Navy SEALS, NROTC???

My biggest concern with the Naval Academy and NROTC is if I wasn't given the chance to go to BUD's after graduation and forced to do something I didn't want to do. I'm starting to get the feeling that it would be better for me to go into the Navy as an enlisted man with a SEAL contract. However, I do really want to go to college and would like to be an officer.

Here is the thing though, you may say that you don't want to do anything else, but if you do NROTC and you do the summer cruises, you will surely think of something to do.

CORTRAMID will show you everything basically, like an appetizer sampler.

Also, there is a SEAL summer training program you can probably do.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you able to commission as an Ensign in one thing (SWO for example) and then request to go to BUD/s after a period of time?
 
I want to be a SEAL and will become one. But i am having the same trouble i want to be an officer but it is ver risky so i am consiering enlisting after college with a SEAL contract then after some time in the teams going through OCS. I have to talk to the SEAL mentor he will be the best source of info. I also want to enlist because SEAL enlisted get more operational time and dont get put behind a desk to plan. Any advice would be great.

Im also considering NROTC.
 
I want to be a SEAL and will become one. But i am having the same trouble i want to be an officer but it is ver risky so i am consiering enlisting after college with a SEAL contract then after some time in the teams going through OCS. I have to talk to the SEAL mentor he will be the best source of info. I also want to enlist because SEAL enlisted get more operational time and dont get put behind a desk to plan. Any advice would be great.

Im also considering NROTC.

People would likely take you much more seriously if you didn't put up such sloppy posts, by the way. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but it really makes you look unintelligent, whatever the actual case may be.

FYI, I'm preparing for Naval Special Warfare right now, and if you look around on military.com and navyseals.com, you'll find just about every question asked.

And when it comes to officers being SEALS, I've heard that over half of the officers in right now are prior enlisted. On the other hand, I recently met an NROTC student who is going in a few months. But if you really want to be a SEAL, you have to decide how important being an officer is to you.
 
If I wanted to be a snake-eater I would go Army where you can work your way up to it...
Infantry >Air Assault >Airborne >Ranger>Special Forces>Delta
I think there are about 12 battalions (?) of SF so may be 10-20,000 troops total?

Just a minor tweak on your post...

You don't "work your way up to it." There is no linear progression, nor is there any real concept of "air assault" infantry. Air Assault, nowadays, is simply a school. Any infantry unit (even those who are traditionally mechanized) can and does do air assaults. They're a tactical operation, which any unit can undertake with proper rehearsals. The traditional idea of rappelling out of helicopters or battalion mass-assaults are, for the most part, relegated to the days when the Air-Land Battle Doctrine reigned supreme, and linear battlefields on the German plains or Russian steppes were the name of the game. The idea of the 101st Airborne being an "Air Assault" division has been largely eclipsed by the change in tactics over the past 8+ years.

There is no progression in an infantry unit or units as far as what you laid out. Assignment to an Airborne unit does not have to follow assignment to another type of unit. As far as Special Forces is concerned, you can assess from any branch or any type of unit, so long as you meet the age/rank/year-group/medical requirements. You don't have to work up to it. In that regard, it is exactly like BUD/S as far as matriculation.

There are 20 active SF battalions across 5 Groups, not to include JFKSWCS and the National Guard.
 
People would likely take you much more seriously if you didn't put up such sloppy posts, by the way. I'm really not trying to be a dick, but it really makes you look unintelligent, whatever the actual case may be.

FYI, I'm preparing for Naval Special Warfare right now, and if you look around on military.com and navyseals.com, you'll find just about every question asked.

And when it comes to officers being SEALS, I've heard that over half of the officers in right now are prior enlisted. On the other hand, I recently met an NROTC student who is going in a few months. But if you really want to be a SEAL, you have to decide how important being an officer is to you.

If you are prepping for NSW, I strongly suggest that you go to the NSW website for your information. The other sites you noted are loaded with misinformation and are not popular within the NSW community. The stat you quoted twice about the percentage of SEAL officers being prior enlisted is way off, not even remotely close. I'm not an apologist for sealswcc.com I just hate to see young guys relying on outside information. The SEAL Teams are a tremendous community and if that's what you want then don't let anyone discourage you just because it's hard to do. Just get informed, train hard, and don't quit.
 
Sorry about that then, I forget where I heard that. I'll take another look.
Thanks.
 
I stand corrected.
for the most part, relegated to the days when the Air-Land Battle Doctrine reigned supreme, and linear battlefields on the German plains or Russian steppes were the name of the game.

You went and made me feel real old...The good old Fulda Gap days

You don't have to work up to it. In that regard, it is exactly like BUD/S as far as matriculation.
I was in a long time ago, ('70's) and I was enlisted. That said, I went from Airborne School, to Ski School, then to Air Assault School, Jungle warfare, Arctic warfare, BNCOC, and so on... back then it was a progression.
Times Do Change I guess.

The point I was trying to make (very poorly) was that in the Army there are MANY more opportunities (jobs) for men who want to sleep under the stars, live off the land and play with guns.

Back in my day, you could go infantry, volunteer for airborne, then ranger then SF, if you quit volunteering for schools (or failed a school),
you stayed at the level you were, or until you tried again. (Not made into a cook or something)

Is this not the case anymore?

Whereas in the Navy they have very few jobs like that - and those jobs are exceedingly hard to get, and if you fail, you end up in a completely different line of work.
 
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You may want to just be a SEAL, but let's also remember even contracting as an Enlisted doesn't mean you will become one. You still have to pass the course and not ring the bell!

This is what people are trying to stress to you. It is great to have a dream, it is great to go for it, but sometimes dreams and reality do not meet up.

You are assuming that as long as you get to try out for SEALs you will make it. We all know what ASSUME means. We are telling you that you need a back up because either way, enlisted or ROTC, you will owe them time back. You will have a commitment to them regardless if you become a SEAL.

Please take a step back and ask yourself if you don't get through SEAL training what would you do for the next 4 yrs? Show me on the enlistment papers that there is a guarantee by the NAVY that they will keep sending you to SEAL training no matter how many times you DOR.

The other issue to look at is, the fact that you are still very young, and you want to be in the thick of it. Trust me with age and enough times of being in the thick of it, you will want a desk assignment to recharge your passion. Additionally, it sounds great being deployed operationally for the majority of the time, but one day you will meet the woman of your dreams. God willing the two of you will have children. Your views will not be so gun ho when she is 8 mos pregnant and they deploy you for 180+/-. You won't be jumping for joy that orders came down and you are to leave in the next 48 hrs, with lockdown starting in the 12 hours knowing that in 72 hours you were suppose to watch your baby girl start her first day of school. It does wear on you all of the occassions you miss.

Additionally, being young pay does not come into the equation. Do yourself a favor and pull up DFAS, see how much an E-3 makes, it is not pretty. It is so sad that if they are married with one child they qualify for food stamps, to see enlisted personnel pay with food stamps at the commissary is heart wrenching. I can't recall off the top of my cranium, but I believe if you are a pilot and an O4 w/12 yrs you make more than the highest ranking enlisted member with 20+.

Eventually, money is an issue, and anyone who says it doesn't is lieing to themselves...even officers walk around saying, when I make O2 then I will be able to breathe, they make O2 and say when I make O3, this game continues their entire career until they hand in their retirement papers saying when I retire, then I will be in the money.

FINALLY,
Eventually you will leave the military. The SEALS (officer or enlisted) that walked away and pushed paper were the ones that got the high paying retirement jobs because they are more rounded and can transition over into the civilian world. What will you have to offer if you only did operations? I don't think there is a high demand for SEALS in the civilian world. There is a high demand for SEALS that took the desk job in the Pentagon doing strategic planning, while there they got their Masters. The reason is because there are so few SEALS that have all of their squares filled. Employers want the well rounded employee, they want the ones that can see the big picture from a long term vision, not the ones that live for tomorrow and only know one particular aspect of tomorrow.

I know you can't imagine it, but one day you will be 35, 3 yrs shy of retirement and you will have to ask yourself, was it worth it that I missed 1/2 of my kids lives and that they look at me as a stranger who lives with them. It is hard to get your 15 yr old back in pony tails when she is out of braces and has a driving permit. To most military members that is their biggest regret when they leave. Not leaving, but the fact that they finally realized how much they lost too.

I know you think none of this will be you, but you will be all of it at one time or another, trust me. It seems to me you are living your own version of the Aesops fable the tortoise and the hare. You are the hare, and everyone here is telling you that you want to be the tortoise.
 
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Thank you, but I have a funny feeling that everything I wrote will be ignored.

I am sure everyone wants jake and his brother (btw jakes brother set up an account on your own because it is getting confusing who is who) believe they both have what it takes.

I am sure they both have watched and read everything they can get their hands on regarding SEALS, probably even GI JANE. That is a great start, but now it is time to have a real heart to heart with the recruiters.

Ask the recruiters to show you the stats of how many graduate from SEALS. It is also important you understand that a recruiters job is to recruit. He can say you can get a SEAL slot, but it is up to you to make it through, there is no guarantee if you Drop On Request (DOR).

I am 1000% positive that SEAL training is harder than Pilot SERES, and I am willing to risk that it is harder than Ranger school. You may think you are fit, but have you treaded water with gear on in the ocean? Swim trunks and a wet ABU are too different stories.

Have you been dropped off in the middle of the woods by yourself with limited supplies and told meet back at this site in 3 days?

AS I stated you can be the best regarding how fit you are, but when they start throwing the curve balls it is not as easy as you think.

Look at it this way...every SA candidate KNOWS they will make it to commissioning day when they enter. 5% never make it past BCT. 25% never graduate from the SA. No offense to the SA's, but compare that to SEAL training and I think everyone would agree SA is a cake walk.

If you want people to believe you have what it takes, then you need to enlighten us on what makes you exceptional, and how you have already trained to make it. This is not meant to put you in an offensive position, it is meant for you to understand that you are not the first, nor will you be the last to say "I JUST KNOW IT!".

I also need to say, that I am not intending to be harsh, but remember lurkers exist and it is important that they get the info and guidance too even if they opt not to join the site. They need to get the good, bad and ugly information.
 
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If you want people to believe you have what it takes, then you need to enlighten us on what makes you exceptional, and how you have already trained to make it. This is not meant to put you in an offensive position, it is meant for you to understand that you are not the first, nor will you be the last to say "I JUST KNOW IT!".
If I went to BUDS (or any other difficult training), I would much rather be in a class where everyone was absolutely positive that they "have what it takes" than in one where the attitude is "look to those on both sides of you and only one will make it". And I would bet that the graduation rates reflect the dichotomy in these attitudes.
 
Mongo,

Maybe I am misinterpreting your post or you are misinterpreting mine.

I agree that you want to be in a class where every one says "I will make it", but the reality is not everyone will make it. You know that and I know that. To say an attitude is THE deciding factor is wrong. You were a pilot...tell me did those who washed out, washed out because they didn't want it bad enough? Do people who are forced to x train from fixed to helo's not want the fixed bad enough? I would say no, I would say that "people plan, God laughs".

I can't see anyone entering a program like SEALS, Ranger, or UPT and saying "I'll give it my best shot, and if I make it great! If not, oh, well"

I believe they all go in with the belief that they will graduate, just as cadets entering an SA believe they have what it takes to graduate. The way I interpret your posts implies that some enter with a nonchalant attitude and those that fail had a nonchalant attitude or they just didn't want it bad enough. Be careful where you step here, because if that is your belief, I know a couple of 09 grads that washed out of UPT, who would take offense to that belief.

Bullet when he was with the 82nd sent one of his many AF enlisted members to Ranger school. This member wanted it for yrs, and without going through the back story of how the system worked then, he finally got the chance. His wife(AF military member) found out she was pregnant before he left. The day before they dropped him off in the desert for 3 days, he got the call she lost the baby. He rang the bell 3 days later, due to the extraordinary circumstances they allowed him to go back and do it again. Why did he ring the bell? Because as he told it to Bullet 3 nights by himself gave him a lot of time to think. That is why I said you might think you will get it, but you never know. Nobody knows what can cause a person to ring the bell. All we should do is to stand behind them admire the fact that only an elite few ever get the chance to apply let alone be one.

I believe Jake has the belief that he will be a good SEAL because he wants it 1000%, my only point to Jake was everyone applying believes that too, and he needs to illustrate in words why he believes he can make it to the posters. I am just asking him to elaborate beyond "I want it" or "I know I can make it". Words are words, actions are different. We all have heard ad nauseum "I know I can make it", but for every I know I can make it, there are a lot of stories of the person who didn't. We do no good to blow smoke up his arse without showing him hard it is from a reality standpoint. It is a double edge sword. You want to support and help them achieve their dream, but at the same time you need them to comprehend the difficulties of obtaining it.

I want Jake to get it, but I DON'T WANT HIM TO THINK THAT BY GOING ENLISTED MEANS HE WILL BECOME A SEAL, he needs to get through training.

I don't care what route Jake take, as long as he knows that Hollywood, Military History or Discovery channel is not reality. Would you not agree? Don't you want him to have all of the facts, INCLUDING the statistical chances of graduating?
 
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To say an attitude is THE deciding factor is wrong. You were a pilot...tell me did those who washed out, washed out because they didn't want it bad enough? Do people who are forced to x train from fixed to helo's not want the fixed bad enough? I would say no,

The way I interpret your posts implies that some enter with a nonchalant attitude and those that fail had a nonchalant attitude or they just didn't want it bad enough. Be careful where you step here, because if that is your belief, I know a couple of 09 grads that washed out of UPT, who would take offense to that belief.
That great philosopher Yoga Berra summed it up best, "90% of the game is half mental." I guess one could say that 'nonchalant' was at the lower end of the opposite spectrum, but, yes, without a doubt, the more someone wants something, the harder they will try, and the harder they try, the greater their chance of success. Maybe not THE deciding factor but most definitely A MAJOR deciding factor. Basic human psychology.

I have absolutely no desire to be around a bunch of people who subscribe to the notion that fate will decide the outcome of a course of events. I want to be around a bunch of people who will do everything humanly possible, and then some, to take action to alter that course of events as they see fit. One of the attributes of a good young military person, I think. They can be tempered later.
 
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Do people who are forced to x train from fixed to helo's not want the fixed bad enough?

That's like saying "people who are forced to give up silver and accept gold." Rotary-wing pilots > fixed-wing pilots seven days a week and twice on Sunday. :smile:

Your argument about Ranger school is misplaced. Ranger school is just that--a school. It is the world's finest small-unit leadership school and not a selection process. BUD/S is a selection process. The end-goal and the drive that people make folks pursue it is radically different. Ranger school is not a precursor to being a Ranger, and finishing it does not make one a Ranger.

You would be better off equating BUD/S with a selection process like SFAS or CAG selection.
 
To get back to the OP's initial intent:

Jeff, we all admire and salute your drive and unstoppable desire to become a SEAL. It IS an admirable quality. And in the end, we are ALL here hoping just as hard for you that you will someday achieve your dream. We ALL agree: keep up the great attitude, keep up that awesome drive to make this dream a reality, and GO FOR IT!

Now, here comes the part that sometimes drags threads like this into the proverbial "rabbit hole" between some of the posters on supporting 1000% or trying to get you to also think about the "what if that dream somehow comes up short?" situation.

Here's my take on it. Like I said, we ALL support your dream and admire your determination to get there. But you continually give the impression that this is an ALL or NOTHING prospect for you: you'll only consider ways to become a SEAL, and nothing else. I (and many other parents on this site) feel that if this is what you want, then fine. But wouldn't it also be prudent to at least look at other options if some unforeseen circumstance or issue pops up that de-rails that plan? You've chosen one of the most competitive and selective career paths in the world for your dream. We WANT you to get it, but we also want you to understand that if, somehow, you can't get to it, would you be willing to consider something else that perhaps isn't as "operational" or as "cool" as being a SEAL, but is still kinda close?

I guess I can sum up my parent's perspective with: don't put all your eggs in one basket. Perhaps you may also want to purchase a couple of Eggos as well, in case that plan for an omelet falls through when you trip on the way home and end up with a scrambled and dirty mess instead.

If I went to BUDS (or any other difficult training), I would much rather be in a class where everyone was absolutely positive that they "have what it takes" than in one where the attitude is "look to those on both sides of you and only one will make it". And I would bet that the graduation rates reflect the dichotomy in these attitudes.

Absolutely. Once they get to that point I hope (and expect) all the candidates to have that attitude. But how many others, who had the same hopes, dreams, and level of desire as the OP, fell by the wayside for one reason or another either before or during the BUDS selection process and didn't make it to that point? I'm sure for everyone standing there looking out into the surf on Day 1, there are probably dozens who didn't get that far. And who is to say their dreams weren't just as strong, or their desire just as great?

To not acknowledge the difficulty in getting there and to at least LOOK at other options as a plan B is to do these young men and women a dis-service.

Personally, one of MY biggest hopes and desires growing up was to live to at least 100 years old. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wanted that (and still do! :smile:), more than almost ANYTHING! I bet you had/have similar hopes and a similar level of desire to live to a ripe old age as well.

But I still brought Life Insurance, on that very small chance that I may not get that dream, even though I wanted it really, really, badly. Having a Plan B for my family, even though the odds were small and my desire was huge, just seemed the prudent thing to do. I bet you got Life Insurance as well, for pretty much the same reason; you thought a Plan B was just the smart thing to do.

I want to be around a bunch of people who will do everything humanly possible, and then some, to take action to alter that course of events as they see fit. One of the attributes of a good young military person, I think. They can be tempered later.

So do I. I also want them SMART. Smart people know that the course of events can and most likely will alter, and make back up plans for it. An even better attribute for a young military person. And I really can't stand those who simply stare dumbfounded out into space when the plans they made fail to work out and cry, "What do I do now! I didn't plan for this!" I prefer those who dust themselves off and move right away onto Plan B.

Rotary-wing pilots > fixed-wing pilots seven days a week and twice on Sunday.

You're an Army guy, so I can understand your confusion and don't mind having to explain this to you again: the duck's bill (or alligator's mouth, however you were taught) faces toward the GREATER of the two things you're comparing (it wants the bigger piece of food). You obviously had this concept backwards! :shake::rolleyes:

If you get your kicks furiously beating the air into submission so you can get only a couple of dozen feet off the ground, who am I to judge??:biggrin::thumb:
 
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Interesting take on rotary wing aerodynamics. Have your pilots come visit sometime. We'll teach them how to fly something that doesn't fly itself. And we'll do it down low, in those "few dozen feet" where the dangerous stuff is. :thumb:

You have your creed. We have ours. :shake:

"I have flown among the trees and seen the face of the enemy."



The SEAL issue has run its course. He gets it or he doesn't.
 
Have your pilots come visit sometime. We'll teach them how to fly something that doesn't fly itself. And we'll do it down low, in those "few dozen feet" where the dangerous stuff is.

I'm sure my pilots and fellow WSOs would love to visit and see your birds in action, if only for the fact that they would be amazed at the reaction time allowed when you moving slower than a Craftsman Lawn Tractor! :yllol: We also fly low, we just like to do it a speeds that will get us there sometime that day!:thumb:

And which is smarter: the operator aware of the "dangers" they have to operate in all the time, or the operator who is aware of those dangers, but also realizes he doesn't need to be in that environment, where when he shoots at the enemy the enemy can shoot back? :rolleyes::shake:

We also have a creed: "Don't blame us you chose poorly..." :yllol:
 
I'm sure my pilots and fellow WSOs would love to visit and see your birds in action, if only for the fact that they would be amazed at the reaction time allowed when you moving slower than a Craftsman Lawn Tractor! :yllol: We also fly low, we just like to do it a speeds that will get us there sometime that day!:thumb:

"Low" as in you can see individual cars from the air? Low as in you're below Class A? You'd be amazed at what reaction time is like when you don't measure your distance between your aircraft and significant objects in feet instead of miles.

We also have a creed: "Don't blame us you chose poorly..." :yllol:

I guess that would make our counter-creed "Don't blame us because you're irrelevant." :yllol: :thumb:

I think there's a Dos Gringos song about that very fact...
 
Pilots

Arguing with a pilot is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you begin to think they like it.

Tower: "Bravo-one-9er, bear to the left, disabled aircraft on the right."
Pilot: "Bravo-one-9er, Roger, have the disabled aircraft in sight, but I don't see the bear yet."
 
"Low" as in you can see individual cars from the air?

Depends on the threat. Like I said, when the enemy can only hurt you when you're down low, why go down low? Different threats call for different tactics. Plenty of other scenarios and environments when I was down low enough to not only see the cars, but if I really wanted to I could also see what radio station he was playing (if I wasn't going past him at 540 CAS, which usually just made him a blur in my subconscious). Honestly, we we were more worried about avoiding the tower a quarter mile away, which gave us just a couple of seconds reaction time.

Low as in you're below Class A?

Low as in when when we were flying in a mountain pass in Scotland, we had to look UP at the cars we were passing on the highway on the ridgeline. Pretty standard operating environment for the aircraft I flew in (and the cause of the most recent fatal combat loss in my Mud Hen community). Again, all depended on being smart enough to use the proper tactic for the threat.

You'd be amazed at what reaction time is like when you don't measure your distance between your aircraft and significant objects in feet instead of miles.

I still have the "Time to Die" charts around here somewhere. If I recall correctly, speed played the largest factor when you were both at the same altitude. Words (and charts) you literally learned to live by when you operate in that environment.

I think there's a Dos Gringos song about that very fact...

LOVE those guys! We had them in a bar a few months back after they gave a concert in Crystal City for the River Rats. Favorite song: "Two is Blind!" :thumb:

But we digress. Wasn't this thread once talking about being a SEAL? Talk about going in low; they're underwater!!!!:shake::shake:
 
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