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You know, I really believe you meant the "sole" searching above as opposed to "soul" searching! Seems to be on point!
Navy ROTC... getting worried.
- Thread starter NavyFB52
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You know, I really believe you meant the "sole" searching above as opposed to "soul" searching! Seems to be on point!thementoringtree
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Thank you to you both!
Kinnem and USMCGrunt,
You both seem very knowledgeable on military matters, thank you so much for clearing my confusion.
Yeah, DD and I are aware of the competition. DD has breathed and lived with the toughest competition there is, when it comes to academics, and I forgot to mention music (band). Their school band just came back from DC last night to play at the inaugural parties. Well, as I said, although she isn't a star athlete or an Olympian, she is above average in physical fitness. And on leadership, she is starting. She will get there eventually. I give her a year or two. (I myself developed these skills when I was already in my 30s!)
My understanding is that in the NROTC, the PFT comes after the offer and acceptance of the scholarship. Am I wrong? Of course, I know that although a scholarship has been offered, a poor PFT can be a ground for cancellation of the scholarship offer.
Thank you for your brief explanation on the difference between NROTC and NROTC MO. It seems that DD will most likely take the former route.
Is the NROTC MO more or less the same as the AROTC? AROTC is land-based, while NROTC is sea-based but you are a rifleperson? Is that one of the differences? I am absolutely clueless on military matters as I said. It doesn't run in the family at all, even generations before me. So please excuse me for all these questions, which might seem basic for you.
Kinnem and USMCGrunt,
You both seem very knowledgeable on military matters, thank you so much for clearing my confusion.
Yeah, DD and I are aware of the competition. DD has breathed and lived with the toughest competition there is, when it comes to academics, and I forgot to mention music (band). Their school band just came back from DC last night to play at the inaugural parties. Well, as I said, although she isn't a star athlete or an Olympian, she is above average in physical fitness. And on leadership, she is starting. She will get there eventually. I give her a year or two. (I myself developed these skills when I was already in my 30s!)
My understanding is that in the NROTC, the PFT comes after the offer and acceptance of the scholarship. Am I wrong? Of course, I know that although a scholarship has been offered, a poor PFT can be a ground for cancellation of the scholarship offer.
Thank you for your brief explanation on the difference between NROTC and NROTC MO. It seems that DD will most likely take the former route.
Is the NROTC MO more or less the same as the AROTC? AROTC is land-based, while NROTC is sea-based but you are a rifleperson? Is that one of the differences? I am absolutely clueless on military matters as I said. It doesn't run in the family at all, even generations before me. So please excuse me for all these questions, which might seem basic for you.
USMCGrunt
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Ouch! Multi-tasking (I am on a conference call) but I hate when I have typo's)
Good catch!
Edit: After reflection, maybe "sole" searching is the right word!! Ha-Ha
Last edited:
Pima
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thementoringtree,
You probably lost it because SAF has a time limitation before they sign you out, and than if you did not save it, when you re-register again it is permanently gone.
There are 2 ways to fix this.
1. Copy before hitting submit. Than paste once back in.
2. Once signed in try hitting your back button when it says Thank you for signing in, you should be able to hit your back button and after a few clicks...you will be back at the post you wrote. From there hit submit.
NavyFB52,
I am glad you have your ducks in the row. I have to say, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Most ROTC scholarship recipients receive merit packages too. Typically colleges now have a cut off date before RD if you want to be considered for merit.
I know more ROTC cadets/mids that have merit from the college itself than from ROTC HSSP. They were able to attend because their merit and Fafsa loan, came out to be the same as attending a CC. That being said I don't know if your intention was to use FAFSA for CC, if so that is a wrench since you will still need to pony up money.
I also agree with Dunninla, depending on where you live getting into an SA may be less competitive than getting an NROTC scholarship. SA appointments are geo-centric (where you live), NROTC is national and school choice.
Every yr a poster will create a thread asking which is the most difficult ROTC scholarship to get. Every yr. every poster will say NROTC. These posters are also AFROTC and AROTC.
30 Comp, and I don't even know if that is superscored, is not as high as you want to believe. AFROTC does only best sitting, and for the golden ticket scholarship you need to be 31 comp in one sitting to feel like you have a chance. 30 non-tech is placing you in a Type 2, but most likely a Type 7.
For some high ranking state universities, a 30 is not an IN as an OOS applicant. UNCCH that score is IS, not OOS. UNCCH is one of the top 5 in the nation. UVA, 30 as an IS applicant is on the cusp. School selection matters a lot in admittance and scholarships.
For lurkers, candidates of 18, etc. Please understand I am not trying to harp, but trying to make people think in this day and age of superscoring SAT/ACT 30 is strong, but not OMG over the top, we must have them.
One thing jiller59's DS had that was a true feather in their cap. National Merit Semi-Finalist. I can't stress enough take that dang PSAT. Colleges really look at it from an admissions perspective. To become an NMSF you must score the top 95 percentile in the nation. Don't fool yourself every NMSF is also going to put it on their ROTC scholarship application. The board is going to see it, and know that kid is ranked in the the top 5% of his peers from college board.
You can take the PSAT multiple times, but only your jr. yr will count for NMSF.
Look at the admissions profile of the colleges you are applying to for matriculation. I bet somewhere in that 95% NHS, 82% Class President/Leadership, 69% athletics, Mean SAT/ACT, Bull Sheaat you will see X% NMSF.
They like to brag about the quality of students at their college.
At our DS's college they have full ride scholarship program for NMFs. They not only get that, but also, Ipods, Ipads, laptops, books (covered totally, not allowance), guaranteed housing for 4 yrs in the newest dorm.
A ROTC student would only take the scholarship for the monthly stipend.
Our DS was an NMSF, his merit packages for some of the colleges he applied to would have meant the only reason to take ROTC scholarship was for stipend purposes. Of course the college he selected, gave little to NMSF, they had more than enough NMFs applicants, but he still got money.
Sorry for diverting.
You probably lost it because SAF has a time limitation before they sign you out, and than if you did not save it, when you re-register again it is permanently gone.
There are 2 ways to fix this.
1. Copy before hitting submit. Than paste once back in.
2. Once signed in try hitting your back button when it says Thank you for signing in, you should be able to hit your back button and after a few clicks...you will be back at the post you wrote. From there hit submit.
NavyFB52,
I am glad you have your ducks in the row. I have to say, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Most ROTC scholarship recipients receive merit packages too. Typically colleges now have a cut off date before RD if you want to be considered for merit.
I know more ROTC cadets/mids that have merit from the college itself than from ROTC HSSP. They were able to attend because their merit and Fafsa loan, came out to be the same as attending a CC. That being said I don't know if your intention was to use FAFSA for CC, if so that is a wrench since you will still need to pony up money.
I also agree with Dunninla, depending on where you live getting into an SA may be less competitive than getting an NROTC scholarship. SA appointments are geo-centric (where you live), NROTC is national and school choice.
Every yr a poster will create a thread asking which is the most difficult ROTC scholarship to get. Every yr. every poster will say NROTC. These posters are also AFROTC and AROTC.
30 Comp, and I don't even know if that is superscored, is not as high as you want to believe. AFROTC does only best sitting, and for the golden ticket scholarship you need to be 31 comp in one sitting to feel like you have a chance. 30 non-tech is placing you in a Type 2, but most likely a Type 7.
For some high ranking state universities, a 30 is not an IN as an OOS applicant. UNCCH that score is IS, not OOS. UNCCH is one of the top 5 in the nation. UVA, 30 as an IS applicant is on the cusp. School selection matters a lot in admittance and scholarships.
For lurkers, candidates of 18, etc. Please understand I am not trying to harp, but trying to make people think in this day and age of superscoring SAT/ACT 30 is strong, but not OMG over the top, we must have them.
One thing jiller59's DS had that was a true feather in their cap. National Merit Semi-Finalist. I can't stress enough take that dang PSAT. Colleges really look at it from an admissions perspective. To become an NMSF you must score the top 95 percentile in the nation. Don't fool yourself every NMSF is also going to put it on their ROTC scholarship application. The board is going to see it, and know that kid is ranked in the the top 5% of his peers from college board.
You can take the PSAT multiple times, but only your jr. yr will count for NMSF.
Look at the admissions profile of the colleges you are applying to for matriculation. I bet somewhere in that 95% NHS, 82% Class President/Leadership, 69% athletics, Mean SAT/ACT, Bull Sheaat you will see X% NMSF.
They like to brag about the quality of students at their college.
At our DS's college they have full ride scholarship program for NMFs. They not only get that, but also, Ipods, Ipads, laptops, books (covered totally, not allowance), guaranteed housing for 4 yrs in the newest dorm.
A ROTC student would only take the scholarship for the monthly stipend.
Our DS was an NMSF, his merit packages for some of the colleges he applied to would have meant the only reason to take ROTC scholarship was for stipend purposes. Of course the college he selected, gave little to NMSF, they had more than enough NMFs applicants, but he still got money.
Sorry for diverting.
USMCGrunt
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thementoringtree: Regarding the physical fitness test (PFT) - for the Marine Option application, it is taken beforehand. Usually at the same time as the interview.
I think the Navy scholarship winners take the test upon reporting to school.
I think the Navy scholarship winners take the test upon reporting to school.
Pima
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PFA/T is going to be a part of their life for yrs.
She will need to do it as an applicant.
Once at college she will need to do it again to contract as a scholarship recipient.
This brings us to 2 things.
1. Some PFT proctors will count the maybe sit up. She needs to get the form correct because once in NROTC there is no maybe, there is only the correct way.
~~~ This is one reason why some bust or see drastically lower PFT scores. The form was not their standard.
2. Kids get the scholarship and breathe. They go back to being a HS sr., enjoying their last summer having fun with friends. They stop training.
~~~ PFT your DD can choose the date...raining, cold, hot, she gets to decide to take it another day. In NROTC it is a set date, and unless there is a hurricane or blizzard predicted the unit is not going to change it because it is raining, cold or hot.
If she is intending to attend a college that is not in your area, where weather can be a factor, stay on her to train. For example. UNCCH in Aug. is hot and humid at 6 a.m. compared to Maine. Univ. Colorado Denver has an altitude issue if you are coming from TX.
Our DS learned very quickly after his 1st semester to run in the worst conditions possible. He would run at 4 pm in the summer because of the heat. He would have his father wake him at 5:30 a.m. when he got up for work to run, even though he went to bed at midnight-1 a.m. Thought/reasoning is PT will be O'dark thirty and he may have had to be up late doing work or hanging out. Exhaustion also impacts the PFT. If it was drizzling he was running...sneaker treads can slip and slow the pace.
Than again our DS probably did this because he was the PT instructor and he had to lead by example. His favorite thing was being the PT guy at the back and pushing the cadets...sprint ahead of them, screamed out their last names for everyone to hear to catch up to him. You don't want them to know your name because a cadet is nailing you for PT.
She will need to do it as an applicant.
Once at college she will need to do it again to contract as a scholarship recipient.
This brings us to 2 things.
1. Some PFT proctors will count the maybe sit up. She needs to get the form correct because once in NROTC there is no maybe, there is only the correct way.
~~~ This is one reason why some bust or see drastically lower PFT scores. The form was not their standard.
2. Kids get the scholarship and breathe. They go back to being a HS sr., enjoying their last summer having fun with friends. They stop training.
~~~ PFT your DD can choose the date...raining, cold, hot, she gets to decide to take it another day. In NROTC it is a set date, and unless there is a hurricane or blizzard predicted the unit is not going to change it because it is raining, cold or hot.
If she is intending to attend a college that is not in your area, where weather can be a factor, stay on her to train. For example. UNCCH in Aug. is hot and humid at 6 a.m. compared to Maine. Univ. Colorado Denver has an altitude issue if you are coming from TX.
Our DS learned very quickly after his 1st semester to run in the worst conditions possible. He would run at 4 pm in the summer because of the heat. He would have his father wake him at 5:30 a.m. when he got up for work to run, even though he went to bed at midnight-1 a.m. Thought/reasoning is PT will be O'dark thirty and he may have had to be up late doing work or hanging out. Exhaustion also impacts the PFT. If it was drizzling he was running...sneaker treads can slip and slow the pace.
Than again our DS probably did this because he was the PT instructor and he had to lead by example. His favorite thing was being the PT guy at the back and pushing the cadets...sprint ahead of them, screamed out their last names for everyone to hear to catch up to him. You don't want them to know your name because a cadet is nailing you for PT.
Pima
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xposted with USMC, are you saying that MO they don't take one at school to contract for the scholarship? They contract regardless of a PFT score in college?
How does the OML work regarding career assignment selection? For AFROTC PFT is part of the OML. I thought it was also for A/NROTC too.
In other words, it is 4 yrs of every semester testing (PFT). Sr yr in HS for the application is like braxton hicks for pregnant women. You feel the pain, it prepares you for what is down the road, but the baby isn't coming yet. It is just preparation.
How does the OML work regarding career assignment selection? For AFROTC PFT is part of the OML. I thought it was also for A/NROTC too.
In other words, it is 4 yrs of every semester testing (PFT). Sr yr in HS for the application is like braxton hicks for pregnant women. You feel the pain, it prepares you for what is down the road, but the baby isn't coming yet. It is just preparation.
thementoringtree
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PT/PFT
Hi Pima,
Great information on the subject above. Thanks a lot.
Hi Pima,
Great information on the subject above. Thanks a lot.
USMCGrunt
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Pima: you read too much into my post. I just meant that NROTC MO candidates take a PFT as part of the application.
They also take a PFT when they report and an official one each semester during college.
If I remember correctly, they also take one at the start of every summer cruise.
Taking PFT's and working out is a way of life in the military as you know.
They also take a PFT when they report and an official one each semester during college.
If I remember correctly, they also take one at the start of every summer cruise.
Taking PFT's and working out is a way of life in the military as you know.
USMCGrunt
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For the Navy option you are correct. Once at the college the Navy PFA will be administered. Your daughter must pass it before she can contract. And without the contract there is no scholarship money or stipend flowing. She would have until the end of the first semester to pass it but it's always best to pass it up front.
Not to confuse you, but for the Marine option the PFT is administered as part of the scholarship application and then must be passed again once at college (like above).
For either option the test is administered at least twice a semester and a poor performance will put one on remedials... ie. PT 5 days a week instead of 3 (at least it's three at son's unit).
Sort of I suppose. The Marines are the ground based combat arm of the Navy. They're the ones who hit the beaches. Think Okinawa and Iwo Jima in this regard. Of course Marines have also served in Afghanistan, Iraq, and on the front in WW I, in addition to their amphibious duties. Marines are also the guys who guard the embassies when it's not contracted out.
All questions welcome.
jiller59
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When I posted the other day I updated a few DS stats from when he received his scholarship, but forgot to update one: DS was a National Merit Finalist by the end of the process. Guess what? University of Michigan does not give one dime to NMF, but DS really wanted to go there. U of M is IS, so affordable without scholarship. He received letters from other colleges offering him lots of money to attend based on NMSF status, but U of M is where he wanted to go. Fortunately, he was offered the NROTC scholarship to his first choice school. I am happy to be paying "only" room & board
Pima
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Yeah he was incredibly famous! 
Sorry guys, as a Mom, I was as a Mom using my own pain/experience
USMC,
If I am correct every branch that offers ROTC HSSP requires the PFT as part of the application.
The only difference I can see is you are saying MO requires the PFT to be done at the interview process, and not allowed by others, such as HS PE instructors.
If that is the case, I get your position. However, I still stand my position that many recipients think once the scholarship is in hand equates to contracting. They stop working out, start spending more time being the avg HS SR. believing all they have to do is show up to ROTC to contract.
Some schools like our DS's don't have ROTC dorms, they live with every one. The PFT can be done within the 1st few days of getting there. Kids are getting their 1st taste of freedom, ordering pizza at 10-11, going to bed at 1, and having to be up at 5:30 for a 6 am show. They can live in dorms like our DS where the halls echo and have a roommate that comes in at 2 because their 1st class is 11 a.m.
Honestly, that is my point, college is not home where Mom and Dad say lights out at 11.
Sorry guys, as a Mom, I was as a Mom using my own pain/experience
USMC,
If I am correct every branch that offers ROTC HSSP requires the PFT as part of the application.
The only difference I can see is you are saying MO requires the PFT to be done at the interview process, and not allowed by others, such as HS PE instructors.
If that is the case, I get your position. However, I still stand my position that many recipients think once the scholarship is in hand equates to contracting. They stop working out, start spending more time being the avg HS SR. believing all they have to do is show up to ROTC to contract.
Some schools like our DS's don't have ROTC dorms, they live with every one. The PFT can be done within the 1st few days of getting there. Kids are getting their 1st taste of freedom, ordering pizza at 10-11, going to bed at 1, and having to be up at 5:30 for a 6 am show. They can live in dorms like our DS where the halls echo and have a roommate that comes in at 2 because their 1st class is 11 a.m.
Honestly, that is my point, college is not home where Mom and Dad say lights out at 11.
I don't think NROTC requires the PFT as part of the application.
It looks like there are two different conversations going on in this thread, this is for the OP.
You have mentioned several times that you would not be able to attend a major university without the scholarship. There is one very important thing you need to keep in mind.
Several people have given the advice that a student should only attend a school that they an afford without the scholarship. This is true whether you receive the scholarship or not.
Unlike merit scholarships, ROTC scholarships have several more conditions that need to be met to retain the scholarship. There have been several posts on this board that refer to cadets that have been disenrolled from ROTC and now owe the money back.
There are several things that can happen that can cause you to lose your scholarship, most are spelled out in your contract but not discussed enough during the application process.
These are just a few of the things that can cause disenrollment:
Below the minimum GPA
Receive a MIP or MIC or DUI
Get in a fight outside of school and get arrested.
A traffic ticket with a fine over $250.00
Not passing a PFT
Not making the height weight standards (A NROTC Mid was disenrolled for being 8lbs over weight just weeks before graduation, he owed $150,000.00 back to the Navy) There is a long thread on this board about this.
The list goes on. The point is nothing is a guarantee. You may start out with a scholarship and by some event lose it, if that happens you are on the hook for the entire amount of the scholarship you have used to date, including the first year.
Make sure you select your school carefully, don't spend that money you have saved for school, you may need it later.
Don't just attend the most expensive school on your list because you have a scholarship, that has come back to bite many cadets and mids over the years.
thementoringtree
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NROTC PFT
That is what I have read and thought so too. The PFT comes after the scholarship offer and not before or during the application process. I had a student who received an NROTC scholarship to a top Ivy League (yes, in the league of Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and he would take the PFT once he got to campus (start of the school year).
That is what I have read and thought so too. The PFT comes after the scholarship offer and not before or during the application process. I had a student who received an NROTC scholarship to a top Ivy League (yes, in the league of Harvard, Yale, Princeton) and he would take the PFT once he got to campus (start of the school year).
thementoringtree
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Disenrollment
An ROTC scholarship recipient, regardless of branch (AROTC, NROTC, etc), if disenrolled for reasons mentioned above, will be required to pay back the entire amount of the scholarship, even if he/she is already in his/her last semester, and even if he/she did well in the 3.5 yrs he/she was at school?
An ROTC scholarship recipient, regardless of branch (AROTC, NROTC, etc), if disenrolled for reasons mentioned above, will be required to pay back the entire amount of the scholarship, even if he/she is already in his/her last semester, and even if he/she did well in the 3.5 yrs he/she was at school?
thementoringtree
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Sounds rather harsh to me...But well....if that's the rule...
Pima
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jiller,
Our DS was like yours. UNCCH and NYU Sterns offered DS admission with merit. UNCCH was IS, NYU OOS.
Here is the OMG... he opened applications in the summer of his jr. yr. never submitted/completed the process.
Feb. they offered him admittance, said We know you didn't meet the admissions board, BUT....
With research we found out his AFROTC scholarship was a reason for the offer, but also he was an NMSF.
We thought it was a hoax, sign here and you are IN. We were waiting for the pay X amount, etc. AFROTC sat on their admissions, and those 2 items together got him the IN. To our financial dismay he opted to go to another college.
This is why I am saying the cart before the horse comment. He has no clue yet what these colleges will offer.
Why I am saying PSAT is not to be seen as a pre-cursor for the SAT. It can give you more financial freedom when you are rubbing pennies together to pay for college.
I am not going to walk away agreeing with a comment that the Navy lost a great leader because they didn't pay for their college.
To me a great leader is someone that never gives up, never gives in. They will accomplish the mission. Not going NROTC because of a scholarship to attend college for your personal desires, says you are not ALL IN.
You are IN for you, not me, the taxpayer who relies on the military to defend this great country.
What bothered me the most with the OP, was all or nothing. Give me a scholarship or I won't serve, Navy's lost. We have all stated there is more than 1 way to skin this cat.
I am not able to wrap my mind around the fact I feel this is more about paying for college and NROTC is a way, than serving in the military.
ROTC isn't SA, but it isn't a cake walk either. You don't get to say I don't want to be assigned to Norfolk because that is on the East coast and I want Hawaii.
You serve at their needs. If you can't get that ROTC is also a 4 yr crap shoot for career fields, yet you will serve 365 days a yr AD, maybe it is best you part ways now when you are in HS.
If you are having a tizzy about them saying they will only pay for X school and it is number 5 on your list...just imagine when they give you your #3 career list and assigned to the crap base for 3 yrs?
Sorry, but somebody has to finally say it, and stop coddling. You will serve at their needs, not YOUR desires or needs. You will salute sharply when you get a crap assignment.
You are a cog in the system.
You as a HS student is a dime a dozen. You actually are a liability when it comes to the debt/credit ratio.
You can take your scholarship for 1 yr and walk after that yr.
The idea that people think the military isn't financially savvy when it comes to scholarships like a Fortune 500 with their discretionary budget is mind boggling
They are probably the best in that case. They have multiple layers of interviewing.
If I was a BGO or an interviewer, sorry, but the attitude of navyFB52, and are told am told they aren't going to go OCS or enlisted, with the comment:
would give me pause.
Sorry NavyFB52, but that is true. I have a choice 1 slot, 2 applicants.
One says if I don't get the scholarship I will go enlisted and use the GI bill to pay for college. I will serve in the Navy, enlisted will just make a better officer because I now have both sides of the fence.
Second says to me that type of comment from my quote. I am not going with them.
Our DS was like yours. UNCCH and NYU Sterns offered DS admission with merit. UNCCH was IS, NYU OOS.
Here is the OMG... he opened applications in the summer of his jr. yr. never submitted/completed the process.
Feb. they offered him admittance, said We know you didn't meet the admissions board, BUT....
With research we found out his AFROTC scholarship was a reason for the offer, but also he was an NMSF.
We thought it was a hoax, sign here and you are IN. We were waiting for the pay X amount, etc. AFROTC sat on their admissions, and those 2 items together got him the IN. To our financial dismay he opted to go to another college.
This is why I am saying the cart before the horse comment. He has no clue yet what these colleges will offer.
Why I am saying PSAT is not to be seen as a pre-cursor for the SAT. It can give you more financial freedom when you are rubbing pennies together to pay for college.
I am not going to walk away agreeing with a comment that the Navy lost a great leader because they didn't pay for their college.
To me a great leader is someone that never gives up, never gives in. They will accomplish the mission. Not going NROTC because of a scholarship to attend college for your personal desires, says you are not ALL IN.
You are IN for you, not me, the taxpayer who relies on the military to defend this great country.
What bothered me the most with the OP, was all or nothing. Give me a scholarship or I won't serve, Navy's lost. We have all stated there is more than 1 way to skin this cat.
I am not able to wrap my mind around the fact I feel this is more about paying for college and NROTC is a way, than serving in the military.
ROTC isn't SA, but it isn't a cake walk either. You don't get to say I don't want to be assigned to Norfolk because that is on the East coast and I want Hawaii.
You serve at their needs. If you can't get that ROTC is also a 4 yr crap shoot for career fields, yet you will serve 365 days a yr AD, maybe it is best you part ways now when you are in HS.
If you are having a tizzy about them saying they will only pay for X school and it is number 5 on your list...just imagine when they give you your #3 career list and assigned to the crap base for 3 yrs?
Sorry, but somebody has to finally say it, and stop coddling. You will serve at their needs, not YOUR desires or needs. You will salute sharply when you get a crap assignment.
You are a cog in the system.
You as a HS student is a dime a dozen. You actually are a liability when it comes to the debt/credit ratio.
You can take your scholarship for 1 yr and walk after that yr.
The idea that people think the military isn't financially savvy when it comes to scholarships like a Fortune 500 with their discretionary budget is mind boggling
They are probably the best in that case. They have multiple layers of interviewing.
If I was a BGO or an interviewer, sorry, but the attitude of navyFB52, and are told am told they aren't going to go OCS or enlisted, with the comment:
would give me pause.
Sorry NavyFB52, but that is true. I have a choice 1 slot, 2 applicants.
One says if I don't get the scholarship I will go enlisted and use the GI bill to pay for college. I will serve in the Navy, enlisted will just make a better officer because I now have both sides of the fence.
Second says to me that type of comment from my quote. I am not going with them.