North Carolina Nominations

[blueridge]

Summer Session

Do you think summer sessions lean toward drawing in students from areas where a military academy might not be as popular, as say, NC (seem to be popular here in NC over many, many years)? Or do you think they really try to get all competitive future candidates to summer session?

I am just curious.

 

[Bigdog1987]

mtnman, do you mean education wise? Or were you meaning competitive nominations?

I just meant competitive as in there were a ton of people from NC at SLS, and I know quite a few others from NC who applied to WP. And it could be different for USNA, no doubt.

 

[Mongo]

I just meant competitive as in there were a ton of people from NC at SLS, and I know quite a few others from NC who applied to WP. And it could be different for USNA, no doubt.

Getting into SLS is not the same as receiving an appointment.

In relation to competitiveness, the perception of a district’s competitiveness, for the most part, means very little, especially districts that people here have deemed ‘more’ competitive. There is only one individual on each slate that will get in based on pure competitiveness of others in that area. For most districts, no matter the caliber of the entire pool, there will be one or two who rise to the occasion. No matter how qualified, can your ego convince you that there is not someone in the school across town just as qualified? Can you decide, with any degree of certainty, that there is not someone whose dad just retired from the Navy, who just moved into the school across town, who spent the last ten years in the Fairfax County school system? Bottom line, only one will win the prize. To say the district is less competitive because fewer apply is ignorant. To say the district is less competitive because you are, without a doubt, the most qualified, is arrogant. And gerrymandering makes for some strange bedfellows. The small rural school competes with the big city magnet school. The only districts where this might matter is the 40 or so that do not normally fill their vacancies. And for USNA, this is a thing of the past.

Only one winner. All the rest are dumped into the national pool, where the only competitiveness is how you and your preparation rank nationally. This is the primary reason why some areas send more candidates to the SAs than others. With that said, however, USNA85 states that, being equal, the candidate from the lesser represented area will receive the appointment. This concept is far removed from the area that I am from, but I have no reason to doubt her. Probably only happens though in a very very few locations.

 

[USAFA_Falcon_15]

I'm sorry mongo, but I disagree. Yes, some factors are out of your hand and completely uncontrollable. However, the way you talk about competition unsettles me. Colorado is a very competitive state as are many others, and I'm sure those of us who receive appointments are very thankful, because we know what the competition was like. There are numerous posts on this forum that speak of some states being more competitive than others, and I agree completely. Now, in theory schools that compete in more competitive districts athletically perform better? Yes? Not in all cases but most, now there are always those few exceptions to the rule, but it's uncommon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but why can't competition for SA's be viewed the same?

I may be getting my feelings hurt over nothing, and I know that's not your intention. Understand though some states are far more competitive, like CO, where when you begin so does 86% of the rest of the state.

 

[Bigdog1987]

Getting into SLS is not the same as receiving an appointment.

In relation to competitiveness, the perception of a district’s competitiveness, for the most part, means very little, especially districts that people here have deemed ‘more’ competitive. There is only one individual on each slate that will get in based on pure competitiveness of others in that area. For most districts, no matter the caliber of the entire pool, there will be one or two who rise to the occasion. No matter how qualified, can your ego convince you that there is not someone in the school across town just as qualified? Can you decide, with any degree of certainty, that there is not someone whose dad just retired from the Navy, who just moved into the school across town, who spent the last ten years in the Fairfax County school system? Bottom line, only one will win the prize. To say the district is less competitive because fewer apply is ignorant. To say the district is less competitive because you are, without a doubt, the most qualified, is arrogant. And gerrymandering makes for some strange bedfellows. The small rural school competes with the big city magnet school. The only districts where this might matter is the 40 or so that do not normally fill their vacancies. And for USNA, this is a thing of the past.

Only one winner. All the rest are dumped into the national pool, where the only competitiveness is how you and your preparation rank nationally. This is the primary reason why some areas send more candidates to the SAs than others. With that said, however, USNA85 states that, being equal, the candidate from the lesser represented area will receive the appointment. This concept is far removed from the area that I am from, but I have no reason to doubt her. Probably only happens though in a very very few locations.

My take on it is simply if NC has more people applying to Service Academy X (my experience, USMA) than [Insert Random State here] the odds of getting an appointment from a congressional nomination (not counting the nat'l wait list) are obviously smaller in NC than in that random state. 40/275 (the number of noms given by Hagan's office over the number her office interviewed) is 14.5%. If the random state has 175 applicants for the same 40 nominations (10 to each of the academies), the random state must be deemed 'less competitive' simply because there is mathematically a higher chance of selection. Right?

 

[USAFA_Falcon_15]

Exactly.

 

[Mongo]

Now, in theory schools that compete in more competitive districts athletically perform better? Yes? Not in all cases but most, now there are always those few exceptions to the rule, but it's uncommon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but why can't competition for SA's be viewed the same?

I will grant you your analogy for team sports. However, acceptance at a SA is the "loneliness of the long distance runner" where individual preparation, heart, and coaching mena more than the level of the competition.

 

[Mongo]

My take on it is simply if NC has more people applying to Service Academy X (my experience, USMA) than [Insert Random State here] the odds of getting an appointment from a congressional nomination (not counting the nat'l wait list) are obviously smaller in NC than in that random state. 40/275 (the number of noms given by Hagan's office over the number her office interviewed) is 14.5%. If the random state has 175 applicants for the same 40 nominations (10 to each of the academies), the random state must be deemed 'less competitive' simply because there is mathematically a higher chance of selection. Right?

So which congressional district is more competitive? One where, in addition to the principal nominee, there are only two other candidates on the slate. Both are competitive in the national pool and are offered appointments. Or? In addition to the principal nominee, the alternate list is filled with another nine names and an equal number did not make the slate. However, none were national pool eligible and only the principal nominee was offered an appointment? Twenty compeating in one district and one appointment? Three in another and all three getting appointments? The competitiveness of the district does not mean as much as the competitiveness of the individuals, does it?

 

[jake s]

quality vs. quantity plays into how hard it is to get a nomination. However, as a general rule quality and quantity are correlated when it comes to noms.

 

[Bigdog1987]

So which congressional district is more competitive? One where, in addition to the principal nominee, there are only two other candidates on the slate. Both are competitive in the national pool and are offered appointments. Or? In addition to the principal nominee, the alternate list is filled with another nine names and an equal number did not make the slate. However, none were national pool eligible and only the principal nominee was offered an appointment? Twenty compeating in one district and one appointment? Three in another and all three getting appointments? The competitiveness of the district does not mean as much as the competitiveness of the individuals, does it?

I agree with that 100%. I think we might be saying the same/similar thing here. I meant that NC is competitive in the initial nomination process, because of the large amount of interest. That the initial odds of getting just a nomination, which is needed to be admitted off the NWL, are lower than at 'random state A'.

We are both using competitive in different ways. I meant competitive like I just stated, that the odds weren't great. Or in this sentence:
"Duke is a competitive school to gain admission at because a lot of people apply there."
You used competitive in a way that would be synonymous with this sentence, correct?
"He's very competitive for admission"

So really, we were both right, and both saying the same thing, if the above paragraph is accurate.

 

[Mongo]

You used competitive in a way that would be synonymous with this sentence, correct?
"He's very competitive for admission"

Of course. Is not the goal to be appointed, not just nominated? A nomination without the subsequent appointment is worthless. Someone competitive for admission will normally breeze through the nomination process. Remember, there are around 6000 nominations for which only 1200 will end up attending.

 

[Bigdog1987]

Of course. Is not the goal to be appointed, not just nominated? A nomination without the subsequent appointment is worthless. Someone competitive for admission will normally breeze through the nomination process. Remember, there are around 6000 nominations for which only 1200 will end up attending.

Good to hear I was understanding you right, and that we have both been meaning the same thing. ha.

 

[ncssm2usna2015]

At NASS I had trouble finding others from NC. A girl from my squad goes to a school in the same district as me in Charlotte, and a teammate from xc was there. Aside from just asking from just asking people where they were from, I did not feel like NC was represented very well. However when n=25 or so, it is tough to make definite statements. It did seem like everyone was from either TX or CA, especially San Diego.

Though I did not see many people actually at NASS, there were a good 9 or 10 on the flight going back to Durham afterwards. There definitely were more at SLS though

 

[hopefulparent]

Of course. Is not the goal to be appointed, not just nominated? A nomination without the subsequent appointment is worthless. Someone competitive for admission will normally breeze through the nomination process. Remember, there are around 6000 nominations for which only 1200 will end up attending.

Disagree that someone competitive for admission will normally breeze through nomination process. Depending on geographical location, candidates can be competing with dozens or even hundreds of other candididate who are "competitive for admission". Only 10 nominations per senator and congressman can prevent lots of good candidates from getting nomination.

 

[HeloPilot_2015]

I got a call from my MOC's office yesterday and was informed that I am receiving an Appointment to USMA!

 

[Bigdog1987]

That's awesome, hope to see you there!!

 

[Mongo]

Disagree that someone competitive for admission will normally breeze through nomination process. Depending on geographical location, candidates can be competing with dozens or even hundreds of other candididate who are "competitive for admission". Only 10 nominations per senator and congressman can prevent lots of good candidates from getting nomination.

Not really. We are discussing those who will get an appointment if nominated, the top 1500 on the slate, not the 7000 or so who receive nominations. Very very few districts have more than 10 candidates scholastically eligible for the national pool where the Academy is their first choice, and they are both medically and physically qualified. The Academy wants the best class possible. For the handful who slip through, there is always the Supts nomination and a few other sources. Admissions has threatened to spend less effort on these few individuals but this remains to be seen. Definitely, in the past, lower single digits, if any. And if any, they probably did not pursue all nominations available, including the VP.

 

[GoNavyBeatArmy2015]

nominations NC

Senatorial (DEC)
plus
Congressional (JAN)
JROTC (JAN)

Hoping for an appointment!

 

[USMA CME]

Do you know of anyone going to usma from NC10?