Navy flight training accident
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WT Door
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/navy-report-shows-no-misconduct-120144589.html
This mishap occurred over year ago. Some may wonder what was done in its aftermath? What was the final outcome? This news article sheds light on the mishap only in part. The full aviation mishap report is much more exaustive. I post this article to let those unfamiliar with military investigations know that a systematic and thorough process exists where no stone is unturned. The military takes seriously its duty to investigate and provide accountability that protects and enhances the safety and training of all servicemembers. It is their solemn duty to them. RIP LT Ross and LTJG Garrett.
This mishap occurred over year ago. Some may wonder what was done in its aftermath? What was the final outcome? This news article sheds light on the mishap only in part. The full aviation mishap report is much more exaustive. I post this article to let those unfamiliar with military investigations know that a systematic and thorough process exists where no stone is unturned. The military takes seriously its duty to investigate and provide accountability that protects and enhances the safety and training of all servicemembers. It is their solemn duty to them. RIP LT Ross and LTJG Garrett.
Small Team Bacsi
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I hate to co op a serious thread like this. But a somewhat related question.
maybe 3 years now there was a USMC ? Plane that sounded like a,larger cargo plane
with team of USMC recon or raiders as cargo in the back. They all died when the plane when down.some where in the US on a routine flight.
Does anyone have any insight what the cause of this accident was?
maybe 3 years now there was a USMC ? Plane that sounded like a,larger cargo plane
with team of USMC recon or raiders as cargo in the back. They all died when the plane when down.some where in the US on a routine flight.
Does anyone have any insight what the cause of this accident was?
UHBlackhawk
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This one? Improper repair of a blade. Nothing the crew could have done differently. Very sad.
2017 United States Marine Corps KC-130 crash - Wikipedia
Small Team Bacsi
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Thanks this is the one.This one? Improper repair of a blade. Nothing the crew could have done differently. Very sad.
2017 United States Marine Corps KC-130 crash - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
These always seem to hit me harder than the combat deaths
They basically did without doing so directly. No mechanical issue with plane, banked maneuver caused stall at a time when a banked maneuver wasn’t expected, no initiation of out of control flight procedures by the two occupants, no ejection by the two occupants.
Terrible tragedy. May they RIP.
UHBlackhawk
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UHBlackhawk
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Well, in about 80% of the cases that’s true. Often when there is a mechanical issue it’s compounded by pilot error. This can often be the case in the military which, unfortunately, still relies on an outdated method of responding to emergencies by requiring pilots to do many emergency procedures from memory when it isn’t necessary. A classic case of this was the Air Force E-11A crash in Afghanistan in 2020.
I haven’t flown the E-11A, but I’ve flown the civilian version. Basically, the crew had an engine failure, but then shut down the wrong engine. On the civilian side this kind of emergency is no longer a “memory item”, as it’s been found that pilots will too often, as in this case, do the wrong thing. So we refer to a checklist, which takes a few moments and helps calm things down, then methodically read it, and verify you are doing the right thing with the other pilot before doing it. Heck, even if we get an engine fire on takeoff we don’t do anything except silence the fire bell before 800’ and the airplane is cleaned up.
2020 United States Air Force E-11A crash - Wikipedia
These examples don’t relate to this accident, but are just a couple of “crew error” accidents.
Also, please don’t think I feel I’m above mistakes. My prayer before entry flight is, “God, please don’t let me screw the pooch. And if I do, please don’t let it hurt anyone else.”
I understand it's a movie, but in the movie "Sully" when the engines went down and they landed in Hudson, they did show Sully and his co-pilot bring out the binder and go through the checklist on what to do. It reinforces your point about checklists can make a difference. The only crash i am familiar with is the two T-38 that crashed when they were dong formation landing. Both the student pilot and the teacher died in the accident.. In this case, there were no mechanical problems but they did blame the teacher. The student mess up on the landing and the IP allowed him to fix his mistake as was the IP's style. Unfortunately, the student either didn't correct or over corrected, and by the time the IP took over, it was too late. Yes it was human error and yes technically it was the IP's fault as he should have taken over quicker, but i have to assume that is always the issue with a student and teacher. Teachers have to allow their students to correct their mistakes but also have to know when to take over. The end result of the whole affair is that the AF got rid of formation landings. I feel is was unfair to blame the IP.Well, in about 80% of the cases that’s true. Often when there is a mechanical issue it’s compounded by pilot error. This can often be the case in the military which, unfortunately, still relies on an outdated method of responding to emergencies by requiring pilots to do many emergency procedures from memory when it isn’t necessary. A classic case of this was the Air Force E-11A crash in Afghanistan in 2020.
I haven’t flown the E-11A, but I’ve flown the civilian version. Basically, the crew had an engine failure, but then shut down the wrong engine. On the civilian side this kind of emergency is no longer a “memory item”, as it’s been found that pilots will too often, as in this case, do the wrong thing. So we refer to a checklist, which takes a few moments and helps calm things down, then methodically read it, and verify you are doing the right thing with the other pilot before doing it. Heck, even if we get an engine fire on takeoff we don’t do anything except silence the fire bell before 800’ and the airplane is cleaned up.
Another classic example happened to another unit in Tallil while I was deployed. The crew was hover taxiing a UH-60 at about 30’ when they got a low oil pressure indication on an engine. Instead of putting down the aircraft and assessing, the PIC reached up and shut down… the wrong engine. The engine with low oil pressure couldn’t maintain enough power, and they ended up crashing adjacent to a runway. Totaled the aircraft and severely injured the crew chief.2020 United States Air Force E-11A crash - Wikipedia
These examples don’t relate to this accident, but are just a couple of “crew error” accidents.
Also, please don’t think I feel I’m above mistakes. My prayer before entry flight is, “God, please don’t let me screw the pooch. And if I do, please don’t let it hurt anyone else.”
The full report has a lot of details, but ultimately doesn't come to any conclusion besides pilot error. There was nothing wrong with the aircraft. They improperly conducted a maneuver at an altitude that was too low, lost control, and never recovered. It was probably the student at control at the beginning and the one who got them into the stall in the first place. At such a low altitude, the instructor probably took control almost immediately, but either panicked or misdiagnosed what was actually happening. Either way, she never initiated the correct recovery procedures and they never regained control. Neither one of them tried to eject despite SOP being to eject if in out of controlled flight below 6,000ft. In the 22 second descent, it was determined they were in a survivable ejection window until about the last couple seconds when the plane inverted.
So ultimately the report isn't that conclusive, because they shouldn't have done the maneuver they did at the altitude they did, they should have been able to recover from the stall, and they should have ejected. The whole thing happened in a span of 22 seconds though which unfortunately doesn't leave a whole lot of time for mistakes.