Navy SEALS, NROTC???

As far as the money issues go, enlisted SEALs get huge bonuses in addition to demo pay, dive pay, etc. I know of no enlisted SEAL families that are anywhere near needing food stamps. An E4 SEAL makes a lot more than an E4 elsewhere.

I really have zero credibility on this topic. But I'll just pass forward what I was told when I had spoken to the recruiter, taken my ASVAB, etc. Take it for what it's worth.

I went to a recruiter and started the process because I was considering enlisting in the Marine Corps. The Navy recruiter wanted to talk to me, and while I wasn't really considering it as an option, I said why not.

Regardless of what the media portrays, enlistments are way up. The Marine Corps wasn't taking any 03 MOS (infantry). Why? They over enlisted 5,000 people (in fact, I've got a buddy who was supposed to ship to basic a month and a half ago...they ended up pushing his ship date off the week before he was planned to ship because they "overbooked." He's now not heading out until October).

Anyways, back to the point. Navy recruiter only had 2-3 ratings available, everything else was over enlisted. I can't remember what they were exactly, but their primary focus was actually the special warfare communities. The statistic is only 86% of available enlisted SEAL slots were filled last year. I think SEALs are awesome, but I definetly don't have what it takes. So I was just listening for information sakes.

Numbers will break down something like this. I was told the SEAL signing bonus was 40k. However, I got a Navy brochure the other day in the mail and it said 60-70k. This is a full enlistment though, not a 3 year AD stint. The signing bonus is given once one recieves their SEAL qualification. I'm no expert on SEAL training but I'd imagine that's a good year, or more, away after finishing basic.

So on top of the SEAL signing bonus and the basic E-(whatever grade)...you'll get dive pay, demo pay, parachute pay, and most likely special assignment pay. Add that all up and it's around 1k extra a month. For further knowledge, a SEAL re-enlistment bonus is between 65-70k. And if one were to make it to senior enlisted/warrant officer (SEAL), they get a retention bonus. The going rate was around 125k, but a maximum of 150k (according to the recruiter). Based off this retention bonus, I'm taking a wild guess that they are pretty desirable in the civilian sector. But hey, what do I know? I haven't even graduated HS.
 
When you are at Tuesday morning of Hell Week and you are more tired & miserable than you thought possible, the lack of a good back up plan can be a great motivator.
Perfect. Wow. Are you sure you are a spouse and not a "been there done that"?
 
Last edited:
What most on the outside do not realize is that one's platform is normally totally self-selecting.

Wow, didn't realize the Navy just let every pilot candidate start their training class and select whatever aircraft best suits them, letting their desires be the judge on which aircraft they are best suited for.

Silly AF, we just judge which of our pilot candidates are actually the best pilots, then we give them their top choice. Of course, this sometimes meant that folks that graduate near the bottom of their class don't always get their top desire or are placed in an airframe that best fits their personality. We just feel so ashamed at this travesty... :wink:

Back in the day of true attack and true fighters, as a VERTREP pilot
So, what exactly is a true attack plane and a true fighter in your esteemed opinion? And this is based on what experience you have in a modern fighter to compare it to?

Granted, I would have LOVED to been flying in a some of the older birds such as a Mustang, Sabre, or Rhino. Great planes all. And with different capabilities than today, but also being flown in different mission types for different circumstances than what we see in the current conflicts. But the Eagle, Viper, Hog, and Hornet are outstanding birds as well, capable of amazing things, which has been proven time and time again since the early 80s. Yeah, they all qualify as TRUE fighter and attack aircraft, in my humble opinion.

I could walk into the dirty shirt mess and usually almost instantly, without knowing anyone personally, before the days of walking I-love-me walls, pick out the platforms of the various tables. Fighters totally different than attack, Tacair totally different than ASW and VAW, fixed totally different than rotary. Maybe a little of 'which came first the chicken or the egg', but nevertheless a gravitation from day one to the platform for which they were best suited. And consequently the effort in flight school necessary to achieve that particular goal.

My experience is a little different. I certainly agree that each community has its own traits and idiosyncrasies, but its more of a "you live the life, you learn to act the same way" scenario. EVERY community gets its share of all types; its more a matter of "once you get to your unit, you learn to do it the XXXXX way". Emulating those more experienced you, copying the way they do things (ESPECIALLY in the squadron you all work out of and the within the overall flying community you all belong to), that has the greatest impact on why one community acts a certain way. The crews tend to "gravitate to each other" in the mess hall because its what they are used to.

To give the impression to the young people here that they can just walk into the first day of flight training and the instructors will immediately start categorizing which aircraft they will get based on their personality or how they act is simply wrong. Granted, personality does play a small part in the instructors thoughts on where a student might be a good fit, but 95% of the equation comes down to how good a stick the student is.

When the strike-fighter came into the inventory, I asked a good friend, a F-14 pilot, the first CAG to go take the F/A-18s to sea, what it was like. He said they were lost, did not know how to act.

I can only imagine. But I'm betting it was mostly because how much the mission changed when they switched from Tomcats (which were more focused on air-to-air protection of the fleet, with just a little bit of knowledge in the later years on dropping a bomb or two), to Hornets (where the primary focus is on interdiction and strike, with a mix of air-to-air as well). I'm betting the learning curve on that first cruise was STEEP, good air-to-air skills, but a lot to learn on air-to-ground. Fortunately, and to be expected, these guys were/are great aviators who were flying another TRUE fighter, they learned quickly. From my experiences flying with them, they are real professionals and experts in both missions now.

And I never figured out what made an NFO tick.

Usually it was the fact I got to ride everyday in a TRUE fighter like the Mud Hen (or a strike aircraft like the Varks I started in).

Could never figure out helo guys, though. Particularly their fascination with spurs and cowboy hats. :thumb::yllol:

I mean, if you really just wanted to go so slow only a few feet in the air, why not get a balloon or kite? :biggrin:

basilrathbone said:
When you are at Tuesday morning of Hell Week and you are more tired & miserable than you thought possible, the lack of a good back up plan can be a great motivator.

Again, at that point in the process, I'm hoping and expecting desire to be a PRIME motivator. But I'm thinking that in February just prior to that summer, there were about 1500 kids sitting at home still waiting for that Big Envelope, with just as much desire and hope as everyone else. Perhaps we should be telling them, "You've got the desire, that's all you need. No need to plan for anything else."

Or perhaps it might be a little more prudent to say "You got the desire, and we know you'll do great when you get there. But just in case, would you want to send in an application to another school now so you try again next year in case something happens?"

Again, I don't plan on dieing anytime soon, but I keep my life insurance policy current and paid for, just in case. Don't you?
 
Perfect. Wow. Are you sure you are a spouse and not a "been there done that"?

Not a chance! I see these young kids going through and there isn't a bonus big enough to entice me to even try to go through that...
 
Again, at that point in the process, I'm hoping and expecting desire to be a PRIME motivator. But I'm thinking that in February just prior to that summer, there were about 1500 kids sitting at home still waiting for that Big Envelope, with just as much desire and hope as everyone else. Perhaps we should be telling them, "You've got the desire, that's all you need. No need to plan for anything else."

Or perhaps it might be a little more prudent to say "You got the desire, and we know you'll do great when you get there. But just in case, would you want to send in an application to another school now so you try again next year in case something happens?"

Again, I don't plan on dieing anytime soon, but I keep my life insurance policy current and paid for, just in case. Don't you?[/QUOTE]

I guess I don't really understand what you're saying. What sort of insurance policy are you suggesting? I gave a suggestion for a option to go SEALs that presumes obstacles and failures along the way and how to possibly work through them. I want to underscore again that the ONLY way to get the best info on the SEALs for prospective candidates is to get it from BUD/S. Their website is sealswcc.com. Their phone number is 1-888-usn-seal. They can send an email through the website. Call and ask to speak to a SEAL. If you see a kid on this site or anywhere else looking for info on becoming a SEAL, those SEAls whose job it is to select and instruct would really appreciate it if you send them to sealswcc.com rather than having them rely on links to sites with misinformation, programs that no longer exist, or presumptions on how things might be or how young men react while at BUD/S.
 
Bullet said:
Wow, didn't realize the Navy just let every pilot candidate start their training class and select whatever aircraft best suits them, letting their desires be the judge on which aircraft they are best suited for.

Silly AF, we just judge which of our pilot candidates are actually the best pilots, then we give them their top choice. Of course, this sometimes meant that folks that graduate near the bottom of their class don't always get their top desire or are placed in an airframe that best fits their personality. We just feel so ashamed at this travesty...
First off, this has been, and will continue to be, a response to Pima’s comments about Naval Aviation and applies exclusively to Naval Aviation., of which I am very familiar and feel highly qualified to discuss. I have made no attempt to imply that it has anything to do with the AF.

The service academies are extremely difficult. Very few can do extremely well at everything. One chooses the areas where he or she wants to excel and also the areas where they perhaps wish to slide by with the absolute minimum effort. By the time they graduate, they are experts in this. Good or bad, for many, it continues after graduation.

It may be hard for Pima and a few others to understand but some people go to Pensacola with the express desire to fly helicopters. Some want to fly land based fixed wing. For some, it is the lesser commitment for land based fix wing and the ultimate goal of a career in the airlines. Some simply don’t care. Back in the day, all Naval Aviators carrier qualed. Not any more. For some, it is simply the lack of desire to put an aircraft onto the back of a carrier. AF students do not face this hurdle. And yes, for some, it is the burning lifelong desire to fly jets. All will know by the time they reach Pensacola or at defined 'weeding' milestones just the amount of effort required to achieve their own particular desired end result. Some will work to this level. Some will still strive to be the best. For many, if not most, the amount of effort and dedication determines their class standings and they are where they want/need to be. Perhaps in the AF where anyone who is not a fighter pilot is a second class citizen and they don’t have to overcome the hurdle of landing on a carrier, everyone does strive to fly fighters and your observation is correct. However, your assumption also seems to be that all flight students have exactly equal amounts of drive and determination. I cannot imagine this. However, on many levels this is not true in the Navy.

Bullet said:
So, what exactly is a true attack plane and a true fighter in your esteemed opinion? And this is based on what experience you have in a modern fighter to compare it to?
My comment was prefaced with "Back in the day" so it is a "was', not an "is. Surely your memory is not so short. The F-14 was designed and built and spent the first 25 years of its existence purely in the role of fleet defense. It was only after the demise of the necessity of this role that those partial to the Tomcat dreamed up another role for it and developed the strike version. For true attack, surely you remember the A-6. Except for the capability of the F-14's 20mm in providing some limited ground support, their missions never overlapped. True fighter and true attack. Slightly more recent than the Mustang.
 
Last edited:
Bullet said:
why not get a balloon or kite
I don't know if you ever did simulated SAR when you were doing your war games, but I suppose, if you did, that you would not be terribly concerned to see a balloon or kite on the horizon coming to rescue you? I imagine that a kite or balloon would also not be too effective in a mid-winter over-water SAR 200 miles from the beach. But the AF does do things differently. What do I know?
 
Perfect. Wow. Are you sure you are a spouse and not a "been there done that"?

It seems to me that on this board, there is frequently no distinction between the two, which is to the detriment of the community.

Basilrathbone, thanks for being upfront! :thumb:
 
First off, this has been, and will continue to be, a response to Pima’s comments about Naval Aviation and applies exclusively to Naval Aviation., of which I am very familiar and feel highly qualified to discuss. I have made no attempt to imply that it has anything to do with the AF.

If you are referring to her post #33, there is NO specific reference by her or any distinction between Naval aviation, AF aviation, Marine aviation, or Army aviation. However, she was referencing YOUR times and experiencing as a pilot. I CAN see lack of specificity on her part as part of the confusion. Jut as I can see lack of specificity on YOUR post #53 led to my conclusion that you were discussing ALL pilot training, and how a student's attitude and characteristics were the most important factor in what determines what they get. However, I still call this theory of yours into question. APTITUDE seems to me the proper first priority to determine where a pilot is best qualified, ATTITUDE plays a second role. But as I said, this is the way we do it in the AF; who am I to question if the Navy (or Army) chooses different priorities?


My comment was prefaced with "Back in the day" so it is a "was', not an "is. Surely your memory is not so short. The F-14 was designed and built and spent the first 25 years of its existence purely in the role of fleet defense. It was only after the demise of the necessity of this role that those partial to the Tomcat dreamed up another role for it and developed the strike version. For true attack, surely you remember the A-6. Except for the capability of the F-14's 20mm in providing some limited ground support, their missions never overlapped. True fighter and true attack. Slightly more recent than the Mustang.

Mongo, you know as well as I do that words have meaning, especially to those who follow these discussions and aren't aware of the nuances of the flying community. I do see your point, but it could have been more clearer, in my opinion, that you are talking about "back in the days where each typre of aircraft only specialized in one mission set". The words "back in the days of true fighters" can lead an impression that you are derogatory towards TODAY'S aviation fleet, that they aren't a "true" aircraft where its hydraulics (or pulleys and cables for those really old birds!), guts, and a mano-e-mano dual of the sky; now you see it as just a robot battle royale in the sky. This is NOT the case for 99% of today's modern tactical air battle. Sorry if my skin seemed thin; just tired of hearing old vets with war stories of "Well, in MY day, men were men,etc, etc, etc." without them actually knowing anything about today's air tactics.

And if you read a little further in my post, I mentioned EXACTLY what you use as an example with your discussions of Tomcats. Surely your reading comprehension to short term memory ratio is not so short.

I don't know if you ever did simulated SAR when you were doing your war games, but I suppose, if you did, that you would not be terribly concerned to see a balloon or kite on the horizon coming to rescue you? I imagine that a kite or balloon would also not be too effective in a mid-winter over-water SAR 200 miles from the beach. But the AF does do things differently. What do I know?

Yes, I worked the SAR role, both in war games (like Red Flag, Northern Edge, and Cope Thunder), and in actual "real world" situations. Assumed the role of on-scene commander for a SAR mission for a F-16 down in the Red Sea on a night training mission. Terrible events that day, extremely tough and complex mission every time I flew one.

And yes, I DO appreciate the capabilities, dedication, profesionalism, and experience the helo community and the multi-service SAR community brings to this and many more critical missions. They ARE a great asset, flown and maintained by a great bunch of people.

Please look at that entire part of my post. All three sentences, plus those cute little emoticons that follow each (I know, I lose coolness points for using these in most aviators eyes). I WAS just following along in what I was perceiving as gentle and mutual ribbing on each other between you, scout, and myself. At least that was how I was talking your "not sure what makes an NFO tick" and other continual reminders that I was a WSO, a passenger in the back.
I'm sure I just stepped over some unseen line in your sensitivities; I'll try not to be so insensitive next time. :biggrin: (Look! I used another emoticon! This one means "I'm ribbing you some more!")

scoutpilot said:
If you really wanted to be chauffered around, why not just hire a driver?
The AF already did! He (or she) was that monkey in the front seat I threw a banana to prior to every sortie! :shake:

I keed! I keed! However, it was nice to be driven around everywhere. Almost like I was a celebrity or something (well, at least in my own demented little world!) :thumb::biggrin:
 
APTITUDE seems to me the proper first priority to determine where a pilot is best qualified, ATTITUDE plays a second role. But as I said, this is the way we do it in the AF; who am I to question if the Navy (or Army) chooses different priorities?

I think we probably, in general, agree.
 
I live with and am otherwise surrounded by men who were initially discouraged from all corners when they first mentioned they wanted to become SEALs. It's too hard, what's your backup plan, it's a bad officer career path, etc. The question is, Jake, when you are told this does it make you more determined than ever? If not then start your backup plan now and make it a good one. If you're still interested then call 1-888-usn-seal and ask to speak to a SEAL officer. Get their advice and perspective. While you're at it ask to speak to an enlisted SEAL and see what they have to say.

I am a huge proponent of USNA and NROTC as I am a parent of both. However, as a SEAL prosective candidate it limits your options. While it's true that BUD/S students from USNA have the best percentage for making it through, they are very hard spots to get. You are not guaranteed a spot even if you are in the top 20 of your class. If you are not selected at USNA you must choose another warfare specialty and try for a lateral transfer which are very hard to come by nowadays. The same goes for NROTC. If you want max flexibility in becoming a SEAL officer, go to college on your own dime. Make yourself a stellar SEAL candidate while there and put in a package for OCS. If you don't get picked up by the SEAL board, you have another couple of tries. You don't go to OCS and join the Navy until you have a guaranteed spot in a BUD/S class that way. If you don't get picked up, enlist and go to BUD/S. If you drop or have an injury, you get two more tries as an enlisted member. Yes, you will probably go chip paint for two years on a ship. That is also an honorable way to serve your country. It will also likely make you even more determined the next time through BUD/S. When you are at Tuesday morning of Hell Week and you are more tired & miserable than you thought possible, the lack of a good back up plan can be a great motivator.

I would also like to respectfully put out a different perspective from Pima from one of his earlier posts. As far as the money issues go, enlisted SEALs get huge bonuses in addition to demo pay, dive pay, etc. I know of no enlisted SEAL families that are anywhere near needing food stamps. An E4 SEAL makes a lot more than an E4 elsewhere. Clearly officers make more money than enlisted but the gap is not as huge in the Teams.
There is no "push paper" route, officer or enlisted in the SEAL Teams. All SEALs will be operational during their career. As an officer you will have many tours at a SEAL Team and at other NSW commands. IF there is a desk job at the Pentagon, it is for a tour in between NSW commands. Both officer and enlisted will have opportunity for shore tours in between operational tours. They are a welcome respite. While there is no question that an enlisted SEAL will be able to get more platoons than officers, that does not translate to continuous desk jobs stateside for officers past the first few years. Trust me, I wish that were the case. Senior officers will deploy in leadership positions to frightful places.
SEALs, enlisted and officer, have no problems getting jobs in the civilian sector. The qualities that it takes to persevere in this environment translate well outside, in the eyes of many high paying employers.
Don't take my word for it, though. Call a SEAL and ask for his advice.
Thank you and I do understand what it takes. I will call the number when Monday comes. This is a very thoughtful and extremely good post. I will most definatley have to look into OCS. Thank You
 
Back
Top