NROTC and USNA

[Severnriver]

I am extremely interested in attending USNA, have submitted all applications, taken the medical, and submitted all applications for nominations. I am only applying to USNA-I realize that this is sometimes frowned upon, but I am certain that I want to be a naval officer-via USNA if at all possible. This is because several of my family members have attended the school. I have visited many times, have attended NASS etc.


That said, I have been given the impression (not from family members) from online reading that I should strengthen my USNA application, and provide a backup, by applying to NROTC (I am a rising senior). I have also received a barrage of emails from NROTC recruiters encouraging me to apply-how did they get my info?? My BGO feels I should apply to NROTC as well. I have started the application, but have been on the fence about finishing it. I am not hesitant about being involved in ROTC, but would rather approach it in a non-scholarship way. If I may speak freely-it's not about the money.


If I don’t get into USNA on the first go, directly out of HS, I plan to apply again, after 1 year of civilian college. I’d like to explore options of ROTC once I get to college. If I don’t get into USNA on the second go, I plan to look into OCS etc. - I will be a naval officer-I am committed to this but want to do it in my own way. I would rather not take a scholarship that I really don’t need that could go to someone who really needs help with tuition. It bothers me that candidates for USNA are encouraged to apply to NROTC to make themselves more attractive to admissions. Is it wrong for me to think this way?? Am I selling myself short by not applying to NROTC and will it hurt my chances at USNA if I don’t?? Additionally, there is so much info out there on NROTC but not much on non-scholarship options and OCS for college students. At least where I’ve been looking. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[USMAROTCFamily]

I do not think applying for a NROTC scholarship is a way "to strengthen" your USNA application for their admissions; It is a way to provide a "Plan B" for the many who do NOT get into USNA. It can also show a commitment to wanting to be a Naval officer when you appear before nomination boards. They want to see that you really want to be in the Navy and not just go to USNA. If you are set on being an officer in then Navy, then I don't know why you would not consider a NROTC scholarship. Why would you turn down that resource even if you have great wealth? It allows the funds that you/your parents would have spent to be used for college to pay for grad school, down payment on a house, etc. Being on scholarship allows you to go to summer training that you wouldn't be able to experience if you don't have a scholarship, as well. But to each his own, do as you wish.

 

[MidCakePa]

Interesting approach that you’re taking. Sounds like your main goal is to become a naval officer, not just attend USNA, and that’s the most important thing. Now put yourself in the Navy’s shoes. In considering whether to accept you to USNA, they want to know that becoming an officer is primary for you, and a great way of determining that is to know whether you’re also applying for an ROTC scholarship. Because who would turn down a four-year scholarship to achieve their ultimate goal, right? (This is where your BGO is coming from, and this is what makes you look “more attractive.”)

The great value of an ROTC scholarship is “option value.” For example, say you don’t get into USNA. You can attend a civilian college while awaiting the next application round. Say you don’t get in again. You’re still on a path toward a commission, you’ll get some opportunities not open to non-scholarship mids, and tuition is paid for. Or if it turns out you love the ROTC route, you can pass on USNA and still have tuition paid for. OCS is an option too, but it’s mercurial, depending on the needs of the Navy. At worst, should you apply for and receive an ROTC scholarship, you can always decline it. But again, you have the option to use it, and options are rarely a bad thing.

Your desire to “not take money you don’t need” is a very personal one. But it’s also quite counterintuitive and surely not one the Navy sees often. Optics matter, and being on scholarship shows a level of commitment that can be important when reapplying or when commissioning out of ROTC.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Applying for NROTC is viewed favorably as it demonstrates committment to being a Naval Officer , not just attending USNA. It is a "check the box" comment on the BGO Interview form. If you don't apply for NROTC, I would recommend that your BGO fully understands your reasoning and committment to serving as a Naval Officer.

As an aside, the flaw I see in your rationale is that you see OCS as a good fall back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with OCS, but there are a number of threads on this Forum that explain where OCS falls on the Officer accession spectrum. I can't describe it as eloquently as others here have -- but essentially its kind of the check valve that gets turned on and off to meet the needs of the Navy. USNA and NROTC accessions are pretty steady, but the needs of the Navy vary, so sometimes there will be alot of billets, sometimes few. In other words, when times get tight, opportunities at OCS might be reduced. This doesn't necessarily mean that once you are accepted and earn a commission that your career opportunities are limited; an Ensign is an Ensign. As I've said before, I do think an USNA Ensign may have a head start at their first command, but by the time you make LT, I really don't think the commissioning source is all that relevant.

 

[kinnem]

Agree with all of the above, especially about OCS being a variable spigot to top off the recruitment pail. Some years there are almost no slots available.
Also, you need to contract via NROTC at some point anyway in order to commission. Why not up front right out of the gate? That will allow you to attend summer training and give you some pocket money (stipend) and cover tuition.
I think not wanting to take away a scholarship from someone else who needs it is noble. Now, do your parents share that attitude? Why not ask them, unless, of course, you are independently wealthy in your own right? College tuition is usually a family endeavor and your family ought to be involved in the decision.

 

[Dadof2]

It bothers me that candidates for USNA are encouraged to apply to NROTC to make themselves more attractive to admissions

Not sure why this should bother you. As others have stated, applying for NROTC demonstrates your commitment to wanting to be a Naval Officer. This is why USNA likes to see it. They want to see that you want to attend USNA as a path toward commissioning, with commissioning being the true goal, not just that you want to attend USNA.

Am I selling myself short by not applying to NROTC and will it hurt my chances at USNA if I don’t??

Possibly, yes to both. As I see it, there is really no downside for you to also apply for ROTC scholarship. If you don't get into USNA the first try and reapply from college/ROTC you have a year to show you can do well at college level courses, plus a year of ROTC experience and another potential nom source. If you get in to USNA on the second try out of college you can get out of ROTC to join USNA. ROTC can only help you toward your stated goal of becoming an officer.

If you don't get into USNA and you also don't get a ROTC scholarship you can still attend a college with NROTC and join as a college programmer. Once there you can apply for a 3 yr or 2 yr scholarship. If you don't get a scholarship you will have to be selected for Advanced Standing to continue in ROTC your junior and senior years of college. Having a scholarship is not only good from the money standpoint but it is an opportunity to secure a commission earlier. Banking on OCS working out if USNA doesn't could be risky as pointed out by previous replies.

It seems that the only reason you have offered for not wanting to seek a ROTC scholarship is that you don't need or want to "take" the money. Sorry, but this argument makes no sense to me at all. You are essentially "taking" USNA money (which is more in total than ROTC would be) if you go that route so what is the difference? Either way you are being partially or fully compensated for an education and signing up for a minimum service requirement in return.

I suggest you focus on the long term goal and if you truly want to commission as a Naval Officer, ROTC increases your chances of getting there.

 

[THParent]

Do you know what they call a USNA graduate, a NROTC graduate, and a college graduate who has gone through OCS when they are standing next to each other?

Ensign.

The only difference between those three butter bars is what it says on their rings.
The Navy only cares that they have new O-1s to fill billets opened up by newly-promoted O-2s.

 

[CitadelN88]

If you seek Naval commission and the cadet/midshipman life style you have many options.

VMI - 1 of 500 . The most 'pure' of the Senior Military Colleges. VMI is first , last and only the corps.
Citadel - Still a 24 x 7 military experience. There are some day students on campus mostly active duty enlisted trying to get a degree. The South Carolina Corps of Cadets is about 2,300 these days and Freshman classes start at ~800

Texas A&M - the Corps is a small fraction of students and you're assigned to outfits or batteries not companies. The Aggie Band is nothing short of amazing
VA Tech + Norwich I don't know a lot about these. You'll be co-located with a 'normal' college. This could be good and offer opportunities the more restrictive environments do not.

You can go from NROTC to the USNA as well I believe, at least you could back in the day. I suspect if you started at VMI, Citadel or A&M you will bond to your Class and Corps to the point even if offered USNA admission you'd not accept it.

Good luck , not a bad choice to be made

 

[time2]

I have been given the impression (not from family members) from online reading....

You can't assume everything you have read online is current/accurate or even good advice. You will finds lots of websites where people fling out random opinions or simply guess at things when in reality they have no idea what they are talking about. Forums such as these are a better source of information since you will hear from a wide variety of those currently involved in the process and it is moderated to keeps things from getting out of hand.

ROTC/NROTC are typically considered as Plan B options. If a candidate tells their MOC during the interview they are ONLY applying to USNA and have not looked into, considered or not even aware of other options, it will probably result in more questions about someone's true intent. Those who apply because of the 'free' education or saw it on a list of 'prestigious' schools without doing adequate homework, won't be able to explain their motivation.

The good thing is the OP seems to have a good grasp of USNA from first-hand knowledge/family members, etc. If you can clearly explain your interest/intent to your MOC and BGO, then you are on the right path. Lots of older threads on this subject and some good advice also posted above. Even if you still only intend to apply to USNA, regardless of your resume, you need to have Plan B options as well. Far more apply then get appointments each year.

 

[MoSwimmer66]

I haven't seen anyone comment on the challenges attending as NROTC and doing a Varsity\NCAA Div 1 sport at a civilian college and doing so at USNA. My read is that combining academics, D1 & NROTC may be an insurmountable task at a civilian college v. USNA where the 3 competing demands are built in. Sure, civilian NROTC and USNA will get you to the ultimate goal of being a Naval Officer, but should one have to sacrifice playing on a D1 sport in college too. I just don't see that there are that many spare hours of the day to drill with NROTC and meet the demands of D1 at a civilian college. So, USNA may be an athlete\Naval Officer's best - if not only - option.

 

[Dadof2]

I just don't see that there are that many spare hours of the day to drill with NROTC and meet the demands of D1 at a civilian college. So, USNA may be an athlete\Naval Officer's best - if not only - option.

I'm not so sure it is any easier to be an athlete at USNA versus a civilian college with ROTC. Lots of demands with both. My USNA Mid does a club sport and even that is a tough balance. A varsity level\NCAA Div 1 sport at USNA would be even more demanding. @NavyHoops could probably chime in on this.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

USNA where the 3 competing demands are built in.

???

I'm not so sure it is any easier to be an athlete at USNA versus a civilian college with ROTC

^ This ..

I'm not sure how 3 competing demands are built in at USNA, but perhaps the integration of the academics, military training and sports means that each the stakeholders has a better understanding of the demands you are facing. That being said, I wouldn't expect professors, military training or coaches to cut any slack. NROTC at least gives you a break between the three elements .. you might be able to go home to your dorm at night and relax a bit.

No matter how you look at it, being a D1 athlete in college is difficult,and adding military training on top makes it harder. I have a lot of respect for those that can handle it at USNA. If I had a candidate that explained that he /she didn't appy to NROTC because they wanted to play D1 Sports, and didn't think they could include NROTC in the schedule, I wouldn't second guess the decision,

 

[MidCakePa]

As I believe NavyHoops (the absolute authority on this sort of thing) would testify, the attrition rate among varsity athletes at USNA is high. And that’s within a cohesive and integrated system in which sports, academics and military are meant to coexist. Anyone contemplating this route should have a very clear and honest sense of what’s more important to them — becoming an officer or playing D1.

 

[OldRetSWO]

As I believe NavyHoops (the absolute authority on this sort of thing) would testify, the attrition rate among varsity athletes at USNA is high. And that’s within a cohesive and integrated system in which sports, academics and military are meant to coexist. Anyone contemplating this route should have a very clear and honest sense of what’s more important to them — becoming an officer or playing D1.

Actually the attrition rate for many/most varsity sports at USNA is LOWER than the Brigade Average according to news releases over the past years.
If you research this, you can come up with specific stats.
Class of 2017 - overall graduation rate was 89.4% and Varsity Athletes were 92.4%.

By the way, Navyhoops is not the only poster with expertise here - I had 8 varsity seasons at USNA and SonOfOldRetSWO had 6 varsity seasons (same team). I
also coached at USNA after I graduated.

Anecdotally, regarding retention of athletes back in the day, I think that they were generally better than non-athletes of the time. We had well over 30% attrition but
within my company and team, not too many varsity athletes left.

Grade wise - I came from a very poor high school (among worst in my state) and adapting to USNA level work was very hard at first but after a nearly unsat plebe year, I ended up in the top half of my class even with the conflicting demands on my time. My son had a much better background and finished a little out of the top 100 in his class.

 

[NavyHoops]

Just to be clear I think many are referencing the attrition rates of remaining with a sport at USNA, not the rate of athletes vs non-athletes remaining at USNA.

 

[MidCakePa]

Hat tip to OldRetSWO. Thanks for bringing your experience and expertise.

To clarify my comment about “attrition,” I meant from their team, not from the academy itself. Many quit their team but stay at the academy.

 

[OldRetSWO]

To clarify my comment about “attrition,” I meant from their team, not from the academy itself. Many quit their team but stay at the academy.

Definitely true - as we advanced through the years, some teammates dropped away - usually they were not the "travelling team/first squad" and as new classes with
sometimes talented plebes came in, they saw less need for their participation. I was usually not "first squad" but I felt it important to keep competing to push
them to be better and better. Many of us competed in fleet/all navy level and higher after graduation and kept pushing each other.

 

[THParent]

Don't apologize for just applying to USNA.
If that's where you want to be and where you think you'll fit, then it would be downright odd to apply to another academy.
That's just my opinion, and I'm not talking smack about any of those other fine institutions.

 

[time2]

If I had a candidate that explained that he /she didn't apply to NROTC because they wanted to play D1 Sports, and didn't think they could include NROTC in the schedule, I wouldn't second guess the decision

I agree. The OP never mentioned D1 athletics, so it seems we are now discussing a different topic. Lots of older threads about sports, but until you know all of the demands on your time and how well you will do academically, you need to think about how playing a D1 sport at any SA can be a huge time issue. Yes, some can do all of those things (at either USNA or in NROTC), but many cannot and frankly for someone still in high school, you won't know until you are in the program which category you are in. Everyone at USNA does not play a D1 sport. It certainly would not be the main reason to choose one path over the other. If your grades suffer to the point you get separated academically, then you had your priorities wrong.

 

[WIMOM]

My DS will be be doing D1 sports, NROTC, and engineering as a freshman and has run into conflicts already. DS understands sporting events will be missed with NROTC obligations. He has the NROTC scholarship and is reapplying to the Naval Academy. He has a lot on his plate this academic year.