New Cadet BBQ

The "BBQ" was a box lunch served in the barracks area on a 100 degree parking lot, after the Lambka Challenge, during Category 5 heat. A few fine folks started this without placing it in context. It's more like the Mess Hall handed out potato chips and box lunches during a heat wave, and called it a BBQ. Hilarious. This is after multiple competitive athletic events during 100 degree heat index all over West Point. This is what Scout calls "relaxing" standards because he didn't do it, I guess. Different is always bad. Despite all US forces in WWII getting Hersheys Bars in rations once in awhile, it's bad, even though it seems that those guys seem to have won the war. Others call it a box lunch on hot pavement after a bit of a suck day in 100 degree heat. Lambka was KIAed by an IED and this challenge, from relays, tire drags, Indoor Obstacle Course, etc, measures the basic skills of the first phase of Beast. It's beyond laughable to see a 20 year old and some codgers describe a box lunch after this as "the Corps going down hill." It was about as much a BBQ as eating 5 alarm chili in Hell after running a 5 mile race, but don't judge USMA by this thread. Just hilarious to see the paintball commandos and geriatrics piping off about "the Corps has."
 
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BenTherr, I'm just wondering, if you wouldn't mind telling us, are you a cadet, parent, alumni...?

Just curious.
 
I'm a Bishop in the 7th Day NonConformist Church. I just come here to see careers implode.
 
. . . I don’t think the original intent of SAF was to display such an unprofessional image.
If you have issue with the way BCT has evolved, write to West Point. Give them your opinion and ideas. Bashing here only displays the immaturity of posters who are supposed to guide.


Push Hard, Press Forward

I am sure the moderators will step in if the discussion is unprofessional. Can't fault anyone for expressing their opinions within the forum decorum.

I didn't write, but had an office call with a senior official at West Point. I got a lot of polite head movements and that was about it. Had an email exchange with another senior official. The message I got was I don't know what I am talking about. My personal opinion is that some folks at West Point are blinded by the numbers and patting themselves on the back - more applicants in recent years although majority of applicants don't go beyond the first step and not hard to increase the number of applicants when we don't charge applications fee (ask a field force member what he sees on the admissions data base as to hos many applicants do nothing beyond opening their applications) or great SAT or ACT scores (I suspect that percentille hasn't changed, but scores went up). We talked about how the commissioning source doesn't determine what kind of officer you will be, rather who you are. If so why not commission officers via cheapest way. West Point should be focused on getting best candidates and making them great officers, instead of being satisfied with more applicants and higher graduation rate.
 
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What's also kind of amusing, is to go back into the prior years threads to see what was said by the New Cadets after they finished CBT. For example, a few quotes form the Class of 2015 (BigBear this is for you):

"Beast really wasn't that bad in retrospect." - pkneram

"Beast was a little different then what I expected going in (I had A LOT more fun then I thought I was going to) but then again, a lot of things are what you make them out to be." - Casey

"Honestly, nothing in Beast stands out in terms of difficulty" - abeastlybeast

"First of all, Beast is not physically hard." - jake s

scoutpilot said, "To be fair, those two pictures were blasted all over Facebook by AOG as a "great example" of how summer training is going" - I went through a bunch of photographs from past years CBT on the AOG website, there were plenty of smiles seen in past years CBT also.

Seems to me a lot of people are getting a bit bent out of shape over a box lunch and some candy bars.
 
The "BBQ" was a box lunch served in the barracks area on a 100 degree parking lot, after the Lambka Challenge, during Category 5 heat. A few fine folks started this without placing it in context. It's more like the Mess Hall handed out potato chips and box lunches during a heat wave, and called it a BBQ. Hilarious. This is after multiple competitive athletic events during 100 degree heat index all over West Point. This is what Scout calls "relaxing" standards because he didn't do it, I guess. Different is always bad. Despite all US forces in WWII getting Hersheys Bars in rations once in awhile, it's bad, even though it seems that those guys seem to have won the war. Others call it a box lunch on hot pavement after a bit of a suck day in 100 degree heat. Lambka was KIAed by an IED and this challenge, from relays, tire drags, Indoor Obstacle Course, etc, measures the basic skills of the first phase of Beast. It's beyond laughable to see a 20 year old and some codgers describe a box lunch after this as "the Corps going down hill." It was about as much a BBQ as eating 5 alarm chili in Hell after running a 5 mile race, but don't judge USMA by this thread. Just hilarious to see the paintball commandos and geriatrics piping off about "the Corps has."

Do you actually know Bigbear or Scoutpilot's background? If not don't call them "paintball commandos and geriatrics."
 
What's also kind of amusing, is to go back into the prior years threads to see what was said by the New Cadets after they finished CBT. For example, a few quotes form the Class of 2015 (BigBear this is for you):

"Beast really wasn't that bad in retrospect." - pkneram

"Beast was a little different then what I expected going in (I had A LOT more fun then I thought I was going to) but then again, a lot of things are what you make them out to be." - Casey

"Honestly, nothing in Beast stands out in terms of difficulty" - abeastlybeast

"First of all, Beast is not physically hard." - jake s

scoutpilot said, "To be fair, those two pictures were blasted all over Facebook by AOG as a "great example" of how summer training is going" - I went through a bunch of photographs from past years CBT on the AOG website, there were plenty of smiles seen in past years CBT also.

Seems to me a lot of people are getting a bit bent out of shape over a box lunch and some candy bars.

Time is a wonderful thing as right now I think Ranger school wasn't bad and I am pretty sure I didn't think like that when I was there.
 
MemberLG - as I often tell my kids, school was uphill both ways when I was a kid.
 
I don't believe the New Cadets are less capable than I was. i don't believe that for a second.

I do question the watering down of the training, however. To revisit the "polishing of the full leather boots" and its supposed uselessness; you realize it was a process, right? The shine on the boots was just a superficial result. I'm not saying the newer boot models are the bane of a soldier's existence, but rather, that the old boots were also a vehicle in the development of discipline and routine.
 
Do you actually know Bigbear or Scoutpilot's background? If not don't call them "paintball commandos and geriatrics."

It is actually directed at all detractors of their fellow Academy members, their chain of command, and the parents of defenseless New Cadets.But if it hits too close to home, I would just offer that given their conduct here, it will not matter whether they are O-10 with two Medals of Honor, the CSM of 1st Batt, or the lowliest maintenance man at a sewer plant. It is irrelevant to bullying a female New Cadet online as she is just starting out, Egregious conduct with no remorse.
 
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Based on the discussion in this thread, and out of respect for the basic cadets, the previously posted links to the BBQ pictures have been removed.

Thank you for your time.

-TN
 
It is actually directed at all detractors of their fellow Academy members, their chain of command, and the parents of defenseless New Cadets. .. It is irrelevant to bullying a female New Cadet online as she is just starting out, Egregious conduct with no remorse.

BenTherr, did I miss the part where I mentioned that new cadet's name, beast company, or future academic year company? Or did you miss the part about new cadets joining the army, and that as a part of that deal are expected to be in shape? Regardless, an out of shape new cadet or a barbecue and afternoon of fall out privileges in central area are not the focus here. Neither is determining whose beast was the hardest. The story has facilitated a discussion on the current trend of training at USMA and whether, if allowed to continue, there is any point paying two or three times more for training that's no different than ROTC
 
I'm a Bishop in the 7th Day NonConformist Church. I just come here to see careers implode.

Right, but what's your connection? You're both more invested emotionally and have more inside knowledge of the "BBQ" ( USMA & AOG's term, mind you) than your average 7th Day Bishop. I can't imagine that you were just wandering through the Internet and found this thread on this site and were so compelled to make an account and accuse people of "cyberbullying" (which has not happened in this thread, near as I can tell).

So if you don't mind, what's your connection to this? Parent? Highland Falls resident? Grad?
 
It is actually directed at all detractors of their fellow Academy members, their chain of command, and the parents of defenseless New Cadets.But if it hits too close to home, I would just offer that given their conduct here, it will not matter whether they are O-10 with two Medals of Honor, the CSM of 1st Batt, or the lowliest maintenance man at a sewer plant. It is irrelevant to bullying a female New Cadet online as she is just starting out, Egregious conduct with no remorse.

Are we "bullying" you or attacking you because we provide our opinions that you don't agree? As stated before many forum members gets close to the line of "egregious" conduct, but don't cross the line. Or if we do cross the line, the moderators will be quick to close the thread. Since there has been not even been a warning, we are staying within the forum rules.
 
MemberLG, if your standard for whether or not you cross the line of the rules for the forum is action by the Moderator, apparently the lines have been crossed. However, even well before the Moderator was forced to take action, there had been a sad lack of professionalism on this site, whether or not the "rules of the forum" had been violated. As an Academy grad, it is sad to see it, especially from other grads. I had expected more (still do expect more) from my fellow members of the Long Grey Line.

Mike Schaertl
USMA Class of 1979
Father of USNA 2009
Father of USMA 2017
 
MemberLG, if your standard for whether or not you cross the line of the rules for the forum is action by the Moderator, apparently the lines have been crossed. However, even well before the Moderator was forced to take action, there had been a sad lack of professionalism on this site, whether or not the "rules of the forum" had been violated. As an Academy grad, it is sad to see it, especially from other grads. I had expected more (still do expect more) from my fellow members of the Long Grey Line.

Mike Schaertl
USMA Class of 1979
Father of USNA 2009
Father of USMA 2017

And if your standard of what's unprofessional is grads griping about the lessening of standards/difficulty at USMA, then you have been...

1. Upset since roughly June, 1979
2. Living in a very very small minority.
 
I thought the purpose of Beast is to help weed out those that cannot perform under near constant stress. The stress used to come in many forms at beast (constant yelling, PT/physical exhaustion, hunger, tiredness, mental exhaustion with knowledge etc..) and all at the same time. I understand the stressors have changed over the years, but there should be stressors of some sort. We had droves of new cadets leave during beast because they couldn't handle the stress. There is nothing wrong with that. I think that is the way it should be. Better to find out earlier than later. Those that stayed learned how to compartmentalize heavy stress and still get the job done. Isn't that what you want from Army officers?
 
Dang it....

MemberLG, Scoutpilot, BigNick, BigBear, if your barometer to measure whether you have crossed the line or not, when the forum moderator puts you in check is clearly a deflection of being responsible for your actions. I encourage you to ask yourselves, “Why is my opinion better than others?” Hint: Your opinions are quickly becoming outdated and disconnected.

BigBear, bluntly, you have way too much time on your hands if you are here, buckle down, study, and graduate the highest you can achieve. The Army and the world await you.

Good luck, gentlemen

Push Hard, Press Forward
 
Tug Boat I agree with you 100%. Shame on the individual for posting those images. Those were innocent photos and that individual has turned them into a mockery. Upper classmen or women you should not be critizing publicly, especially on a forum, the decisions USMA has made with regard to CBT. The training and decisions were made and you should except it. Just like anything else in life, everything continues to change and evolve. Can't get everything perfect all the time. Get over it and move foward. Be the leaders you were trained to be. Respect the academy you attend and don't belittle it publicly. If you have issues, take it up with them directly.
 
MemberLG, if your standard for whether or not you cross the line of the rules for the forum is action by the Moderator, apparently the lines have been crossed. However, even well before the Moderator was forced to take action, there had been a sad lack of professionalism on this site, whether or not the "rules of the forum" had been violated. As an Academy grad, it is sad to see it, especially from other grads. I had expected more (still do expect more) from my fellow members of the Long Grey Line.

Mike Schaertl
USMA Class of 1979
Father of USNA 2009
Father of USMA 2017

I have my own standards. However, this is not my forum and I have to abide by the standard of the moderators. I don't agree 100% with everything moderators do, but they make the rules and if I want to keep on posting or replying in this forum, I have to abide by what I think are "forum rules."

Just typing what I think and allowing moderator to step in will be unprofessional, in my opinion. Hence I am not posting everything on my mind.

I make judgment on other members of the Long Gray line all the time, but I keep my opinion to myself most of the time, as those are mostly my opinions.

I see this thread getting closed pretty soon . . . .
 
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