NROTC 2013 students / parents

kinnem · Sep 1, 2012

Roxymom said:
My son's NROTC application should be complete in next few days. Is nomination needed ?
There's no mention on NROTC website but local recruiter said "yes"?

(He has applied to USNA also and requested nominations.)

Thanks

No nomination is needed for an NROTC scholarship or any xROTC scholarship. Nominations are only needed for service academy applications.

Roxymom · Sep 2, 2012

kinnem said:
No nomination is needed for an NROTC scholarship or any xROTC scholarship. Nominations are only needed for service academy applications.

Thank you for the confirmations. His recommendations are in process. This forum is wonderful.

USMCGrunt · Sep 2, 2012

There will be an interview with a senior Naval Officer or NCOS. Perhaps that is what the local recruiter meant?

Pima · Sep 2, 2012

I was thinking the same thing.

Roxymom · Sep 2, 2012

My son thought same. My husband was present when they met the Chief Petty Officer of the recruitment office who discussed going before a NROTC review board (4 chances).

From the NROTC website it said to have recruited review application prior to hitting send?

Hoping that his tier 1 choice helps chances. He is going to take SATs again in attempts at getting closer to 2000. He can easily get accepted to top 3 colleges and very likely to 4 and 5.

Its great to see him so organized with all this but in reality it seems like such a longshot.

49er · Sep 2, 2012

Roxymom - You mentioned taking the SAT again. I would recommend also taking the ACT and remember NROTC only uses the English and Math sections of the ACT (they convert those to scores to SAT scores). Some kids do better on the SAT, some do better on the ACT and some do about the same on both. My son struggled with the SAT but had much better scores on the ACT.

basilrathbone · Sep 2, 2012

Pima said:
jb,

That being said, it is important that all candidates remember college selection will be a part in the decision making process, thus, unlike AFROTC where you have 2 big boats (Tech vs Non-Tech), NROTC has lots of little boats that will be your competition and you need to place that into your consideration when looking at the true competition.

For example:
You apply to:
ERAU
VT
UVA
UNCCH
PSU

another candidate applies to:
TAMU
Villanova
Notre Dame
Purdue
GT

The stats really don't matter because neither one of you will be competing for a scholarship at the same school. The list matters. I say this because just by looking at stats some kids will become concerned that they are not on par with other candidates, thus, no scholarship, and some will become overly confident that the Congrats letter will be arriving in the mail anyday now.

Neither belief is 100% correct. All that is correct is the school choices are part of the process, NROTC is not going to force you to apply to a school you don't want to attend, thus they are going to put that into the equation. Stats do matter, but to make an informed decision you need to place everything into that equation, if you don't the answer will be different.

Maybe other NROTC parents can weigh in on this but what Pima is describing here doesn't line up with my understanding of the process of NROTC scholarship selection. We currently have 3 midshipmen, 1/C, 2/C, & 4/C. My understanding is that the two candidates Pima describes above do compete against each other directly if they are applying at the same time and with the same Tier of major. School choice doesn't come into play in receiving an NROTC scholarship. School choice matters where you are placed with your already received scholarship, which is a second step in the process. Both steps occur before the candidate is notified. I doubt that the board that selects scholarship recipients even attempts to weigh in on school placement. My understanding is that after a scholarship is awarded, they are placed into their first open unit on their list with the caveat that the placement office has a ratio of private/public scholarships to distribute. Applying early tends to increase odds of receiving a private school placement. Late in the process they may have only public school slots left to give out. Additionally, applying early increases chances to have the specific school still have open spots in their unit. School choice is critical for the student (and parents!) in the NROTC process, but not specifically in the initial competition for a scholarship.

I do agree that you can't compare straight stats between students unless you take into account which Tier they applied to and when they submitted. For instance, say a student submits their application in June with a Tier 1 major and receives a scholarship on the first board with a 3.2 GPA, 1170 SAT (M&V), varsity athlete, and normal EC's blah, blah, blah. A second student with 1470 SAT, 4.5 GPA, varsity captain, and same ECs applies in November as a Tier 3 major but doesn't get picked up for a scholarship. Given the Navy's preference for awarding scholarship that isn't an unlikely outcome. The second student will have had false hopes if only the normal stats were considered for his "chances" in comparing himself to the first scholarship recipient from the same year or the past 2 or 3 years. It doesn’t matter if they applied to the same schools or different schools.

However, school choice is a huge consideration for that ficticious first scholarship recipient. If he put as his first choice GT, UVA, UCB or some other very selective public school, he likely won't get in. However, he applied early so all of the Units were still open and he was put into his first choice. No one at the placement office considers whether a student has a shot at getting into the colleges on their list. It's not their job, that's the responsibility of the student. When the student doesn't get in to that selective public school, they need to put in for a transfer to another school. They now have less flexibility because they have currently an NROTC scholarship to a public school, which means they can transfer into another public school with an open unit. If they got into their second choice school and the Unit still has openings but it’s a private school, they will likely not be able to transfer in because they now have reserved one of the public school spots. Had the same student put MIT as their first choice and not gotten in, they would be able to transfer to their second choice private with an opening because they already have a private as their placement school.

I'm not at all suggesting that everyone should put a selective private school as their first school choice. Rather, if you apply early (which means you are in waiting mode already in September) and put a public as your first choice, make sure you look at as many public NROTC schools as you can. Call their Units and ask when they usually fill up. Make sure to apply to public NROTC schools that fill up late or rarely at all. Dream schools are great but every school has good and bad. Find the good in the alternate schools. The Navy requires adaptability and a good attitude. (Well, it at least sure helps) I think any adaptable student who wants to be a Naval Officer can learn to do just fine and thrive at any 4 year college even if they never heard of it prior to being placed in their Unit. If options are expanded then the ability to use the NROTC scholarship for a college degree and commissioning becomes much less complicated.

Over the past four years that we have been immersed in the NROTC world, we haven't noticed the huge decrease in scholarships that may be happening in other programs. The new NROTC class for our 4/C is consistent in numbers of scholarship mids as in the past four years or so. (We’ve only been in touch with about 10 units so others may have noticed a difference.) The new class for our 2/C mid's unit is an increase over his class which was an increase over the classes in front of his. Where we have seen a big drop off has been in the number of side load scholarships awarded during that same time frame.

The other big difference we've seen is in the ability to transfer schools during the scholarship process. When our 1/C mid transferred scholarship schools, it wasn't a big deal to transfer the scholarship between public and private. For both our 1/C and 2/C, transfers were also able to be done throughout the senior year in high school to any open unit even after receiving the scholarship. Also, during those years you could use your scholarship at any of the schools in the NROTC Unit. That changed at some point last year. I'm not sure when the change took place but it changed before the schools we were in contact with knew about it (they were still advising to apply to all schools in their Unit). It also took a few months to reflect on the website, well after our 4/C received a scholarship. We fortunately learned that before spending a few hundered dollars on application fees on other schools in the units. Last year there was also resistance to transferring any scholarships, even if the schools had openings, until sometime in the Spring so the placement office could do it all at once, I presume. There are likely new changes this year. Keep in mind that your recruiters and your Units may not know all of the changes. Be in touch with everyone.

jbrichmond22 · Sep 2, 2012

basilrathbone said:
Maybe other NROTC parents can weigh in on this but what Pima is describing here doesn't line up with my understanding of the process of NROTC scholarship selection. We currently have 3 midshipmen, 1/C, 2/C, & 4/C. My understanding is that the two candidates Pima describes above do compete against each other directly if they are applying at the same time and with the same Tier of major. School choice doesn't come into play in receiving an NROTC scholarship. School choice matters where you are placed with your already received scholarship, which is a second step in the process. Both steps occur before the candidate is notified. I doubt that the board that selects scholarship recipients even attempts to weigh in on school placement. My understanding is that after a scholarship is awarded, they are placed into their first open unit on their list with the caveat that the placement office has a ratio of private/public scholarships to distribute. Applying early tends to increase odds of receiving a private school placement. Late in the process they may have only public school slots left to give out. Additionally, applying early increases chances to have the specific school still have open spots in their unit. School choice is critical for the student (and parents!) in the NROTC process, but not specifically in the initial competition for a scholarship.

I do agree that you can't compare straight stats between students unless you take into account which Tier they applied to and when they submitted. For instance, say a student submits their application in June with a Tier 1 major and receives a scholarship on the first board with a 3.2 GPA, 1170 SAT (M&V), varsity athlete, and normal EC's blah, blah, blah. A second student with 1470 SAT, 4.5 GPA, varsity captain, and same ECs applies in November as a Tier 3 major but doesn't get picked up for a scholarship. Given the Navy's preference for awarding scholarship that isn't an unlikely outcome. The second student will have had false hopes if only the normal stats were considered for his "chances" in comparing himself to the first scholarship recipient from the same year or the past 2 or 3 years. It doesn’t matter if they applied to the same schools or different schools.

However, school choice is a huge consideration for that ficticious first scholarship recipient. If he put as his first choice GT, UVA, UCB or some other very selective public school, he likely won't get in. However, he applied early so all of the Units were still open and he was put into his first choice. No one at the placement office considers whether a student has a shot at getting into the colleges on their list. It's not their job, that's the responsibility of the student. When the student doesn't get in to that selective public school, they need to put in for a transfer to another school. They now have less flexibility because they have currently an NROTC scholarship to a public school, which means they can transfer into another public school with an open unit. If they got into their second choice school and the Unit still has openings but it’s a private school, they will likely not be able to transfer in because they now have reserved one of the public school spots. Had the same student put MIT as their first choice and not gotten in, they would be able to transfer to their second choice private with an opening because they already have a private as their placement school.

I'm not at all suggesting that everyone should put a selective private school as their first school choice. Rather, if you apply early (which means you are in waiting mode already in September) and put a public as your first choice, make sure you look at as many public NROTC schools as you can. Call their Units and ask when they usually fill up. Make sure to apply to public NROTC schools that fill up late or rarely at all. Dream schools are great but every school has good and bad. Find the good in the alternate schools. The Navy requires adaptability and a good attitude. (Well, it at least sure helps) I think any adaptable student who wants to be a Naval Officer can learn to do just fine and thrive at any 4 year college even if they never heard of it prior to being placed in their Unit. If options are expanded then the ability to use the NROTC scholarship for a college degree and commissioning becomes much less complicated.

Over the past four years that we have been immersed in the NROTC world, we haven't noticed the huge decrease in scholarships that may be happening in other programs. The new NROTC class for our 4/C is consistent in numbers of scholarship mids as in the past four years or so. (We’ve only been in touch with about 10 units so others may have noticed a difference.) The new class for our 2/C mid's unit is an increase over his class which was an increase over the classes in front of his. Where we have seen a big drop off has been in the number of side load scholarships awarded during that same time frame.

The other big difference we've seen is in the ability to transfer schools during the scholarship process. When our 1/C mid transferred scholarship schools, it wasn't a big deal to transfer the scholarship between public and private. For both our 1/C and 2/C, transfers were also able to be done throughout the senior year in high school to any open unit even after receiving the scholarship. Also, during those years you could use your scholarship at any of the schools in the NROTC Unit. That changed at some point last year. I'm not sure when the change took place but it changed before the schools we were in contact with knew about it (they were still advising to apply to all schools in their Unit). It also took a few months to reflect on the website, well after our 4/C received a scholarship. We fortunately learned that before spending a few hundered dollars on application fees on other schools in the units. Last year there was also resistance to transferring any scholarships, even if the schools had openings, until sometime in the Spring so the placement office could do it all at once, I presume. There are likely new changes this year. Keep in mind that your recruiters and your Units may not know all of the changes. Be in touch with everyone.

Wow, awesome feedback. That explains a lot and clears a lot of questions up. I hate the waiting game, but I am just glad I have submitted everything early to have the best shot possible. Thanks for all of the helpful information.

kinnem · Sep 2, 2012

basilrathbone said:
Maybe other NROTC parents can weigh in on this but what Pima is describing here doesn't line up with my understanding of the process of NROTC scholarship selection. We currently have 3 midshipmen, 1/C, 2/C, & 4/C. My understanding is that the two candidates Pima describes above do compete against each other directly if they are applying at the same time and with the same Tier of major. School choice doesn't come into play in receiving an NROTC scholarship. School choice matters where you are placed with your already received scholarship, which is a second step in the process. Both steps occur before the candidate is notified. I doubt that the board that selects scholarship recipients even attempts to weigh in on school placement. My understanding is that after a scholarship is awarded, they are placed into their first open unit on their list with the caveat that the placement office has a ratio of private/public scholarships to distribute. Applying early tends to increase odds of receiving a private school placement. Late in the process they may have only public school slots left to give out. Additionally, applying early increases chances to have the specific school still have open spots in their unit. School choice is critical for the student (and parents!) in the NROTC process, but not specifically in the initial competition for a scholarship.

I do agree that you can't compare straight stats between students unless you take into account which Tier they applied to and when they submitted. For instance, say a student submits their application in June with a Tier 1 major and receives a scholarship on the first board with a 3.2 GPA, 1170 SAT (M&V), varsity athlete, and normal EC's blah, blah, blah. A second student with 1470 SAT, 4.5 GPA, varsity captain, and same ECs applies in November as a Tier 3 major but doesn't get picked up for a scholarship. Given the Navy's preference for awarding scholarship that isn't an unlikely outcome. The second student will have had false hopes if only the normal stats were considered for his "chances" in comparing himself to the first scholarship recipient from the same year or the past 2 or 3 years. It doesn’t matter if they applied to the same schools or different schools.

However, school choice is a huge consideration for that ficticious first scholarship recipient. If he put as his first choice GT, UVA, UCB or some other very selective public school, he likely won't get in. However, he applied early so all of the Units were still open and he was put into his first choice. No one at the placement office considers whether a student has a shot at getting into the colleges on their list. It's not their job, that's the responsibility of the student. When the student doesn't get in to that selective public school, they need to put in for a transfer to another school. They now have less flexibility because they have currently an NROTC scholarship to a public school, which means they can transfer into another public school with an open unit. If they got into their second choice school and the Unit still has openings but it’s a private school, they will likely not be able to transfer in because they now have reserved one of the public school spots. Had the same student put MIT as their first choice and not gotten in, they would be able to transfer to their second choice private with an opening because they already have a private as their placement school.

I'm not at all suggesting that everyone should put a selective private school as their first school choice. Rather, if you apply early (which means you are in waiting mode already in September) and put a public as your first choice, make sure you look at as many public NROTC schools as you can. Call their Units and ask when they usually fill up. Make sure to apply to public NROTC schools that fill up late or rarely at all. Dream schools are great but every school has good and bad. Find the good in the alternate schools. The Navy requires adaptability and a good attitude. (Well, it at least sure helps) I think any adaptable student who wants to be a Naval Officer can learn to do just fine and thrive at any 4 year college even if they never heard of it prior to being placed in their Unit. If options are expanded then the ability to use the NROTC scholarship for a college degree and commissioning becomes much less complicated.

Over the past four years that we have been immersed in the NROTC world, we haven't noticed the huge decrease in scholarships that may be happening in other programs. The new NROTC class for our 4/C is consistent in numbers of scholarship mids as in the past four years or so. (We’ve only been in touch with about 10 units so others may have noticed a difference.) The new class for our 2/C mid's unit is an increase over his class which was an increase over the classes in front of his. Where we have seen a big drop off has been in the number of side load scholarships awarded during that same time frame.

The other big difference we've seen is in the ability to transfer schools during the scholarship process. When our 1/C mid transferred scholarship schools, it wasn't a big deal to transfer the scholarship between public and private. For both our 1/C and 2/C, transfers were also able to be done throughout the senior year in high school to any open unit even after receiving the scholarship. Also, during those years you could use your scholarship at any of the schools in the NROTC Unit. That changed at some point last year. I'm not sure when the change took place but it changed before the schools we were in contact with knew about it (they were still advising to apply to all schools in their Unit). It also took a few months to reflect on the website, well after our 4/C received a scholarship. We fortunately learned that before spending a few hundered dollars on application fees on other schools in the units. Last year there was also resistance to transferring any scholarships, even if the schools had openings, until sometime in the Spring so the placement office could do it all at once, I presume. There are likely new changes this year. Keep in mind that your recruiters and your Units may not know all of the changes. Be in touch with everyone.

This sounds right, but I think Pima's point was about what happens "at the margins". Two scholarship winners who listed same school as #1, but only one slot left. I expect the candidate with the higher whole person score gets the slot, although I suppose they might flip a coin. This could happen, in theory, for each school on a candidates list. This would explain why some kids get a scholarship at a school they never listed and never applied to.

asdf · Sep 2, 2012

When are the board dates and when do applications need to be in for each board?

basilrathbone · Sep 2, 2012

kinnem said:
This sounds right, but I think Pima's point was about what happens "at the margins". Two scholarship winners who listed same school as #1, but only one slot left. I expect the candidate with the higher whole person score gets the slot, although I suppose they might flip a coin. This could happen, in theory, for each school on a candidates list. This would explain why some kids get a scholarship at a school they never listed and never applied to.

The remarks I quoted were about competing for a scholarship in the first place, not about competing for a placement at a particular school after already receiving a scholarship. In the scenario you give, both already have received scholarships.

Clearly, some scholarship recipients are placed into schools not on their 5 listed, particularly those who receive scholarships late in the process or have listed 5 schools that fill up on the first board. I don’t think it’s epidemic but I’m sure it happens to a few every year. At that point, though, the hard part is done (scholarship!). If a student has contacted the Units prior to selection and asked about when they generally fill, they could have been already prepared for that possibility by researching other Units not on their list and applying to other schools, especially public NROTC schools that don’t fill up until late in the process. It took me two years of being immersed in this to figure that out. I would love to save some scholarship recipient and their parents unnecessary stress in the Spring by helping them to understand college placement in NROTC. I think the placement office for NROTC would also love to have every scholarship recipient already applied and accepted into a few backup NROTC schools in addition their original list of 5. Between our 3 midshipmen and their collective scholarship transfers (5 or 6 at least) I frankly owe that office a debt of gratitude.

kinnem · Sep 2, 2012

basilrathbone said:
The remarks I quoted were about competing for a scholarship in the first place, not about competing for a placement at a particular school after already receiving a scholarship. In the scenario you give, both already have received scholarships.

Clearly, some scholarship recipients are placed into schools not on their 5 listed, particularly those who receive scholarships late in the process or have listed 5 schools that fill up on the first board. I don’t think it’s epidemic but I’m sure it happens to a few every year. At that point, though, the hard part is done (scholarship!). If a student has contacted the Units prior to selection and asked about when they generally fill, they could have been already prepared for that possibility by researching other Units not on their list and applying to other schools, especially public NROTC schools that don’t fill up until late in the process. It took me two years of being immersed in this to figure that out. I would love to save some scholarship recipient and their parents unnecessary stress in the Spring by helping them to understand college placement in NROTC. I think the placement office for NROTC would also love to have every scholarship recipient already applied and accepted into a few backup NROTC schools in addition their original list of 5. Between our 3 midshipmen and their collective scholarship transfers (5 or 6 at least) I frankly owe that office a debt of gratitude.

I totally agree.

basilrathbone · Sep 2, 2012

asdf said:
When are the board dates and when do applications need to be in for each board?

I've never seen the board dates published but they usually have the first board at about this time of year.

It's hard to say when applications need to be in prior to each board without knowing how many others have applied and how many have already been processed or are being carried over to the next board. Submitting just prior to a board doesn't necessarily guarantee being looked at during that board. It could be that they limit the number of applications processed at each board. No matter what, earlier is better for NROTC. If you haven't submitted yet, submit soon.

Pima · Sep 2, 2012

For clarification, yes kinnem was correct. In the end there will always be 1 slot and 2 or more applicants left.

Roxymom · Sep 2, 2012

49er said:
Roxymom - You mentioned taking the SAT again. I would recommend also taking the ACT and remember NROTC only uses the English and Math sections of the ACT (they convert those to scores to SAT scores). Some kids do better on the SAT, some do better on the ACT and some do about the same on both. My son struggled with the SAT but had much better scores on the ACT.

Thanks-my son is going to register for the October ACT. I had looked earlier in the week but since I was unfamiliar with the site didn't realize there was a test being given locally in Oct.

basilrathbone · Sep 2, 2012

Pima said:
For clarification, yes kinnem was correct. In the end there will always be 1 slot and 2 or more applicants left.

My confusion is that you are talking about scholarship applicants whereas kinnem was referring to scholarship recipients. The difference isn’t just a matter of semantics, it’s systemic. I don’t mean to badger the point but it’s a pretty big difference if the scenario that you mentioned in your post that I quoted is true. Are you saying that’s a change for the new applicants this year? That would definitely change a lot for school selections for those applying for scholarships.

Pmh · Sep 3, 2012

Thank you for the helpful insight. I would be grateful for thoughts/advice relative to my DS' NROTC application. He has excellent credentials (1500+ SAT; 4.3GPA; 4-year varsity athlete; school vice president; section leader in nationally renowned school jazz band; National Honors Society; etc.). For a variety of reasons (some his fault, some not), he is just completing is NROTC application. Everything is with the local recruiter except the officer interview submission. He had his interview a few days ago with his BGO, and the recruiter is waiting to receive the interview summary. (He is also applying to the USNA and the BGO interview is for both NROTC and USNA). His five school choices include 4 top private universities (Cornell is top choice) plus Univ. of Michigan. He selected a tier 1 major. The comments above indicate that private schools tend to fill up early. Given that his application will not be in on time to be considered by the early boards, should he consider changing his school choices and/or applying to some more public universities that may not have otherwise been on his list? Thanks in advance for your responses!

jbrichmond22 · Sep 3, 2012

I dont think he will have a problem getting in anywhere if you were speaking of 1500+ math and verbal only, that is exceptional.

jiller59 · Sep 3, 2012

Pmh said:
Thank you for the helpful insight. I would be grateful for thoughts/advice relative to my DS' NROTC application. He has excellent credentials (1500+ SAT; 4.3GPA; 4-year varsity athlete; school vice president; section leader in nationally renowned school jazz band; National Honors Society; etc.). For a variety of reasons (some his fault, some not), he is just completing is NROTC application. Everything is with the local recruiter except the officer interview submission. He had his interview a few days ago with his BGO, and the recruiter is waiting to receive the interview summary. (He is also applying to the USNA and the BGO interview is for both NROTC and USNA). His five school choices include 4 top private universities (Cornell is top choice) plus Univ. of Michigan. He selected a tier 1 major. The comments above indicate that private schools tend to fill up early. Given that his application will not be in on time to be considered by the early boards, should he consider changing his school choices and/or applying to some more public universities that may not have otherwise been on his list? Thanks in advance for your responses!

These stats are very similar to my DS. His 1st choice school was University of Michigan. He was offered a scholarship at U of M at either the 1st or 2nd Board (as mentioned, the actual meeting dates are fuzzy). He is Midshipman 4/C at U of M - gave his oath 3 days ago!

kinnem · Sep 3, 2012

Pmh said:
Thank you for the helpful insight. I would be grateful for thoughts/advice relative to my DS' NROTC application. He has excellent credentials (1500+ SAT; 4.3GPA; 4-year varsity athlete; school vice president; section leader in nationally renowned school jazz band; National Honors Society; etc.). For a variety of reasons (some his fault, some not), he is just completing is NROTC application. Everything is with the local recruiter except the officer interview submission. He had his interview a few days ago with his BGO, and the recruiter is waiting to receive the interview summary. (He is also applying to the USNA and the BGO interview is for both NROTC and USNA). His five school choices include 4 top private universities (Cornell is top choice) plus Univ. of Michigan. He selected a tier 1 major. The comments above indicate that private schools tend to fill up early. Given that his application will not be in on time to be considered by the early boards, should he consider changing his school choices and/or applying to some more public universities that may not have otherwise been on his list? Thanks in advance for your responses!

If he has everything in already and its just waiting on the interview results from the BGO I expect he'll go before the first board. Didn't know the BGO interview could also count towards NROTC though. Not saying that's not the case, just that it's news to me.