Navy ROTC... getting worried.

Navyfb52,

Congratulations on your accomplishments so far. My son had similar stats a year ago and did get a scholarship. Everyone here will tell you that you can't compare year-to-year. Each year the money available and the pool of candidates are different. The school choices can make a difference too.

One other point I would like to caution you on - there are many, many bright, talented and motivated young people out there. Don't be too certain that you are better than most other candidates. I thought my DS was a shoe-in to get NROTC scholarship and admission to his 1st choice school. Both of these things did happen fortunately, however I began to get nervous when I read the stats of other candidates. It turns out that my son is just above AVERAGE at the engineering school he was accepted to! I was shocked to discover this.

His good friend who was #1 in the class applied to Ivies and wasn't accepted. (They both got A's in dual enrollment calc and physics at a local 4 year college.)

I don't mean to be discouraging, but would suggest that you view "the competition" realistically.

Please listen to the advice on this forum and put some other plans into place, then you won't feel so worried if the scholarship doesn't happen or isn't offered for a couple of months.

Kinnem is a good one to listen to since his DS plan B involved still going to his college of choice and attending NROTC as a college programmer. He received a scholarship starting this semester!

My most sincere best wishes to you!

For what they are worth, here are DS stats:
gpa: 3.96 unweighted/4.375 weighted
Class rank 2 of 240
8 AP courses completed (6 5's, 2 4's)
Dual enrollment Calc 2 and Physics I
5 honors classes
SAT 1520 (760 math, 760 reading)
ACT 34
National Honor Society President
National Merit Scholarship semi-finalist
4 years varsity cross country, 3 year team captain
4 years track - 2 varsity, 2 jv
marketing chairperson on our city's Youth Advisory Council
Quiz Bowl team leader- team went to state three years, took 2nd place senior year
Forensics Extemporaneous speaking - two years, went to state and nationals
math tutor at high school
4 year NROTC @ University Of Michigan, tier I (Nuclear Engineering)
 
Tgun said:
Here is how it works for Minnesota:
Minnesota has tuition reciprocity agreements with Wisconsin, South Dakota, and North Dakota. So, a student from Minnesota is treated as being IS for schools in these states (given IS tuition rates, or within a few $$ of IS rate). A student from WI (or the Dakotas) would be treated as being IS for Minnesota ("you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours...") as well.

I was also told that for ROTC scholarship purposes, the boards know this (regarding reciprocity agreeements) and would treat a MN applicant as IS for WI and the Dakotas if they listed these schools on their application.
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Bolding is mine. Do NOT assume this. We went through this in the reverse - my son was a WI resident and he wanted to use Minnesota as his in-state school (reciprocal tuition). When I spoke with the NROTC office, they seemed very dubious of my claim about the reciprocity and kept saying he needed to put WI down instead. They finally told me they were looking into and he received the scholarship for a private school in the meantime. But they didn't seem to know this automatically.
 
Pima said:
There is a lot more in the equation than you are placing in your thought process.

I don't believe anyone is saying you won't get a scholarship, they are only illustrating why you might get only IS.

FWIW, I don't follow your train of thought. If you get only the IS, you would opt to go to your CC? Maybe I read your post wrong.

Even more disconcerting if I read it correctly is you talk about being a great Navy officer, but if you don't like what they give you, you are willing to pick up your toys and leave. I am betting if you talk to the Admiral he would tell you that you aren't always going to get what you want, but you will always get what the Navy needs. I don't know about where you live, but in our area you can be in ROTC as a CC student, you just travel to the host college. If you truly want to be a Navy officer the scholarship should not be a part of your decision.
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I would be more than happy to attend my IS school, even though it isn't my true desire. My goal is to be a Navy Officer, but without the scholarship... I can't. If I were to go in the College program without the scholarship, I only have funds for about one year at a major university. It's still only a chance that I'll receive a scholarship by going through the College Program and I can't fork out all my college saving for one year of hoping to get a scholarship.
 
NavyFB52: If your goal is a 4-year NROTC scholarship to a large state school, I hope things work out for you. At this point, there is nothing more you can do but wait on the selection board.

If you goal is to become a Naval Officer, many of the posters have offered alternative paths to consider including College Program, cross-town schools etc.

You can add to that list the option of seeking a commission via OCS or enlisting and then seeking a commission. You can even seek other military commissioning paths if becoming a military officer (rather than just Navy) is of interest.

In reflecting on your posts, it seems your primary goal is to attend a large prestigious university and gaining your degree - which is a great goal. You may be able to go to two years community college and then transfer to complete your education. In the end, your degree will be from the university.

If you don't end up becoming an officer, I hope seek out other ways to serve your country and fellow man.

Good luck!
 
I see the point you're making about the Navy not wanting to fork out so much money on just one candidate for OOS tuition. I still feel my stats are superior to many other NROTC applicants. I think my application demonstrates I have the skills to be a better Naval Officer than many other candidates and I'd like to believe the Navy wouldn't pass that up just to save a few thousand tax-payer dollars. After all, isn't that the goal of the Navy ROTC program? To produce the best Naval Officers possible, in the end. Maybe every other applicant is more qualified than myself, but I couldn't see that being the case. I was wondering if anyone knew when the majority of the scholarships are awarded? I'm still very optimistic about receiving the scholarship, but I hope i'm notified soon. If not, I'll probably end up going to a community college and the Navy would miss out on the oppurtunity of a great leader. I'm just hoping the result isn't the later and I end up disappointed.
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Don't make the mistake of thinking that how you look on paper will guarantee success in either college or ROTC. The difference between high school , college and ROTC in huge. Over the last 4 plus years I have seen cadets join my son's battalion that had stats off the charts and not make it past the first semester, have also seen the opposite. Cadets with less then stellar stats that were not given scholarships excel in both school and ROTC and were given campus scholarships. Each service sees this as well, while your stats may be what gets you the scholarship, once you start the cadre won't care, it's all about "what are you showing me now". There are more applicants with stats like yours then there are scholarships available, the Navy won't be missing out on anything, they just have a limited amount they can give, as it is with every service right now.

I would be more than happy to attend my IS school, even though it isn't my true desire. My goal is to be a Navy Officer, but without the scholarship... I can't. If I were to go in the College program without the scholarship, I only have funds for about one year at a major university. It's still only a chance that I'll receive a scholarship by going through the College Program and I can't fork out all my college saving for one year of hoping to get a scholarship.
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What is the tuition for you major at the UI, what is the room and board.

Will the university and NROTC allow you to live off campus your first year. Off campus living with a roommate can drastically reduce your cost of living.

Have you filled out all the FAFSA paperwork. Have you explored Grants. Have you applied to all of UI's scholarship programs, probably too early to hear anything back yet. Have you lloked at student loan programs to help off set the yearly cost, granted hefty loans are something to be avoided but smaller loan amounts can be part of the equation. Can you work over the summer, if you are not on scholarship the first year you would most likely have your first summer free to work and save some money for school. There are ways to budget school, it can take some creative finance but it can be done.
 
Jcleppe said:
Don't make the mistake of thinking that how you look on paper will guarantee success in either college or ROTC. The difference between high school , college and ROTC in huge. Over the last 4 plus years I have seen cadets join my son's battalion that had stats off the charts and not make it past the first semester, have also seen the opposite. Cadets with less then stellar stats that were not given scholarships excel in both school and ROTC and were given campus scholarships. Each service sees this as well, while your stats may be what gets you the scholarship, once you start the cadre won't care, it's all about "what are you showing me now". There are more applicants with stats like yours then there are scholarships available, the Navy won't be missing out on anything, they just have a limited amount they can give, as it is with every service right now.
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Amen to that
 
I've filled out my FAFSA, applied for many scholarships (and still searching), and tried looking at every other way I can attend college. If ROTC doesn't go through, I'll do what USMCgrunt said and transfer into a university after a couple of years at a CC.

Don't get my wrong I want to serve my country at some point in my life, but I don't see going enlisted in my future. Hopefully I'll find a program that will allow me to still become an officer (whether I get my college payed for or not).

I know that right now I just have to "Hurry up and wait", I guess I'm just getting anxious about the delayed response. I thought I'd have it all figured out at this point and I could stop worrying about it for the rest of my senior year.
 
NavyFB52 said:
I'm ranked 9/237
ACT: comp.-30
football (co-captain), track (co-captain)
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NavyFB52 said:
I still feel my stats are superior to many other NROTC applicants ... and I'd like to believe the Navy wouldn't pass that up just to save a few thousand tax-payer dollars. .
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First, your stats ARE superior, in comparsion to the entire high school population in the country. However, the pool of applicants for NROTC scholarships is your comparision pool, not all HS students ... generally NROTC (and USNA) applicants have stats exactly like yours, and in the case of the ACT, better. And yet the Navy doesn't select 70% or so of them for NROTC 4 years scholarships. I personally believe it is harder to get an NROTC scholarship to a Private or Out of State Public than it is to get an Appointment to Annapolis, for applicants from most parts of the country.

Second, the NETC is given a budget for Officer Accessions each year. They have a goal each year... let's call it 1,500 new 2LTs. They get about 950 from USNA, then they must get 550 from either NROTC or OCS. They have a BUDGET with which to accomplish this task. Within that budget, their mission is to get the best 550 additional officers they can WITHIN THAT BUDGET. If two 30 ACT, top 4% class rank candidates, such as yourself, are up for NROTC scholarship, and one will cost the Navy $65k over four years of Tuition, Books, Stipend, at an In State public flagship university, and another will cost the Navy $145k at an Out of State Public, , which should the Navy choose? The Navy gets 2 officers at an In-State Public for every one (of equal qualifications) at an Out of State Public. The Navy gets 3 In State Public mids for every 1 at an expensive Private University. Do you really think there aren't at least 500 NROTC candidates with stats equal to yours that are willing to go to their In-State Public?

If you were given the choice of U of Illinois with NROTC scholarship, would you turn it down? Where have you ranked U of Illinois among your five choices on your NROTC application?
 
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NavyFB52 said:
I've filled out my FAFSA, applied for many scholarships (and still searching), and tried looking at every other way I can attend college. If ROTC doesn't go through, I'll do what USMCgrunt said and transfer into a university after a couple of years at a CC.

Don't get my wrong I want to serve my country at some point in my life, but I don't see going enlisted in my future. Hopefully I'll find a program that will allow me to still become an officer (whether I get my college payed for or not).

I know that right now I just have to "Hurry up and wait", I guess I'm just getting anxious about the delayed response. I thought I'd have it all figured out at this point and I could stop worrying about it for the rest of my senior year.
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So it seems like you are doing all you can currently do to attempt to fulfill your college dreams. That's good. Regarding the "hurry up and wait" we all understand. We went through the same thing either as students or parents. We all understand it's hell. There is nothing to do for it other than grit it out and keep working alternatives. If the scholarship doesn't come through for you and you decide on a community college then take Calculus, Physics, and/or Chem and do well. Then reapply next year. As long as you don't have 30 credit hours when you apply you are still eligible for the 4 year high school scholarship. If that doesn't work then apply to a 4 year school after CC and also apply for the 2 year NROTC scholarship. Your stick-to-it attitude and determination indicate to me, as long as you're also humble, you will in fact make a passable officer one day.

And of course, the talk about University of Illinois reminds me of the old saw... What do they call a Naval Officer who commissions from the U of Illinois NROTC program? They call him Ensign, just like everybody else. :smile: (Somehow it comes out better when it's 'what do you call someone who graduates from medical school with a D - you call him doctor!' But you get the point).

Please keep us posted. Work out some more to relieve some of the stress of waiting. :thumb:
 
I definitely see your point, Dunninla. U of I is currently my 3rd choice, but I deffinitely wouldn't turn down a scholarship there.
 
AROTC Parent said:
Navy FB52,

Call the University of Illinois Navy Office. They do offer scholarships that are not based on the national scholarship for Illinois Residents only.

http://rotc.navy.illinois.edu/Future_Students/Future_Students.html

The Illinois scholarship exempts the student from paying tuition.

The Army ROTC at Illinois schools have a similar program.
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There you go NavyFB52. THAT certainly looks like a pretty good backup alternative. DO call and look into the requirements for the Illinois resident scholarship.

Thanks for pointing this one out AROTC Parent.
 
NROTC application and reviews

Daughter and I are totally new to this forum, and there are still a lot of questions that confuse us about the NROTC applications, despite the number of times we visit the Naval ROTC website.

It seems that the January 31st is the deadline for those entering college or wanting to enjoy the NROTC Scholarship in Fall 2013. That probably means then that by February 1st, the weblink to apply for the scholarship (to enter college in Fall 2014) will open.

When is the first review, and how many reviews are there? If an application fails to be considered (did not make it) in the first review, is the application automatically moved to the next review by the board? How many reviews are there?

Are the reviews nationwide, and/or dependent on the region where the applicant hails from (in our case, the southwest), and/or dependent on the region of the college/university that the student is applying for (in our case, the northeast)?

Your guidance would be very much appreciated.:confused:
 
thementoringtree: the 2014 NROTC scholarship will open in early spring.

I would recommend working all along but shooting to complete the application by Labor day or the start of Senior year.

I believe the first review boards are in October. If you fail to get selected in that board, all candidates roll to the next board until they close down.

Navy ROTC is a nationwide competition rather than regional.

There is a great deal of discussion, debate, opinion and positions on the school choice. I recommend reading all you can find here and posting questions. Some criteria used in selecting the 5 schools are in-state school (one required), strength of the candidate, the popularity of the school, needs of the Navy, etc. This is where decisions on how to fill out the application can make a difference in the odds.
 
Thanks a lot!

Thank you for your reply to my question. DD and I will then wait for the applications for 2014 to open.

Does it help that DD meets the ROTC battalion commanders of the schools she is planning to apply? The past two summers, she has visited the schools where she wants to go, more or less.

Sorry, I said DS in my earlier. I meant, Daughter, so that would be DD then.

About DD : She goes to a college prep school in TX (school is considered the toughest one in this TX city), high aptitude in math and chemistry. Plans to do molecular biology or biochemistry and blend it with economics/math. Either she majors in one or minors in the other. Quite proficient in a host of 5 languages, which includes Spanish and Japanese. (Needless to mention, English, of course). Schooling at college prep school has been courtesy of a scholarship. Definitely, there would have been no way we could afford it. When I couldn't pay the deposit (after months the admissions/acceptance letter was received), the director of admissions called /emailed to inform us about the scholarship and help us with the scholarship application process. Has a string of volunteer/community service activities both local and overseas. Presidential Service Bronze and Silver Awardee. Cultural immersion too overseas, courtesy of grants. Very high GPA.
 
thementoringtree said:
Thank you for your reply to my question. DD and I will then wait for the applications for 2014 to open.

Does it help that DD meets the ROTC battalion commanders of the schools she is planning to apply? The past two summers, she has visited the schools where she wants to go, more or less.

Sorry, I said DS in my earlier. I meant, Daughter, so that would be DD then.

About DD : She goes to a college prep school in TX (school is considered the toughest one in this TX city), high aptitude in math and chemistry. Plans to do molecular biology or biochemistry and blend it with economics/math. Either she majors in one or minors in the other. Quite proficient in a host of 5 languages, which includes Spanish and Japanese. (Needless to mention, English, of course). Schooling at college prep school has been courtesy of a scholarship. Definitely, there would have been no way we could afford it. When I couldn't pay the deposit (after months the admissions/acceptance letter was received), the director of admissions called /emailed to inform us about the scholarship and help us with the scholarship application process. Has a string of volunteer/community service activities both local and overseas. Presidential Service Bronze and Silver Awardee. Cultural immersion too overseas, courtesy of grants. Very high GPA.
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To expand a bit on USMCGrunt's response (which was right on by the way) the NROTC application usually opens up on or shortly after April 1. Of course this year could be different. Also, there are separate boards for Navy, Marine and Nurse Option applicants. I know the Marine Boards only meet twice, and I believe the first meeting is in October. Rumor has it Navy boards meet monthly. The board dates for Navy are a closely held secret that apparently our national security is entirely dependent upon.

I've never quite figured out how the PNS (battalion commander - Professor of Naval Science) fits in the scholarship process. The application will require an interview, and some folks interview with the commander at their favorite unit. However I don't know if that carries any more weight than interviewing with some other authorized officer. The regional recruiting command is just down the road from us so my DS interviewed there. Nevertheless I always think its a good idea to meet with either the commander or some other officer in the unit at the colleges you visit. They can often answer questions about the scholarship process and can certainly answer questions about NROTC and in particular that unit (each unit can be a bit different around the edges at least).

It sounds like your daughter's academics will be strong and I'm sure you're already laying plans to take the SAT and/or ACT a few times. They will also assess her on her leadership and athletics. Having a sports background with some varsity letters and perhaps a team captaincy is a good thing when it comes to the scholarship but not disqualifying. There are multiple ways these can be demonstrated in the application.

85% of Navy Option NROTC scholarships are awarded to Tier I and II majors. Not sure where the ones you listed fall, but I expect Economics is not a Tier I or II. You should check it out if you haven't already. The scholarship will be awarded with the specified major in mind. If she changes her major, she will need permission at either the battalion or brigade level. Changes within a Tier or to a more technical Tier is generally no problem. Changing to a lower Tier can be difficult without losing the scholarship. As the warrior/monk in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" said, "Choose wisely".

I'm assuming your daughter is interested in Navy Option based on the majors she is considering. The Marines don't care what your major is, but there are fewer scholarships and the physical demands are much higher.
 
Thank you!

Kinnem,

Thanks a lot for such a very informative reply.

(I feel very bad that I wrote a reply to your post...a quite lengthy one, and I did something, which I can't figure out what...I know I submitted it but apparently, it wasn't posted didn't get it.)

Anyway, math, economics and chemistry are Tier II in the NROTC. All engineering is Tier I.

Thanks for raising the matter about athletics and leadership. DD is engaged in some bits of both at school. Well, not to the captaincy level though in athletics. But I believe that an applicant who has it all (star athlete, very strong leadership, solid academics especially in the tough sciences and math at a tough college prep school, multilingual and immersed in different cultures) I think is so rare, if ever they exist, otherwise he/she isn't human anymore.

Anyway, what is the difference between NROTC MO and the regular NROTC, aside from the majors (NROTC having a preference for Tier I and Tier II and NROTC MO being non-dependent on major), the service years required after graduation, and the physical demands?
 
Forgot to mention

I forgot to mention that DD also did two summers as high school summer scholar at a state university, that is, she took college-level courses while still a high school student. It was a risk and gamble on her part as well as mine. She did amazingly in her courses, finishing them with A's.
 
thementoringtree said:
Kinnem,

Thanks a lot for such a very informative reply.

(I feel very bad that I wrote a reply to your post...a quite lengthy one, and I did something, which I can't figure out what...I know I submitted it but apparently, it wasn't posted didn't get it.)

Anyway, math, economics and chemistry are Tier II in the NROTC. All engineering is Tier I.

Thanks for raising the matter about athletics and leadership. DD is engaged in some bits of both at school. Well, not to the captaincy level though in athletics. But I believe that an applicant who has it all (star athlete, very strong leadership, solid academics especially in the tough sciences and math at a tough college prep school, multilingual and immersed in different cultures) I think is so rare, if ever they exist, otherwise he/she isn't human anymore.

Anyway, what is the difference between NROTC MO and the regular NROTC, aside from the majors (NROTC having a preference for Tier I and Tier II and NROTC MO being non-dependent on major), the service years required after graduation, and the physical demands?
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Well, MO is the Marine Option... basically just think Marines vs Navy. Google the Marine PFT scoring and Navy PFA scoring and you should immediately see the difference in the physical demands. Navy needs technical folks to take care of those ships. All Marines are riflemen and a rifleman's job isn't very technical so although they certainly need technical people there isn't the demand for them that the Navy has. Marine's AD service obligation is 4 years, Navy is 5. But the real thing to base a decision on is what your DD wants to do when on active duty. She should look at what's available on the Navy and Marine web sites. You can only apply to one: Navy, Marines, or Nursing - you MUST choose on the application.

And trust me, there are many applicants who are scholars with excellent academics, star athletes, and obvious leaders. My son won an in-school scholarship. His college CGPA is 3.6+. He always maxes the PFT. He does 3.5 mile ruck runs (35 pound pack) in 25 minutes just for fun. His leadership was weak in high school but he's become one heck of a leader since. Actually he was always a leader, just never had the formal positions to clinch a scholarship while in high school. The caliber of people who receive a NROTC scholarship are at the same level as those who apply to the US Naval Academy. In fact many USNA applicants also apply to NROTC as their plan B. Be prepared for stiff competition. However, for some reason I have a good feeling about your daughter, and the only way one has no chance of getting a scholarship is to not apply. Good Luck! Keep the questions coming when necessary! :thumb:

Edit: The point of mentioning/describing my son was to drive home the following which I forgot to mention - compared to the other Marines Options in his unit, he's just average.
 
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thementoringtree: Kinnem points out something I wanted to comment on also. It seems your DD is very academically sharp and does a fair amount of extracurriculars. You didn't highlite athletics (after all, the military has an expectation of physical fitness) and you didn't highlite leadership positions. These two areas are part of the overall assessment. Recommend your DD seek leadership roles in athletics and ec activities.

Difference between Navy and Marines? Well, that answer goes a lot deeper. Not only the functional jobs available, but where you may be stationed, the physical expectations, etc. That answer requires some research and sole searching.
 
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