITIVE you know that theANG portion from a hiring perspective is not the same as the AFROTC program.

God Speed and God Bless that your dreams come true.

Yes, I am familiar with the ANG way there. My hometown is a fighter squadron. I will enlist there as an aircrew flight equipment technician. That way, I can have as much face time as possible with the pilots.

 

[Pima]

God Bless and Good luck...just remember it is all about the fit when it comes to the Guard.
~ Visit baseopa.nst if this is your path
~~ Sorry, but the AF is the 3 smallest branch, networking matters!
~~~ Lurk before you post.
~~~~ We are kind here! They are IN the system.

 

[Pima]

Yes I am familiar with the

Yes, I am familiar with the ANG way there. My hometown is a fighter squadron. I will enlist there as an aircrew flight equipment technician. That way, I can have as much face time as possible with the pilots.

Sorry, but I know have to say OMG!

Pilots are not the face time you want!

Equipment specialist...guessing that means Life Support!?!?

They deserve the utmost respect, just trying to get how you think an O3 or O4 will have an impact.

Granted you might be acknowledged by them...problem is they may have only 1 UPYT slot and decide that a College grad with a 3.6 as àn AERO mjoor has as better shot than you.