NROTC - Marines - Ambitious Academic Plans - LIFE Questions

Capt MJ said:
I recommend our self-described brainiac OP research DARPA as a target career assignment. There are plenty of warrior-scholar-engineer-scientists in all the services. Marines just make sure everyone is a warrior first, and that’s their brand.

I’m quite serious about this recommendation.



DARPA is a interesting place. If you knew what they did.
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Thanks for the tip! I'll take a look at this sometime later today!
 
NavyHoops said:
Well put by @trackandfield08. As a former Marine, I couldn't of said it better myself. Please read and re-read and then read their post again.

I served as a Marine Officer some years ago, but not that many years ago. I was a USNA grad. I spent 5 years in uniform and then spent 10 years working for the Marine Corps in civilian clothes side by side with Marines daily (and traveling to units frequently). I transitioned to another career field a few years ago.
  • It's true no one cares about your degree. Your Marines care what kind of officer you are. Having a 4.0 in engineering does not equate to being a good officer. Sure it means you are book smart, but does that mean you are situationally aware, can make decisions under pressure (like bullets flying, with a radio in hand, calling for fire, and directing your Marines level of pressure), lead with compassion yet still stern and a variety of other things. I had gone to a unit to do some testing with a Comm unit a few years ago. They had a brand new 2ndLt from MIT. He was great at the technology, but he was a total useless officer. In other services that have career fields dedicated to research, developmental engineering, etc. his skill set could be useful. The Marines want leaders first and foremost.
  • Education does come into play as you progress as a Marine. It can mean what you get selected to study for grad school and pay back tours. It could lead to a Masters in System Engineering at NPS with a pay back at Marine Corps System Command or another acquisition or testing command. The Marine Corps does have an Acquisition Secondary MOS now. Many officers who do their payback tour after a Masters will apply for this MOS during that payback tour. It would mean staying in that field afterwards. The majority of developing, building, testing and fielding equipment in the Marine Corps is done by civilians and contracting companies. But there are Marines who play a critical role in providing that "voice of the field", working with various units, approving designs, approving test events, etc.
  • This might not be a very accepted opinion, but this is my opinion alone... out of all the Services it is my opinion that the Marine Corps does not value or push education as much as the other services. The Marine Corps embraces their crayon eating culture. They are great at what they do. I wish we pushed education more for our younger Marines. The Marine Corps, as an officer, is first and foremost about being a leader. I pursued a Masters while in uniform and really no one cared. They have appropriate level PME and reading lists which are great and I highly pushed with my Marines. I also pushed my Marines to take advantage tuition assistance and take college courses, not enough do in my opinion.
  • You will be judged by your Marines on leadership. Your peers will judge you on a variety of things... your leadership, your willingness to help out your peers, PT (this actually plays a big role in how you are viewed by all), etc.
  • I have no idea if NROTC is like the Marine Corps as I was never in NROTC. Your summer at OCS will not be like NROTC. TBS is a weird place to be honest. We always joked and called it halfway house for officers. It's not free reign, but its not someone holding your hand either. When I went through USNA grads had no issue with TBS. Leatherneck prepared us well, we were used to the reindeer games and knew the area. I had two NROTC room mates who struggled (they were the exception and honestly I have no idea what they were doing in the USMC). Most ROTC grads did very well at TBS. The fleet can vary in how life is. Some days it's like a normal job. Other days you are in the field. Maybe you spend a month in 29 Palms or Sweden.
  • You better be fit. It doesn't mean you need to be a D1 athlete, it means you are in shape and can lead runs and hikes. Bodies break in the USMC under weight. Running in shorts and shoes is not that hard in the larger picture, but hiking 20 miles in heat with 100lbs is another story.
  • Thick skin - you better find it. Marines like to joke and are blunt. They will not mince words. Part of the ROTC process is learning how to develop that thick skin as you prepare for OCS. Bottom line, learn to listen, watch and learn. Take feedback and improve.
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Thanks for giving the long, sincere answer instead of the short answer! Definitely needed to hear this.
Turns out my NROTC unit's MOI is making us do the Plank on the PFT. I have a 300 PFT with the crucnh, but I'll probably have to take a couple months to fully transition to the Plank. Should be interesting.
 
ProudDad17 said:
I hope by now you have re-read your post and see how it could be viewed as arrogant and demeaning, although I don't believe that was your intention. To address your degree goals, a double major would be very ambitious. A minor would likely be doable. You will have to submit an academic plan to your NROTC advisor that outlines how you will graduate with your degree in 4 years. If you can fit the extras in during that time, good for you. I have also worked around a lot of very educated and "intelligent" individuals in an academic setting who excel in their academic fields, but are totally lost in the "real" world. No common sense, can't make a restaurant reservation, plan a route to an unfamiliar location or engage in any kind of social human interaction. Lastly, to the thick skin. As others have said, the most important part of that is learning not to take it personally. Everyone screws up. If you screw up, you may get chewed out. If you say or do something stupid, you can expect others to notice and jump on the opportunity to give you grief about it, either good natured ribbing or serious "correction", depending on the situation. If you do not develop that thick skin, life will be hard, no matter where you are. Don't expect it yo develop overnight. I fell like it comes with maturity and self-confidence.
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Yes, Sir. Sorry if I did come off that way. I didn't mean to sound arrogant or selfish. I definitely needed to hear this. Thanks a lot!
 
cb7893 said:
Wow! @trackandfield08 and @NavyHoops nailed it.

You didn't tell us if you are on an NROTC or NROTC-MO scholarship.

The only advice I would add is that at this stage of your life you know very little about yourself. You have lived in a cocoon of friends (of your choosing) and family (not of your choosing). Have your time management skills really been tested? Do you know what an Engineering curriculum even looks like? You will need to step up your game in every aspect of your maturation as a mid/student/person.

You come across as a clone of my DS as a 17-18 year old, before heading off the college with an AROTC scholarship to study Chemical Engineering. Academically off the charts. Classic Generalist. He was a varsity tennis player but very much a late bloomer. Competitive to the point of alienating people. Show off extraordinaire. He began to mellow out almost immediately upon arrival at his battalion. There were those who simply weren't impressed by him and those who impressed him with their low key quiet competitiveness.

Today, 9-10 years later, that 18 year old is unrecognizable, but his curiosity and competitive drive are fully intact. He started out in a tech heavy support MOS where he proved his worth and transitioned to a more "Marine like" MOS. Along the way, he has gotten the "what are you doing here" look, but the chip on his shoulder has gotten a little smaller as time has passed. The quote below was like a mantra which I repeated constantly to that 18 year old.

“In my walks, every man* I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”

― Ralph Waldo Emerson

Of course, coming from Dad it meant nothing, but its truth continues to reveal itself to him as it will to you.

Best of Luck!

*sorry @Capt MJ. But that is the quote.
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Thanks Sir! I know I said this same thing to the other responders but Thank You! I definitely needed to hear this. I suppose the reason I wrote this post was because my Dad's sincere advice just wasn't sinking in hahaha. Thanks alot! Your DS must be proud.
 
cb7893 said:
Wow! @trackandfield08 and @NavyHoops nailed it.

You didn't tell us if you are on an NROTC or NROTC-MO scholarship.

The only advice I would add is that at this stage of your life you know very little about yourself. You have lived in a cocoon of friends (of your choosing) and family (not of your choosing). Have your time management skills really been tested? Do you know what an Engineering curriculum even looks like? You will need to step up your game in every aspect of your maturation as a mid/student/person.

You come across as a clone of my DS as a 17-18 year old, before heading off the college with an AROTC scholarship to study Chemical Engineering. Academically off the charts. Classic Generalist. He was a varsity tennis player but very much a late bloomer. Competitive to the point of alienating people. Show off extraordinaire. He began to mellow out almost immediately upon arrival at his battalion. There were those who simply weren't impressed by him and those who impressed him with their low key quiet competitiveness.

Today, 9-10 years later, that 18 year old is unrecognizable, but his curiosity and competitive drive are fully intact. He started out in a tech heavy support MOS where he proved his worth and transitioned to a more "Marine like" MOS. Along the way, he has gotten the "what are you doing here" look, but the chip on his shoulder has gotten a little smaller as time has passed. The quote below was like a mantra which I repeated constantly to that 18 year old.

“In my walks, every man* I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”

― Ralph Waldo Emerson

Of course, coming from Dad it meant nothing, but its truth continues to reveal itself to him as it will to you.

Best of Luck!

*sorry @Capt MJ. But that is the quote.
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And I am a NROTC-MO scholarship recipient. Definitely a very exciting time for me, but I just have to be sure I don't become arrogant. Sorry if my Post seemed like that. Didn't mean to come off that way.
 
@Queens2020 - I am sure glad I was busy this morning - I am not sure I would have responded as well as the others have here. You would do well to read and reread these posts and internalize them before you show up to campus. Assuming a superior attitude is never a good approach in ANY group setting.

Regarding NROTC - No, it is nothing like life in the Marine Corps. You take one class per semester, you wear a uniform one day a week, you might do some extracurricular activities on occasion.
 
Capt MJ said:
^^^Standing O.
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NavyHoops said:
Well put by @trackandfield08. As a former Marine, I couldn't of said it better myself. Please read and re-read and then read their post again.

I served as a Marine Officer some years ago, but not that many years ago. I was a USNA grad. I spent 5 years in uniform and then spent 10 years working for the Marine Corps in civilian clothes side by side with Marines daily (and traveling to units frequently). I transitioned to another career field a few years ago.
  • It's true no one cares about your degree. Your Marines care what kind of officer you are. Having a 4.0 in engineering does not equate to being a good officer. Sure it means you are book smart, but does that mean you are situationally aware, can make decisions under pressure (like bullets flying, with a radio in hand, calling for fire, and directing your Marines level of pressure), lead with compassion yet still stern and a variety of other things. I had gone to a unit to do some testing with a Comm unit a few years ago. They had a brand new 2ndLt from MIT. He was great at the technology, but he was a total useless officer. In other services that have career fields dedicated to research, developmental engineering, etc. his skill set could be useful. The Marines want leaders first and foremost.
  • Education does come into play as you progress as a Marine. It can mean what you get selected to study for grad school and pay back tours. It could lead to a Masters in System Engineering at NPS with a pay back at Marine Corps System Command or another acquisition or testing command. The Marine Corps does have an Acquisition Secondary MOS now. Many officers who do their payback tour after a Masters will apply for this MOS during that payback tour. It would mean staying in that field afterwards. The majority of developing, building, testing and fielding equipment in the Marine Corps is done by civilians and contracting companies. But there are Marines who play a critical role in providing that "voice of the field", working with various units, approving designs, approving test events, etc.
  • This might not be a very accepted opinion, but this is my opinion alone... out of all the Services it is my opinion that the Marine Corps does not value or push education as much as the other services. The Marine Corps embraces their crayon eating culture. They are great at what they do. I wish we pushed education more for our younger Marines. The Marine Corps, as an officer, is first and foremost about being a leader. I pursued a Masters while in uniform and really no one cared. They have appropriate level PME and reading lists which are great and I highly pushed with my Marines. I also pushed my Marines to take advantage tuition assistance and take college courses, not enough do in my opinion.
  • You will be judged by your Marines on leadership. Your peers will judge you on a variety of things... your leadership, your willingness to help out your peers, PT (this actually plays a big role in how you are viewed by all), etc.
  • I have no idea if NROTC is like the Marine Corps as I was never in NROTC. Your summer at OCS will not be like NROTC. TBS is a weird place to be honest. We always joked and called it halfway house for officers. It's not free reign, but its not someone holding your hand either. When I went through USNA grads had no issue with TBS. Leatherneck prepared us well, we were used to the reindeer games and knew the area. I had two NROTC room mates who struggled (they were the exception and honestly I have no idea what they were doing in the USMC). Most ROTC grads did very well at TBS. The fleet can vary in how life is. Some days it's like a normal job. Other days you are in the field. Maybe you spend a month in 29 Palms or Sweden.
  • You better be fit. It doesn't mean you need to be a D1 athlete, it means you are in shape and can lead runs and hikes. Bodies break in the USMC under weight. Running in shorts and shoes is not that hard in the larger picture, but hiking 20 miles in heat with 100lbs is another story.
  • Thick skin - you better find it. Marines like to joke and are blunt. They will not mince words. Part of the ROTC process is learning how to develop that thick skin as you prepare for OCS. Bottom line, learn to listen, watch and learn. Take feedback and improve.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is high praise coming from each of you @Capt MJ and @NavyHoops. It has always been an honor to read each of your contributions to this forum, I have learned much from both of you.

@NavyHoops - This is slightly off topic, but I really liked getting your perspective on the Marine Corps' culture (or lack thereof) around education. Do you think this is a result of op tempo/deployment readiness requirements? Is the focus reserved for more senior members of the Marine Corps who are "out of their prime" as opposed to the younger members? While the USCG certainly praises and advocates education, especially as they've expanded CG-funded undergraduate & graduate programs for enlisted members, there are certain pockets (the more "traditional/operational" specialties) of the service that struggle to push its importance.


Queens2020 said:
Thanks for giving me the long, sincere answer Sir! Needed to hear that.
And I'm sorry for coming off as arrogant and demeaning. If I did, I'm sorry.
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You're very welcome, this forum is always about support. You never learn anything by not asking questions, and I would prefer you ask questions like this when you're in a position to retain your anonymity while you're new as opposed to facing some serious repercussions later on. I did not think you were intentionally trying to disparage anyone in the USMC, and I think it's a good start that you've recognized how your tone can be read if you're not careful.

Something else to mention, it is okay and perfectly normal to worry about "fitting in" and adjusting to a new culture, no matter what that culture is. I think where your question had some merit is in recognizing that we all want to fit in and be liked, no one wants to feel like they don't belong. Do not be afraid and do not stress. The benefit of going to a SA, joining a ROTC program, going to OCS/OTS, or enlisting is that you automatically have a common bond with the people around you - your desire to serve in your chosen service. You are not alone in your concerns, every incoming freshman around the country has the same worries. You will be okay, you will make friends, and you will find the camaraderie you're looking for - as long as you heed the advice given to you by the members here. You will not be liked or admired by everyone, but that is just a simple fact of life in whatever you do, so it's best you understand that now. We've all been where you are and, in my experience, those feelings happen every time you transfer to a new unit. We got through it, you can too.

P.S. Maybe just stick to a simple "thank you" without a sir or ma'am attached, that way you don't accidentally get it wrong. Don't worry, it's not my first time being mistaken as a sir...it's a hazard of choosing a male-dominated profession. ;)
 
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