Newest Forbes Rankings

I agree that it doesn't matter as the target audience for the Forbes College ranking is unsuspecting parents and high school students that don't care about ranking methodology.

I can't recall any high school kid or parents asking me what the ranking methodology when I mentioned the Forbes College ranking.
Lets be honest. MemberLG is correct. Most people don't give a rat's a$s about college rankings. In the civilian world, the only ones who give it any thought, are those who are trying to "RATIONALIZE", why they paid as much as they did to go to college; or to try and justify their enormous "Student Loan Debt".

As for those who apply to the academies, they too don't give a rat's a$s. A forum of highly "Motivated" applicants is the overwhelming minority of applicants. The majority of academy applicants aren't the gung ho individual who has dreamed of attending a military academy since they were a kid. The majority of applicants apply to the academies as just another college. They know that it's highly ranked, but that isn't their biggest concern. Lets be real. The majority who get turned down for an appointment don't even consider ROTC or OTS. They simply move on to another school that they hopefully received a scholarship from. The majority of applicants and their parents see the military academies as a free education. They would have been just as happy if they received a merit, other academic, athletic, or any other type scholarship from a civilian school.

Again; I think our mind set when we discuss topics like this is distorted; because we are on a military oriented forum, where the more motivated applicants come to. More like minded individuals. We always mention to people that when they apply to the academy, to make sure they also have a "PLAN B" school lined up. The truth is: The majority of applicants to the military academies don't have a "Plan B" if they don't receive an appointment. For most of them....... The ACADEMY is one of their "Plan B" schools. The academy is not the first choice of most applicants. They are happy to get the appointment. They are appreciative of the free education. They have no problem serving their country and as a means of paying the government back for the education. But lets not deceive ourselves by believing that the majority of applicants had the academy as their #1 choice. They didn't.

I will say however that cream rises and motivation definitely stands out. As such; I will say that while the majority of applicants don't have the academies as their #1 choice for college; and over 25% WILL Turn Down the appointment; the 1000-1300 who DO accept the appointment, are more Pro-Academy. In other words, while the majority of applicants don't have the academy as their #1 choice, a larger percentage of those starting "I-Day" did have the academy as their primary choice. Is it the majority? I'm not sure about that. But it's definitely a much larger percentage than those who initially apply. Very few appointees turn down prestigious scholarships to other schools to accept the academy appointment. I know some who have; but traditionally, 1600-1700 appointments were offered and approximately 400-500 turned DOWN the military appointment. This is because they got their 1st Choice school.
 
To CC's point.... wow.

Seriously, thank you for that perspective. Undoubtedly as an ALO you "see all kinds" so have that kind of broader view of the candidate pool.

Our personal lens is far narrower as my now "basic cadet" DS was one of those kids who wanted it since he can remember. And much to the chagrin of her mother, Summer Seminar pushed my DD over the edge to the point where she can focus on nothing else but the Academy (to the exclusion of even wanting to discuss Plan Bs...grrr!).

I knew this forum represented a small segement of the applicants, but truly never occured to us that the majority of candidates did not see an SA as their first choice. Important perspective for sure. Thanks.
 
Lets be honest. MemberLG is correct. Most people don't give a rat's a$s about college rankings. In the civilian world, the only ones who give it any thought, are those who are trying to "RATIONALIZE", why they paid as much as they did to go to college; or to try and justify their enormous "Student Loan Debt".

As for those who apply to the academies, they too don't give a rat's a$s. A forum of highly "Motivated" applicants is the overwhelming minority of applicants. The majority of academy applicants aren't the gung ho individual who has dreamed of attending a military academy since they were a kid. The majority of applicants apply to the academies as just another college. They know that it's highly ranked, but that isn't their biggest concern. Lets be real. The majority who get turned down for an appointment don't even consider ROTC or OTS. They simply move on to another school that they hopefully received a scholarship from. The majority of applicants and their parents see the military academies as a free education. They would have been just as happy if they received a merit, other academic, athletic, or any other type scholarship from a civilian school.

Again; I think our mind set when we discuss topics like this is distorted; because we are on a military oriented forum, where the more motivated applicants come to. More like minded individuals. We always mention to people that when they apply to the academy, to make sure they also have a "PLAN B" school lined up. The truth is: The majority of applicants to the military academies don't have a "Plan B" if they don't receive an appointment. For most of them....... The ACADEMY is one of their "Plan B" schools. The academy is not the first choice of most applicants. They are happy to get the appointment. They are appreciative of the free education. They have no problem serving their country and as a means of paying the government back for the education. But lets not deceive ourselves by believing that the majority of applicants had the academy as their #1 choice. They didn't.

I will say however that cream rises and motivation definitely stands out. As such; I will say that while the majority of applicants don't have the academies as their #1 choice for college; and over 25% WILL Turn Down the appointment; the 1000-1300 who DO accept the appointment, are more Pro-Academy. In other words, while the majority of applicants don't have the academy as their #1 choice, a larger percentage of those starting "I-Day" did have the academy as their primary choice. Is it the majority? I'm not sure about that. But it's definitely a much larger percentage than those who initially apply. Very few appointees turn down prestigious scholarships to other schools to accept the academy appointment. I know some who have; but traditionally, 1600-1700 appointments were offered and approximately 400-500 turned DOWN the military appointment. This is because they got their 1st Choice school.

:thumb: Another Great Post!

Some of those that go to the academy as plan B will make a career of it and some of those that went as plan A thinking career will get out after 5.
 
The only list that truely matters :thumb:

The median starting salary of graduates. We see that Clarkson is #11 Yeah Baby!!
(just ahead of NY Maritime)
1. Loma Linda University Loma Linda, CA $64,600 ($29,096)

2. Harvey Mudd College Claremont, CA $64,400 ($44,442)

3. Molloy College Rockville Center, NY $64,000 ($24,420)

4. Colorado School of Mines Golden, CO $63,400 ($17,718 in-state/ $32,748 out-)

5. Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) Worcester, MA $61,200 ($41,380)

6. Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology (RHIT) Terre Haute, IN $60,700 ($39,078)

7. Thomas Jefferson University Philadelphia, PA $59,800 ($32,159)

8. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) Troy, NY $59,500 ($44,475)

9. Felician College Lodi, NJ $58,700 ($29,400)

10. Missouri University of Science and Technology (MST) Rolla, MO $58,600 ($9,350 in-state/ $32,666 out-)

11. Clarkson University Potsdam, NY $57,900 ($38,610)

12. State University of New York (SUNY) Maritime College Throggs Neck, NY $57,300 ($6,782 in-state/ $16,032 out)
 
Lets be honest. MemberLG is correct. Most people don't give a rat's a$s about college rankings. In the civilian world, the only ones who give it any thought, are those who are trying to "RATIONALIZE", why they paid as much as they did to go to college; or to try and justify their enormous "Student Loan Debt".

As for those who apply to the academies, they too don't give a rat's a$s. A forum of highly "Motivated" applicants is the overwhelming minority of applicants. The majority of academy applicants aren't the gung ho individual who has dreamed of attending a military academy since they were a kid. The majority of applicants apply to the academies as just another college. They know that it's highly ranked, but that isn't their biggest concern. Lets be real. The majority who get turned down for an appointment don't even consider ROTC or OTS. They simply move on to another school that they hopefully received a scholarship from. The majority of applicants and their parents see the military academies as a free education. They would have been just as happy if they received a merit, other academic, athletic, or any other type scholarship from a civilian school.

Again; I think our mind set when we discuss topics like this is distorted; because we are on a military oriented forum, where the more motivated applicants come to. More like minded individuals. We always mention to people that when they apply to the academy, to make sure they also have a "PLAN B" school lined up. The truth is: The majority of applicants to the military academies don't have a "Plan B" if they don't receive an appointment. For most of them....... The ACADEMY is one of their "Plan B" schools. The academy is not the first choice of most applicants. They are happy to get the appointment. They are appreciative of the free education. They have no problem serving their country and as a means of paying the government back for the education. But lets not deceive ourselves by believing that the majority of applicants had the academy as their #1 choice. They didn't.

I will say however that cream rises and motivation definitely stands out. As such; I will say that while the majority of applicants don't have the academies as their #1 choice for college; and over 25% WILL Turn Down the appointment; the 1000-1300 who DO accept the appointment, are more Pro-Academy. In other words, while the majority of applicants don't have the academy as their #1 choice, a larger percentage of those starting "I-Day" did have the academy as their primary choice. Is it the majority? I'm not sure about that. But it's definitely a much larger percentage than those who initially apply. Very few appointees turn down prestigious scholarships to other schools to accept the academy appointment. I know some who have; but traditionally, 1600-1700 appointments were offered and approximately 400-500 turned DOWN the military appointment. This is because they got their 1st Choice school.

:thumb:I believe that the few that make a big deal of the list are after bragging rights and an inflated ego or feel slighted because their SA who they have an affiliation with is bringing up the rear of the list and is not really important for most of those that are helped by this forum.
 
Pathnottaken,

I could have done the math wrong, but doesn't the starting pay for an SA grad avarage over $50k/yr with BAH and such?

Add in any COLAs and/or Allowances/Special Duty pay and it nearly makes that list.

Now figure the tax advantages, and it would appear to be solidly in that list.

From a strict numbers standpoint, that's a damn good deal for a 22 year old... especially when you figure in the tuition cost ($0) and the post-graduation employment rate (100%).
 
The only list that truely matters :thumb:

The median starting salary of graduates. We see that Clarkson is #11 Yeah Baby!!
(just ahead of NY Maritime)

I like to think that for some of us $$ is not the only thing that matters as if that is the case there should be more criminals.
 
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I have a few relatives working at Fortune 500 companies in upper level management positions making well over six figures and they almost never hear the question regarding alma maters. Most people just want to what you can do and what your experience/cv entails.
 
When your school is 187th on the list that is being talked about one has to change the subject :smile:

I agree if you are deciding which school or even which major to major in based on the expected pay you most likely will not be very happy or fulfilled with your choice, but then again when you have many schools to choose from and can only afford to have dinner a couple times a week, the money starts to play a more important role in the decision making process.

Using Forbes list I feel am doing pretty well as a parent. One DD graduated from #19 with Dr. degree, one DS is going to #46 to get PhD, and DS is going to #87.And my wife and I only went to #187 not a bad improvement.
 
But Clarkson is soooo Cold.:shake::shake: Is it worth four years in an igloo.
 
Very few appointees turn down prestigious scholarships to other schools to accept the academy appointment. I know some who have; but traditionally, 1600-1700 appointments were offered and approximately 400-500 turned DOWN the military appointment. This is because they got their 1st Choice school.

DS turned down full ride at A&M not for USMA, but Marion and a SHOT, not a guarantee at West Point!

Toughest phone call I've ever seen a guy make, but he knew what he wanted.

A&M kept sending more scholly offers after he declined, as if THAT was going to change his mind. LOL.

West Point started out as his Plan B to USAFA, until he went to SLS. He said the day he set foot at West Point was the day he knew he belonged there, but he did not get the appointment his Senior year of HS, so we thought he was going to go the civilian route until that innocent little brown envelope arrived with" Association of Graduates " on it.

I appreciate how the discussion in general has gone in this thread. It was a twisting, winding journey for so many folks to arrive at their destination schools.
 
CC, I'd argue that a good portion of those that decline appointments do so because they got an appointment to one of the other academies. I don't know a single cadet who had USMA as a plan B, except for those that had USAFA or USNA as plan A.
 
CC, I'd argue that a good portion of those that decline appointments do so because they got an appointment to one of the other academies. I don't know a single cadet who had USMA as a plan B, except for those that had USAFA or USNA as plan A.
X2
I know of a few that accepted an AF/N/AROTC scholarship instead of an appointment to a SA, but all the appointees that I am familiar with chose to at least pursue the military experience through a different route. I readily admit that I am not familiar with any of the recruited athletes that chose to turn down their SA appointments for civilian schools.
 
This post was all in good fun, anyhow. It's just a magazine, and one for rich conservatives at that.

As always, YMMV.
 
CC, I'd argue that a good portion of those that decline appointments do so because they got an appointment to one of the other academies. I don't know a single cadet who had USMA as a plan B, except for those that had USAFA or USNA as plan A.

I can appreciate that, but there are literally hundreds who turn down appointments every year. And only some are for another academy. We're not talking 10, 20, 40, 60, or 100. We're talking on average, there would be 1600-1700 appointments offered; KNOWING that 400-500 are going to turn it down. And I've spoken with many of these kids. They aren't turning down one academy for another. I know many of the schools they've turned it down for.

I also mentioned that the cream rises. By the time BCT actually starts, the actual incoming class is a much higher percentage of those who wanted the academy than who first applied and was possibly even given an appointment.

You have to remember, the majority of those who can get accepted to a military academy, are the type who pretty much can apply to any college/university that they want to. Other than cost, the quality of students attending the academies are the same one applying to and getting accepted to the best colleges and universities in the country.

I'm sure that many/most of the cadets you speak with say that the academy was their first choice. Not saying they don't believe that, at that time. But there's a lot that changes in a teenager when they start applying for college and they get acceptance letters from some; not from others; scholarships from some; not from others; etc....

I know quite a few cadet/alumni who turned down some of the most prestigious universities in the country, to accept a military academy appointment. But I also know plenty of others who turned down the academy appointment because they got accepted to certain other schools. Some of these schools are the elite like harvard, princeton, MIT, etc... Some begin with the name University Of.....

Point is; of the 12,000 that apply initially, the majority do not have the academy as their #1 school choice. Of the 6,000 that it get's narrowed down to, I would still be hard pressed to say that the majority of them always dreamed of a military academy education. But I did concede that come "I-Day" and the beginning of BCT, those who actually get to the academy, the majority usually really wanted the academy as their first choice. Not all of them, but I'll concede more than 50%. Exact number? That's hard to tell. People tend to rationalize their thought process when options change and choices have to be made.
 
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