NROTC and MO

[eaab08]

Hello! I am applying for an NROTC scholarship. I noticed that there was a MO too. Can I apply for scholarship consideration in both the marine option and the naval option? My reasoning behind this has two parts: one, I don't know which I would prefer, and two, I've heard that MO does not consider majors while NROTC uses the three tier system. My GPA and SAT are 4.0 (UW) and 1560 respectively so I think I would stand a very good chance of getting a scholarship, but if I had to choose between NROTC and MO now I would choose MO since I'm looking at a tier 3 major, and that would significantly dent my chances as I currently understand it.

 

[EEBTTF]

@eaab08 - No - You must select either NROTC or NROTC-MO. You are correct in that MO does not consider your academic major. How is your physical fitness? The physical fitness standards for the MO application are more stringent than the NROTC. Another consideration is that there are approximately 1500-2000 NROTC scholarships awarded and less than 300 MO.

If you want to be a Marine then choose MO - your academics look great. How are your leadership and athletics?

 

[eaab08]

Physical fitness is okay but not great. I'm not sure if MO had the same test for NROTC, but if it does then I took the CFA a couple days ago and got 90 for sit-ups, 55 for push-ups, and 7:11 for mile. I think if I took the NROTC test though my push-ups and mile would improve since I'm less tired. In fact I've maxed push-ups and ran ~ 6:00 for xc, so I'd expect those to improve greatly. If you know the different physical requirements for MO please share! I had trouble finding them and there was some conflicting info.

Leadership is okay but not great. I was captain of my school's academic team (think trivia or quizbowl), so not a coveted "captain of x sports team" but still some leadership. Also on the board for one of my clubs.

Athletics is pretty good, I'm a state/varsity/letter athlete for xc and swim, nothing too impressive (just because I go too state doesn't mean I do well at state, no championships), but I'm proud of it since I'm in a fairly competitive county+state.

Overall I don't think my application is too weak, but its definitely strongest in academics. I just can't see myself as an engineer and I think I would be happier studying economics or business. Starting to sound like MO is what I'll go for.

 

[EEBTTF]

Physical fitness is okay but not great. I'm not sure if MO had the same test for NROTC, but if it does then I took the CFA a couple days ago and got 90 for sit-ups, 55 for push-ups, and 7:11 for mile. I think if I took the NROTC test though my push-ups and mile would improve since I'm less tired. In fact I've maxed push-ups and ran ~ 6:00 for xc, so I'd expect those to improve greatly. If you know the different physical requirements for MO please share! I had trouble finding them and there was some conflicting info.

Leadership is okay but not great. I was captain of my school's academic team (think trivia or quizbowl), so not a coveted "captain of x sports team" but still some leadership. Also on the board for one of my clubs.

Athletics is pretty good, I'm a state/varsity/letter athlete for xc and swim, nothing too impressive (just because I go too state doesn't mean I do well at state, no championships), but I'm proud of it since I'm in a fairly competitive county+state.

Overall I don't think my application is too weak, but its definitely strongest in academics. I just can't see myself as an engineer and I think I would be happier studying economics or business. Starting to sound like MO is what I'll go for.

Thank you for the detailed response.

The NROTC-MO Physical Fitness Test (PFT) is completely different from the standard NROTC CFA. The NROTC-MO PFT will be administered by an active duty Marine and consists of (in this order) max set up pullups, crunches, and a 3mile run. The max on the pullups is 20, max on the crunches is 105 and max on the 3 mile run is 18 minutes. google USMC PFT Calculator to get an idea of where you would score. A score of 270 is average for NROTC-MO winners.

Leadership - The Marines are not looking for rocket scientist - they are looking for well rounded leaders (Athletics, Academics and Leadership.) SAT and ACT scores are important, but they want to find the young man or woman that has proven (as much as a high school student can) that they are leaders. Captain of a team, leader in the church....

Question for you - why are you pursing a NROTC or NROTC-MO scholarship.

Have you studied the various missions of the Navy and the Marines?

 

[eaab08]

Thank you for the detailed response.

The NROTC-MO Physical Fitness Test (PFT) is completely different from the standard NROTC CFA. The NROTC-MO PFT will be administered by an active duty Marine and consists of (in this order) max set up pullups, crunches, and a 3mile run. The max on the pullups is 20, max on the crunches is 105 and max on the 3 mile run is 18 minutes. google USMC PFT Calculator to get an idea of where you would score. A score of 270 is average for NROTC-MO winners.

Leadership - The Marines are not looking for rocket scientist - they are looking for well rounded leaders (Athletics, Academics and Leadership.) SAT and ACT scores are important, but they want to find the young man or woman that has proven (as much as a high school student can) that they are leaders. Captain of a team, leader in the church....

Question for you - why are you pursing a NROTC or NROTC-MO scholarship.

Have you studied the various missions of the Navy and the Marines?

Thanks for the detailed reply!

A score of 270 is average? Wow! I have some training to do. I think I'd be able to get there in a month though if I work hard enough.

I'm pursuing a scholarship as a backup. Right now my top choice is USNA, but if I happen to get rejected from there I'd still like a way to be in the military. It is one of a select few careers that I can imagine myself in. So as an extension of your question, I'm pursuing "military academics" because it combines higher education, something that I think suits me as opposed to immediately enlisting, with a job in the navy.

In terms of leadership, I have a lot of room to grow, no doubt. But hey, the military would be a great place to learn! I think leadership positions are definitely the weakest part of my application, and that problem is only exacerbated by my interest in programs geared towards leaders. I just hope the rest of my application can make up for that so I might be able to go to an academy/ROTC and work o improve my leadership skills.

This might be a little bit too much of an extrapolation, but based on your response it sounds like you might be worried there's a chance I'm only doing it for the scholarship since I was worried about likelihood of getting a scholarship and not just picking the one I wanted. I personally don't know which one is better for me, so I figured it would be best to apply for the one where I would most likely get a scholarship. Rest assured though that I'm not applying specifically for the scholarship. I could go to Georgia Tech with free tuition, but I would much rather go to a service academy or be in an ROTC program. I've always thought the military would be a good place for me, and right now ROTC or a service academy seem to be the logical next step. Of course, there's a chance you didn't mean that at all, in which case I sure look like a clown.

I can't say I've studied the missions of the Navy and Marines. To be honest I've always thought of the missions of all branches of the military to be along the same lines (defend America, protect other countries, you get the idea), just with different geographical specializations. Typing that out, it sounds a bit naive.

 

[EEBTTF]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

A score of 270 is average? Wow! I have some training to do. I think I'd be able to get there in a month though if I work hard enough.

I'm pursuing a scholarship as a backup. Right now my top choice is USNA, but if I happen to get rejected from there I'd still like a way to be in the military. It is one of a select few careers that I can imagine myself in. So as an extension of your question, I'm pursuing "military academics" because it combines higher education, something that I think suits me as opposed to immediately enlisting, with a job in the navy.

In terms of leadership, I have a lot of room to grow, no doubt. But hey, the military would be a great place to learn! I think leadership positions are definitely the weakest part of my application, and that problem is only exacerbated by my interest in programs geared towards leaders. I just hope the rest of my application can make up for that so I might be able to go to an academy/ROTC and work o improve my leadership skills.

This might be a little bit too much of an extrapolation, but based on your response it sounds like you might be worried there's a chance I'm only doing it for the scholarship since I was worried about likelihood of getting a scholarship and not just picking the one I wanted. I personally don't know which one is better for me, so I figured it would be best to apply for the one where I would most likely get a scholarship. Rest assured though that I'm not applying specifically for the scholarship. I could go to Georgia Tech with free tuition, but I would much rather go to a service academy or be in an ROTC program. I've always thought the military would be a good place for me, and right now ROTC or a service academy seem to be the logical next step. Of course, there's a chance you didn't mean that at all, in which case I sure look like a clown.

I can't say I've studied the missions of the Navy and Marines. To be honest I've always thought of the missions of all branches of the military to be along the same lines (defend America, protect other countries, you get the idea), just with different geographical specializations. Typing that out, it sounds a bit naive.

Good news is that you are putting a lot of thought into this. Sounds like you are from GA - so am I! From 100,000 ft, I am going to advise you that "I" think NROTC may be a better option than NROTC-MO. I commend your desire to serve and am confident that there is an avenue to get you there.

Have you looked at AROTC? It is similar to NROTC-MO with regards to un-importance of major and there are more AROTC scholarships awarded than any other branch.

With regards to the mission. Yes, you are correct in that the end goal is to defend the US, BUT there are many differences that need to be considered when choosing a branch. Spend some time researching the forum about the different careers for each branch. Work out details like - if you don't like the water, the Navy may not be the best option...

 

[Wahoo Fan]

I was thinking the exact same thing as the post above—you may fit best in Army ROTC. My son is immersed in the application process for USNA, NROTC-MO, and AROTC right now. Here is my personal take on the situation:

The Marines really, really require a great PFT score (which would be iffy for you to accomplish), they place a huge value on leadership (which is a weak point for you), and their academic standards seem lower (so your great academics wouldn’t score as many points with them). It doesn’t seem like you would be a great fit for NROTC-MO.

NROTC and USNA want really great academics (which you have), but they also want engineers (which you are not interested in).

Army will let you major in anything, and it is easier to get an AROTC scholarship if your application isn’t as strong in certain areas.

 

[kinnem]

No reason not to apply NROTC of any flavor AND apply AROTC. Nothing ventured, nothing gained

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Agree with all points above.

A few quick generalizations to add that by no means are absolute/ complete - just thoughts

Marines are regarded as an elite fighting force. They operate in the theater of combat. Some Marine pilots fly personnel into and out of the theater of combat at times - not near it - in it. Drop off Marines, medevac as needed. Think about that if that is your path, like 2 of my son's roommates. Pretty gutsy way to serve. Both NO and MO have fighter jets and helicopters. NO I think has a wider array of aircraft to fly as well.

MO midshipmen do not have to pass Calc I & II and Physics I & II in college - all 4 are requirements for the Navy option path.

The Marines care greatly about physical endurance and strength - respectfully their standards for physical performance are higher and their exercise demands / weekend marches are tougher than the NO midshipman path. MO options may march 12 miles all night on a weekend - not typical for NO.

Marines offer guaranteed aviation contracts - that means if you pass a batter of physical tests/ vision, aptitude you can guarantee a slot at flight school after commissioning. Navy option does not at this time.

Both paths are noble, earn respect. Neither is a cakewalk. IMO there are broader options on ways to serve as an officer in the NO with sub, surface warfare, aviation and warfare / seals et al. NO can lead a rigid boat crew and a group of soldiers in combat as my friend Andy did. MO officers lead groups of marines, can be pilots, and move to administrative roles too. Like others stated - do your own diligence, apply to each and then be in the position to decide armed with info.

Think too about primary, secondary top choices on how you would want to serve -this was the deciding factor for my DS in choosing between Army, Navy, Air Force ROTC options. The secondary choices had less appeal for the branches he did not choose.

Your GPA and SAT are exemplary but with the interviews a word of caution. A couple of nights ago, I spent a lot of time on the phone with a father of a current HS Sr from our HS - a classmate of my DD, who was just really annoyed at how his DS didn't get an AROTC scholarship in the first board. Similar stats to yours. It's just not all about GPA and grades - I do agree it helps greatly. He basically wanted to mansplain to me how the AROTC board are idiots for not immediately throwing rose petals at his son's feet. I advised that his son and you are in elite company and some of your fellow applicants are just rock stars - scholars, athletes, leaders, boys state, eagle scouts, NHS, leading change in their communities, maybe you are too. I like to see confidence but just be careful it doesn't come across as entitlement to those making your decisions.

think too about how you want to serve - do you want to be an in-out tactical force member - like SEALS. DO you want to live in a community and build trust/ relationships train locals like some Army Rangers?

Agree with guidance to learn more about the missions of each branch and the career paths within each. Thanks for your willingness to serve and good luck.

 

[eaab08]

Good news is that you are putting a lot of thought into this. Sounds like you are from GA - so am I! From 100,000 ft, I am going to advise you that "I" think NROTC may be a better option than NROTC-MO. I commend your desire to serve and am confident that there is an avenue to get you there.

Have you looked at AROTC? It is similar to NROTC-MO with regards to un-importance of major and there are more AROTC scholarships awarded than any other branch.

With regards to the mission. Yes, you are correct in that the end goal is to defend the US, BUT there are many differences that need to be considered when choosing a branch. Spend some time researching the forum about the different careers for each branch. Work out details like - if you don't like the water, the Navy may not be the best option...

I haven't looked at AROTC, but I think that I'd better. I think at some point in the USNA application process (which is still my top pick) I got "navy tunnel vision". It might seem counterintuitive to apply for AROTC when I'm applying to USNA and not West Point but I think I'm convinced that I should. I'm perfectly fine with the water, but I'm also starting to notice based on these replies that I might be better off applying to Navy rather than MO, scholarship chances aside I'd be a better fit for the Navy and that's what matters most.

I was thinking the exact same thing as the post above—you may fit best in Army ROTC. My son is immersed in the application process for USNA, NROTC-MO, and AROTC right now. Here is my personal take on the situation:

The Marines really, really require a great PFT score (which would be iffy for you to accomplish), they place a huge value on leadership (which is a weak point for you), and their academic standards seem lower (so your great academics wouldn’t score as many points with them). It doesn’t seem like you would be a great fit for NROTC-MO.

NROTC and USNA want really great academics (which you have), but they also want engineers (which you are not interested in).

Army will let you major in anything, and it is easier to get an AROTC scholarship if your application isn’t as strong in certain areas.

I'll for sure be applying to AROTC now. Another thing that I should probably consider is how important my major is to me. Sure, I think I'd be happiest with an economics major, but if I bit the bullet and majored in math or an engineering I don't think I'd necessarily be unhappy, and I doubt it would affect my career options drastically in the private sector if I ever choose to go there.

Agree with all points above.

A few quick generalizations to add that by no means are absolute/ complete - just thoughts

Marines are regarded as an elite fighting force. They operate in the theater of combat. Some Marine pilots fly personnel into and out of the theater of combat at times - not near it - in it. Drop off Marines, medevac as needed. Think about that if that is your path, like 2 of my son's roommates. Pretty gutsy way to serve. Both NO and MO have fighter jets and helicopters. NO I think has a wider array of aircraft to fly as well.

MO midshipmen do not have to pass Calc I & II and Physics I & II in college - all 4 are requirements for the Navy option path.

The Marines care greatly about physical endurance and strength - respectfully their standards for physical performance are higher and their exercise demands / weekend marches are tougher than the NO midshipman path. MO options may march 12 miles all night on a weekend - not typical for NO.

Marines offer guaranteed aviation contracts - that means if you pass a batter of physical tests/ vision, aptitude you can guarantee a slot at flight school after commissioning. Navy option does not at this time.

Both paths are noble, earn respect. Neither is a cakewalk. IMO there are broader options on ways to serve as an officer in the NO with sub, surface warfare, aviation and warfare / seals et al. NO can lead a rigid boat crew and a group of soldiers in combat as my friend Andy did. MO officers lead groups of marines, can be pilots, and move to administrative roles too. Like others stated - do your own diligence, apply to each and then be in the position to decide armed with info.

Think too about primary, secondary top choices on how you would want to serve -this was the deciding factor for my DS in choosing between Army, Navy, Air Force ROTC options. The secondary choices had less appeal for the branches he did not choose.

Your GPA and SAT are exemplary but with the interviews a word of caution. A couple of nights ago, I spent a lot of time on the phone with a father of a current HS Sr from our HS - a classmate of my DD, who was just really annoyed at how his DS didn't get an AROTC scholarship in the first board. Similar stats to yours. It's just not all about GPA and grades - I do agree it helps greatly. He basically wanted to mansplain to me how the AROTC board are idiots for not immediately throwing rose petals at his son's feet. I advised that his son and you are in elite company and some of your fellow applicants are just rock stars - scholars, athletes, leaders, boys state, eagle scouts, NHS, leading change in their communities, maybe you are too. I like to see confidence but just be careful it doesn't come across as entitlement to those making your decisions.

think too about how you want to serve - do you want to be an in-out tactical force member - like SEALS. DO you want to live in a community and build trust/ relationships train locals like some Army Rangers?

Agree with guidance to learn more about the missions of each branch and the career paths within each. Thanks for your willingness to serve and good luck.

Thanks for the comment! I never really considered it but it makes sense that the Marines are more "hands-on" in their activities. As cool as it would be to say that I was a marine, it might not be the path for me. I'm not especially interested in flying, so the big pro of guaranteed flight in the Marines is moot in my case.

You made a good point about the greater variety of options in the navy. I'd have to do more research but if I'm ever uncertain it makes the most sense to choose the option that closes the least doors.

I'm sorry to hear about your time on the phone, certainly doesn't sound enjoyable. I'd like to think that I've been humbled enough by my exposure to some truly smart people at math competitions to NOT come across as arrogant or more deserving of a scholarship solely based on academics. For better or for worse my parents seem to be of the opposite mindset. They tell me I won't get into the local community college... either way I have experience with interviews that went well for a couple of summer programs I applied to, so at the very least I know I don't completely screw the interviews up .

I'll be sure to do more research, and thanks all!

 

[Devil Doc]

Marine Corps mission-kill

 

[cb7893]

No reason not to apply NROTC of any flavor AND apply AROTC. Nothing ventured, nothing gained

This^ x 1000

@eaab08 ,

Your questions, responses and self-assessment show a high degree of maturity. If you were a stock, I’d buy you. If you were a horse I‘d bet on you.

Beyond echoing @kinnem I can only advise you that you are still young and have so much to learn about yourself. As much as you can, seek out upperclassmen and Junior officers, especially the O-2’s as they approach promotion to O-3. Don’t just ask them “So, how’s it working out for you?” Ask them how they settled on their service branch. How is/was the xROTC/SA experience? What did they envision for themselves when they were your age? What would they have done differently? Also, now that they are where they are, what do they envision for the next 3-5 years?

My O-3 DS, AROTC, had a similar CV to you. He lettered in Tennis. He was a very late bloomer and his natural athleticism didn’t show up until college. He approached academic competitions with all the intensity and bravado that Connor MacGregor took to his next UFC bout. He didn’t know exactly what he wanted to do, but he knew that he wanted a military career after college and he felt the Army gave him the greatest number of options. Most important, he saw that ROTC gave him opportunities And experience during college that couldn’t be replicated. As time went on and he learned more about himself and the Army, his horizons narrowed and his focus sharpened. That process takes time and there is no need to rush it.

BTW, he received an early acceptance and AROTC scholarship to GA Tech. We’re OOS. He really liked the Recruitment Officer. It really looked like the perfect fit on paper, but the vibe of the school and in particular, the Chairman of the Chem E department was off putting. He ended up at Big 10 U where they acted like they really wanted him. It is often the little things that matter.

Keep us posted on your progress and decisions.

Best of luck!

 

[cb7893]

DO you want to live in a community and build trust/ relationships train locals like some Army Rangers?

That is the domain of Army Special Forces, many of whom are Ranger qualified. Being Ranger qualified is not the same as being an Army Ranger.

 

[CuriousMid1001]

I don’t think this has been said yet, but whichever option you pick (NO/MO) if once at your unit you realize the other option is the right fit, your advisors can assist you in submitting a package to do so. It’s not all that intensive - just a few essays and reasons for making the switch. It has certainly been done before and is not a major issue, so long as you have been putting your best foot forward at your command.

Another thing to consider since you mentioned your interested in flying, the marines offer some Midshipman a guaranteed aviation MOS after TBS. Something more to consider as the NO does not offer this.

Good Luck! Your CV looks impressive and I’m sure you’ll have options.

 

[Devil Doc]

I don’t think this has been said yet, but whichever option you pick (NO/MO) if once at your unit you realize the other option is the right fit, your advisors can assist you in submitting a package to do so. It’s not all that intensive - just a few essays and reasons for making the switch. It has certainly been done before and is not a major issue, so long as you have been putting your best foot forward at your command.

Another thing to consider since you mentioned your interested in flying, the marines offer some Midshipman a guaranteed aviation MOS after TBS. Something more to consider as the NO does not offer this.

OP wrote this above:
“I'm not especially interested in flying, so the big pro of guaranteed flight in the Marines is moot in my case.”

 

[EEBTTF]

I don’t think this has been said yet, but whichever option you pick (NO/MO) if once at your unit you realize the other option is the right fit, your advisors can assist you in submitting a package to do so. It’s not all that intensive - just a few essays and reasons for making the switch. It has certainly been done before and is not a major issue, so long as you have been putting your best foot forward at your command.

Another thing to consider since you mentioned your interested in flying, the marines offer some Midshipman a guaranteed aviation MOS after TBS. Something more to consider as the NO does not offer this.

Good Luck! Your CV looks impressive and I’m sure you’ll have options.

@CuriousMid1001 - unless something has changed, in order to change a NROTC scholarship to a MO - you would have to submit a side load application. Its a very competitive process.

 

[eaab08]

This^ x 1000

@eaab08 ,

Your questions, responses and self-assessment show a high degree of maturity. If you were a stock, I’d buy you. If you were a horse I‘d bet on you.

Beyond echoing @kinnem I can only advise you that you are still young and have so much to learn about yourself. As much as you can, seek out upperclassmen and Junior officers, especially the O-2’s as they approach promotion to O-3. Don’t just ask them “So, how’s it working out for you?” Ask them how they settled on their service branch. How is/was the xROTC/SA experience? What did they envision for themselves when they were your age? What would they have done differently? Also, now that they are where they are, what do they envision for the next 3-5 years?

My O-3 DS, AROTC, had a similar CV to you. He lettered in Tennis. He was a very late bloomer and his natural athleticism didn’t show up until college. He approached academic competitions with all the intensity and bravado that Connor MacGregor took to his next UFC bout. He didn’t know exactly what he wanted to do, but he knew that he wanted a military career after college and he felt the Army gave him the greatest number of options. Most important, he saw that ROTC gave him opportunities And experience during college that couldn’t be replicated. As time went on and he learned more about himself and the Army, his horizons narrowed and his focus sharpened. That process takes time and there is no need to rush it.

BTW, he received an early acceptance and AROTC scholarship to GA Tech. We’re OOS. He really liked the Recruitment Officer. It really looked like the perfect fit on paper, but the vibe of the school and in particular, the Chairman of the Chem E department was off putting. He ended up at Big 10 U where they acted like they really wanted him. It is often the little things that matter.

Keep us posted on your progress and decisions.

Best of luck!

Thanks!

I've been trying to do that. There are a couple people I knew in HS who have graduated (one to USAFA and another to AROTC), so while they haven't commissioned yet (both were just one year older), its nice to get their perspective on things/ see how things are going for them. I haven't actually talked to someone one-on-one who is an officer yet but hopefully I'll get to so I can get their experience. Building off my high school connections, there are some siblings-of-friends who I might be able to ask.

Wow! Your son and I sound pretty similar, even down to GA Tech. My brother goes there right now and I think I know what you mean when you say the vibe is "offputting". Based on the workload it seems downright unhealthy. I'd still be happy to go there, and I've even been dual enrolled there for a couple of semesters, but I think there are other schools that are better fits.

 

[nrotcmid23]

Your grades and SAT scores are good enough where I would suggest going for a tier-3 major if that's what you want. Something to remember is that yes, applying for tier 3 does lower your chances of getting a scholarship, but there are still plenty of people who get tier 3 scholarships (myself included). There is a possibility that you are in a position where you could get a tier 2 major, but won't be able to get the tier 3 major, but there's absolutely no way of knowing if that is the case.

Another thing to think about is what is your worse case plan? Can you put yourself through the first year of college as a college programmer (whether by yourself or with financial aid), or do you need a scholarship?

If you have any questions about NROTC feel free to PM me/post them here.

 

[ProudDad17]

I'll echo the above, do not apply for a tier 1 or 2 major if it does not interest you. You will be happier and more successful studying something that interests you. Yes, there are fewer tier 3 scholarships awarded, but also fewer people applying with tier 3 majors. You may be able to win one of these scholarships. If not, if you end up going NROTC, you could do the first year as a college programmer without a scholarship, work your butt off to show your motivation and potential and apply for a 3 year side load scholarship.

 

[USMCGrunt]

Marine Corps mission-kill

The "textbook" version: The mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, or repel the enemy assault by fire and close combat.