Not sure where to attend

junli123

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Joined
Apr 17, 2023
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My main goal to become a Naval aviator in the USMC.
Currently, my options are to enlist into the USMC (MOS aviation ordinance) attend ERAU (Embry Riddle daytona campus) the following spring of 2024, work through PLC and OCS to be able to commission into an officer upon graduation.
I also have the option to attend VMI, however not sure the chances of me getting a pilot slot after graduation. (if any one knows stats comparing VMI to plc and ocs on flight slots, that’d be great).

Unfortunately my top school is USMMA, still waiting for a response from them. However till then, my two options 2 options are ERAU under marine reserves as I go through PLC and OCS or VMI (virginia military institute).
 
I spent 5 years Enlisted Navy and have attended ERAU online for the last year, and I wouldn’t really recommend enlisting if the ultimate goal is to become an Aviator. I personally feel it’s a risky and roundabout route to get there, but I’m sure someone with more experience can provide more insight on it specifically, as I only recently accepted an appointment. Have you looked into ROTC options/scholarships anywhere else? I know TAMU is still accepting applications until June and they have a variety of ROTC scholarships you can apply for next year.
 
If you're looking at doing flight training at ERAU and then flying in the military, consider that you'd be spending exorbitant sums of money to get all your civilian certificates and ratings and then going to do basically the same thing in the Navy/Marine Corps. Not trying to discourage you at all (do what works best for you, of course) but just giving you something to consider. If you're not planning on flying at ERAU, then none of this applies, of course.
 
worded it wrong, my top school right now is USMMA.
It was obvious.

But a lesson everyone should pay attention to. @KPEngineer highlights the importance of good communication skills when speaking and writing.

Years ago I used to lecture my son on how text message language harms his communication skills. Spend the extra ten seconds to write text messages with proper English. Bad habits are hard to break.
 
A while back I wrote a thread about ATTENTION to DETAIL. I say again: Much of what plebes are subjected to are chapters in a course called ATTENTION to DETAIL. A seaman with years of experience didn't properly secure a bolt and a ferry and many lives were lost. A Martian probe, a joint product of the US and Europe, was lost because mph was used in the equations here, kph there. Numbers were programmed into the systems and there went 4 BILLION dollars. The Hubble telescope was not thoroughly checked out before being sent up. A few millimeters here and there and a service call was needed. Obviously one could go on. Lives, money, changed history. ATTENTION to DETAIL.
 
A while back I wrote a thread about ATTENTION to DETAIL. I say again: Much of what plebes are subjected to are chapters in a course called ATTENTION to DETAIL. A seaman with years of experience didn't properly secure a bolt and a ferry and many lives were lost. A Martian probe, a joint product of the US and Europe, was lost because mph was used in the equations here, kph there. Numbers were programmed into the systems and there went 4 BILLION dollars. The Hubble telescope was not thoroughly checked out before being sent up. A few millimeters here and there and a service call was needed. Obviously one could go on. Lives, money, changed history. ATTENTION to DETAIL.
I see this play out in the maritime industry all the time.

I have seen ships detained by the USCG over attention to detail. If enough "small" deficiencies attributable to a lack of attention to detail pile up and cross into multiple important areas, the lack of attention to detail can cause a detention. That detention takes a vessel off charter and can run up a bill of $1,000,000 in just a couple days. All those deficiencies are now on the internet and available to vetters. Vetters will not charter ships with enough deficiencies. The moral of the story ... a lack of attention to detail on a ship can in fact put a company out of business.
 
I see this play out in the maritime industry all the time.

I have seen ships detained by the USCG over attention to detail. If enough "small" deficiencies attributable to a lack of attention to detail pile up and cross into multiple important areas, the lack of attention to detail can cause a detention. That detention takes a vessel off charter and can run up a bill of $1,000,000 in just a couple days. All those deficiencies are now on the internet and available to vetters. Vetters will not charter ships with enough deficiencies. The moral of the story ... a lack of attention to detail on a ship can in fact put a company out of business.
Most of the claims I handle are due to lack of attention to detail. And generally, not just one thing, but a magical mix of a few that can result in millions of dollars in short order.
 
A while back I wrote a thread about ATTENTION to DETAIL. I say again: Much of what plebes are subjected to are chapters in a course called ATTENTION to DETAIL. A seaman with years of experience didn't properly secure a bolt and a ferry and many lives were lost. A Martian probe, a joint product of the US and Europe, was lost because mph was used in the equations here, kph there. Numbers were programmed into the systems and there went 4 BILLION dollars. The Hubble telescope was not thoroughly checked out before being sent up. A few millimeters here and there and a service call was needed. Obviously one could go on. Lives, money, changed history. ATTENTION to DETAIL.
If the seaman lived I will assume he faced some consequences. Who was held accountable for the Martian probe? The bolt is an operational issue, the Martain probe is a QA issue. How many layers of people were in place to capture a bad equation? What caused DoDMERB to be down for months, and who is accountable? Could you imagine your bank or Google being down for months? When there is no accountability or consequences attention to detail suffers.
 
Meanwhile, back on topic...

If you get into USMAA your options are clear, but if you don't you may be better served asking about alternatives where there's more direct experience. Maybe see what folks in the ROTC or the Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges forums on this site think. You may be better off going to some other school with a NROTC program and reapplying next year, or you could find a Norwich or TAMU that's still taking apps, or a third path that hasn't come up yet. It does sound like enlisting will make a longer path that's less certain, and ERAU may be expensive and uncertain, so poke around and see what those folks think about some Plan Ds for you.
 
If the seaman lived I will assume he faced some consequences. Who was held accountable for the Martian probe? The bolt is an operational issue, the Martain probe is a QA issue. How many layers of people were in place to capture a bad equation? What caused DoDMERB to be down for months, and who is accountable? Could you imagine your bank or Google being down for months? When there is no accountability or consequences attention to detail suffers.
Would Google being down for months be such a bad thing? I’m referring to looking up information, “Google it.” Somehow, we managed before it’s presence.
 
Would Google being down for months be such a bad thing? I’m referring to looking up information, “Google it.” Somehow, we managed before it’s presence.
I do work for a law firm writing laws and lawsuits.

Just talked to a lawyer how google (and Westlaw online) really makes a difference. Same thing in the accounting profession.

Many years ago we had to use volumes of books for research. Took hours. It now takes me minutes.
 
Meanwhile, back on topic...

If you get into USMAA your options are clear, but if you don't you may be better served asking about alternatives where there's more direct experience. Maybe see what folks in the ROTC or the Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges forums on this site think. You may be better off going to some other school with a NROTC program and reapplying next year, or you could find a Norwich or TAMU that's still taking apps, or a third path that hasn't come up yet. It does sound like enlisting will make a longer path that's less certain, and ERAU may be expensive and uncertain, so poke around and see what those folks think about some Plan Ds for you.
Seconding that ERAU is SUPER expensive. It’s a private college and the military/veteran rate is $250 a credit for online classes.
 
If the seaman lived I will assume he faced some consequences. Who was held accountable for the Martian probe? The bolt is an operational issue, the Martain probe is a QA issue. How many layers of people were in place to capture a bad equation? What caused DoDMERB to be down for months, and who is accountable? Could you imagine your bank or Google being down for months? When there is no accountability or consequences attention to detail suffers.
My point is that failure to adequately perform a task or check one's work can have serious consequences. Accountability is a major issue in the country today and I doubt the moderators want a political war on SAF. But yes, I agree that lack of accountability, even in seemingly routine situations, can lead to serious results.
 
Neeonlizard brings up some excellent points. ERAU is on my DS’s list of universities he will apply to this fall. I do contract work at ERAU and other universities in the southeast and yes ERAU is expensive. Current out of state estimated cost is $58,189 per year. That number include tuition & fees, room & dining plan, and books (estimated). That number is for Non Flight Undergraduate students. I have found that some state/public schools post only tuition rates, so do your research.

ERAU is a great school. I know two ERAU Daytona Aeronautical Science alumni who are professional pilots. One is a 737 Captain for a major carrier the other is a captain for a corporate charter company. ERAU, University of North Dakota, Perdue University, Middle Tennessee State, etc. are great universities to become a professional pilot. As others have stated above going to ERAU, UND, etc. for Aeronautical Science (flight training) then entering military aviation and doing the same thing defeats the purpose of ERAU, UND, etc. Aeronautical Science.

As for military aviation you should understand there are NO guarantees in military aviation. Do not self eliminate, go until someone in authority tells you no. Hopefully that will not happen to you but things can go sideways. I have known Air Force & Navy officers that have been selected for pilot/aviator and not passed the physical at Wright-Patterson/Pensacola. The DoDMERB physical is not the same as a USAF/USN/USCG flight physical. There was a post on this forum about a cadet/mid that was six weeks away from commissioning/graduating with a pilot/aviator slot and got popped on a drug test and now has to pay back the scholarship with enlisted time. In these 2 examples one is out of your control the other is result of bad judgement. The point here is to have a plan B with the military should the pilot/aviator option not work out.

As for becoming a pilot/aviator from the enlisted side I agree with others on this thread. Is it possible, yes, but the numbers are very low, think single digits closer to 2-3% than 9%. In the Air Force, Navy/USMC, USCG you still need a 4 year degree. The Army is the best option, IMHO, from the enlisted side. A short example of how that works goes like this: Enlist with a MOS in the aviation orbit (aviation power plant technician, avionics technician, etc.); make E-5 (may be a old requirement), be an outstanding soldier, apply for the Warrant Officer Aviation program. The Army has a “High School to Flight School” program but the success rate is low. I would ask a lot of questions about that one.

Back to the college subject I would look at ROTC programs at universities you can attend. I can tell you the NROTC program at ERAU DB has had little to no College Programmer (Non Scholarship) slots the last few years.

Best of luck to you!
 
I will also say that the Navy/USMC will care very little about what school you go to. In other words, go to ERAU because you want to major in Aeronautical Science or another major that they offer. Yes, ERAU is probably the most well-known pilot-mill college, but as others have said, there are no guarantees. You could have your CFI, MEI, and CFII and a ton of flight hours, but the Navy or Marines can very easily give you a SWO or Ground contract.
 
Neeonlizard brings up some excellent points. ERAU is on my DS’s list of universities he will apply to this fall. I do contract work at ERAU and other universities in the southeast and yes ERAU is expensive. Current out of state estimated cost is $58,189 per year. That number include tuition & fees, room & dining plan, and books (estimated). That number is for Non Flight Undergraduate students. I have found that some state/public schools post only tuition rates, so do your research.

ERAU is a great school. I know two ERAU Daytona Aeronautical Science alumni who are professional pilots. One is a 737 Captain for a major carrier the other is a captain for a corporate charter company. ERAU, University of North Dakota, Perdue University, Middle Tennessee State, etc. are great universities to become a professional pilot. As others have stated above going to ERAU, UND, etc. for Aeronautical Science (flight training) then entering military aviation and doing the same thing defeats the purpose of ERAU, UND, etc. Aeronautical Science.

As for military aviation you should understand there are NO guarantees in military aviation. Do not self eliminate, go until someone in authority tells you no. Hopefully that will not happen to you but things can go sideways. I have known Air Force & Navy officers that have been selected for pilot/aviator and not passed the physical at Wright-Patterson/Pensacola. The DoDMERB physical is not the same as a USAF/USN/USCG flight physical. There was a post on this forum about a cadet/mid that was six weeks away from commissioning/graduating with a pilot/aviator slot and got popped on a drug test and now has to pay back the scholarship with enlisted time. In these 2 examples one is out of your control the other is result of bad judgement. The point here is to have a plan B with the military should the pilot/aviator option not work out.

As for becoming a pilot/aviator from the enlisted side I agree with others on this thread. Is it possible, yes, but the numbers are very low, think single digits closer to 2-3% than 9%. In the Air Force, Navy/USMC, USCG you still need a 4 year degree. The Army is the best option, IMHO, from the enlisted side. A short example of how that works goes like this: Enlist with a MOS in the aviation orbit (aviation power plant technician, avionics technician, etc.); make E-5 (may be a old requirement), be an outstanding soldier, apply for the Warrant Officer Aviation program. The Army has a “High School to Flight School” program but the success rate is low. I would ask a lot of questions about that one.

Back to the college subject I would look at ROTC programs at universities you can attend. I can tell you the NROTC program at ERAU DB has had little to no College Programmer (Non Scholarship) slots the last few years.

Best of luck to you!
I made e-5 in just under two years as an Avionics Tech and have had at least 5 Naval officers from different communities tell me my best bet is to just get out and go to college to commission.

Also worth mentioning, the Army told me I was ineligible for “street to seat” and “high school to flight school” since I’m prior service.
 
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