NROTC more strict than AROTC?

HowBoutThemApples

HowBoutThemApples

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Nov 15, 2019
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167
First, I would like to say that I mean this with the absolute highest respect. I just want to share my personal experience and see if it is experienced by others. Every branch of the military requires a great amount of dedication that I have no yet experienced.

I am a 4/C midshipman, fresh out of NSO, and before that NSI. NSO wasn’t “bad” per se, but it was pretty demanding. We were doing PT and drill for about 15 hours a day for the weekend. It was a good time! I’m excited for the year.

I have a few friends in AROTC, and they didn’t have any summer training, and their orientation was a 1-hour March around campus. They were offered drinks by upperclassmen that night and treated pretty much like any other guy. I was also told that they have no mandatory summer training until their 1/C year. It seems that AROTC, at least at this unit, is a lot less demanding than my NROTC unit. Is that for any reason? Or just a specific experience, or maybe a misunderstanding.

It perplexes me because the Army produced just as quality officers as the Navy does, and it seems that there is less standardized training in AROTC as compared to NROTC.

If anyone would like to share their experience I’d love to hear. Again, I mean no disrespect. Every single army offficer has earned so much more than me, I am just curious what the differences between the two programs are.
 
Each unit is different. Also, Navy Option MIDN will roll straight to the fleet upon commissioning so summer training is more important, since new Army officers attend schools prior to reporting to their first duty station.

It's really just a difference in how they run their programs.
 
@HowBoutThemApples you are drawing conclusions here with a very limited data set. AROTC is very demanding, at times physically more grueling than NROTC. The summer camp for Army is no picnic , nor is serving in that branch. Respect each fellow branch, be a good ambassador for Navy, and avoid hasty generalizations.

NSI and NSO can be challenging but each branch has their processes. Honestly Have seen workouts for both and Navy, which my son is training in like you. Navy should stay humble here. Anyone thinking they are superior or have it tougher after 20 days of experience would look foolish. They all have their moments and hats off to anyone willing to serve.
 
I didn't find anything really wrong with the OP's observations. I just viewed it as a personal position, and related questions about that position....based upon minimal experience. As the years pass, I'm sure the OP will figure out that each branch has a tried/true formula they use to produce exceptional officers.

That said.....

USAF has, without question, the toughest physical requirements.

Can you imagine the strength necessary to install 65" LED TVs, without help?

Any clue how difficult it can be, to build up the thumb muscles necessary to play Call of Duty for 6 hours at a time (on-shift)?

The grueling dedication necessary to bolster your gastrointestinal fortitude, to allow for daily consumption of lobster tails and sirloin?

I dare say the majority of you cannot appreciate the complexity and difficulty of such endeavors.

SOG <--------(marinating sirloin, today)
 
Nothing wrong with an observation, but a lot is formed from your very limited experience. I'd ask, what percentage of the Army cadets are prior enlisted/SMP in the guard or reserve? It's usually much higher than the other branches. No point making them drill and march for recognition if they've already been there/done that and become soldiers already when their upperclassmen haven't. Keep in mind, when I was going through AFROTC even we looked down on the NROTC mids because, with the exception of a few days prior to freshman year, they had no "boot camp" type course. The Marine options, while they got the living daylights hazed out of them, still had several get dropped for drug use. Those that survived the program all turned out to be fully capable officers in the end, however. Also, while that was my experience with NROTC, I know for a fact other schools and even years at the same program are different and I know not to let that form my opinion of the program.

You'll see the same thing on active duty as well. There's friendly rivalry between communities and ships about who has it hard and who doesn't, but with the exception of a command climate that's an absolute dumpster fire, every ship and community performs to a high level.
 
In AFROTC there is no summer training except for field training that occurs in the summer between the end of sophomore and the start of Junior year. However, this training is by invitation only and if you don't get invited and pass, you don't continue. It used to be something like 28 days at one point, but it was 23 days when my son went. Now it's something like two weeks. As for PT, I don't think they did any during the weekend. My son did join Arnold Air which is a fraternal organization connected to AFrotc. It's almost a Greek fraternity, at least at his school. They did do nighttime and weekend training but it was less for practical military purposes and more for the price to get in.
 
SOG-SA said:
I didn't find anything really wrong with the OP's observations. I just viewed it as a personal position, and related questions about that position....based upon minimal experience. As the years pass, I'm sure the OP will figure out that each branch has a tried/true formula they use to produce exceptional officers.

That said.....

USAF has, without question, the toughest physical requirements.

Can you imagine the strength necessary to install 65" LED TVs, without help?

Any clue how difficult it can be, to build up the thumb muscles necessary to play Call of Duty for 6 hours at a time (on-shift)?

The grueling dedication necessary to bolster your gastrointestinal fortitude, to allow for daily consumption of lobster tails and sirloin?

I dare say the majority of you cannot appreciate the complexity and difficulty of such endeavors.

SOG <--------(marinating sirloin, today)
Click to expand...
Post of the year.🏆

AROTC Cadets and Cadettes alike, are without question, the best looking. Don't know how @kinnem's DS ended up NROTC-MO.
 
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HowBoutThemApples said:
First, I would like to say that I mean this with the absolute highest respect. I just want to share my personal experience and see if it is experienced by others. Every branch of the military requires a great amount of dedication that I have no yet experienced.

I am a 4/C midshipman, fresh out of NSO, and before that NSI. NSO wasn’t “bad” per se, but it was pretty demanding. We were doing PT and drill for about 15 hours a day for the weekend. It was a good time! I’m excited for the year.

I have a few friends in AROTC, and they didn’t have any summer training, and their orientation was a 1-hour March around campus. They were offered drinks by upperclassmen that night and treated pretty much like any other guy. I was also told that they have no mandatory summer training until their 1/C year. It seems that AROTC, at least at this unit, is a lot less demanding than my NROTC unit. Is that for any reason? Or just a specific experience, or maybe a misunderstanding.

It perplexes me because the Army produced just as quality officers as the Navy does, and it seems that there is less standardized training in AROTC as compared to NROTC.

If anyone would like to share their experience I’d love to hear. Again, I mean no disrespect. Every single army offficer has earned so much more than me, I am just curious what the differences between the two programs are.
Click to expand...
My DD is a just starting AF ROTC as a freshman. She moved into campus almost a week early because of AF ROTC orientation midweek. She called me the 2nd day she was there, freaking out because she could seee the the AROTC folks were out there early morning already and getting yelled at and working out. So I would think it's a matter of detachmant/university rather than the service per se.
 
jaglvr said:
My DD is a just starting AF ROTC as a freshman. She moved into campus almost a week early because of AF ROTC orientation midweek. She called me the 2nd day she was there, freaking out because she could seee the the AROTC folks were out there early morning already and getting yelled at and working out. So I would think it's a matter of detachmant/university rather than the service per se.
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Tell your daughter regarding the yelling, it's a game. Dont take it seriously and don't be affected by it. I don't mean to say that she shouldn't do what they say when they yell, but realize it just part of the course.
 
I have no personal Navy experience, but I have experience living amongst NROTC mids when I was an AROTC cadet, albeit many moons ago. Here are my impressions, which haven't changed in 35 years:

1) NROTC is academically more difficult for one reason -- the requirement to take a year of calculus and a year of calculus-based physics. AROTC doesn't have such a requirement. In addition, NROTC skews their scholarships toward technical degrees, which are often more academically demanding than liberal arts and business degrees, whereas AROTC does not.

2) AROTC is physically more demanding, which the Navy PFA illustrates. For example, the NPFA includes a 1.5-mile run while the APFT included a 2-mile run. (Note that the Army PT standards are undergoing a metamorphosis to a completely different test.)

3) NROTC, as you correctly note, requires more of a time commitment during the summer. My understanding of that, though (and this could be off), is that you spend your time with operational units. That is less stressful than the required summer camp AROTC has, which I would describe more along the lines of a truncated, evaluated boot camp atmosphere. It was all cadets living with and being evaluated 24/7 by ROTC cadre members (from other schools). AROTC also has optional summer training with operational units, called CTLT, which is considered nice experience but as far as I'm aware has never been considered particularly demanding, at least in most instances.

4) AROTC involves a fair amount of "muddy boots" training. I'm not aware that NROTC requires that.

YMMV on any or all of this, but these are my dated, 25k foot impressions.
 
Humey said:
Tell your daughter regarding the yelling, it's a game. Dont take it seriously and don't be affected by it. I don't mean to say that she shouldn't do what they say when they yell, but realize it just part of the course.
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Oh she knows, thanks! She was in CAP and her biggest issue is not laughing trying to maintain bearing. They were doing an elimination drill and she was right there at the top until the one cadre started making faces at her. She can't help it and knows she has to control it. But I guess that's the cheerleader in her always trying to come out!
 
The only required summer training for AROTC is Advanced Camp after junior year. As mentioned it can be very stressful as you are evaluated 24/7 for 4weeks. Your performance at Advanced Camp has input on whether you assess onto Active Duty or Reserve and can affect what branch you receive. There is a number of optional summer training events you can compete for (Airborne, Air Assault, CTLT, DCLT, internships, Project GO, and sometimes other Army schools). Strictness varies by school/program as it is a function of the cadre members there, but generally speaking, AROTC and NROTC-MO tend to be the more physically demanding, while NROTC and AROTC tends to be more academically demanding as they tend to have the harder majors among their cadets. We don't spend a lot of time doing D&C in AROTC. Most of our training time is spent on Infantry Tactics and its supporting tasks. As mentioned before, you will get very muddy and tired.
 
jaglvr said:
Oh she knows, thanks! She was in CAP and her biggest issue is not laughing trying to maintain bearing. They were doing an elimination drill and she was right there at the top until the one cadre started making faces at her. She can't help it and knows she has to control it. But I guess that's the cheerleader in her always trying to come out!
Click to expand...
that the other side of it. Smiling or making a face because that will piss someone off. Although it sometimes affects those yelling at you. Someone was yelling at my son and they were asking him questions. I don't remember the questions but my son's response was something like he liked him a lot. It came out wrong but was appropriate to the question. The guy asking the question started cracking up and laughing and that was the end of the yelling. My son was later told all of the senior cadets who were there started laughing like crazy after the whole thing was done.
 
SOG-SA said:
SAF has, without question, the toughest physical requirements.

Can you imagine the strength necessary to install 65" LED TVs, without help?

Any clue how difficult it can be, to build up the thumb muscles necessary to play Call of Duty for 6 hours at a time (on-shift)?

The grueling dedication necessary to bolster your gastrointestinal fortitude, to allow for daily consumption of lobster tails and sirloin?

I dare say the majority of you cannot appreciate the complexity and difficulty of such endeavors.
Click to expand...

Sirloin? Surely you jest. Lobster is only paired with filet mignon at the AF dining facilities.

Stealth_81
 
HowBoutThemApples said:
First, I would like to say that I mean this with the absolute highest respect. I just want to share my personal experience and see if it is experienced by others. Every branch of the military requires a great amount of dedication that I have no yet experienced.

I am a 4/C midshipman, fresh out of NSO, and before that NSI. NSO wasn’t “bad” per se, but it was pretty demanding. We were doing PT and drill for about 15 hours a day for the weekend. It was a good time! I’m excited for the year.

I have a few friends in AROTC, and they didn’t have any summer training, and their orientation was a 1-hour March around campus. They were offered drinks by upperclassmen that night and treated pretty much like any other guy. I was also told that they have no mandatory summer training until their 1/C year. It seems that AROTC, at least at this unit, is a lot less demanding than my NROTC unit. Is that for any reason? Or just a specific experience, or maybe a misunderstanding.

It perplexes me because the Army produced just as quality officers as the Navy does, and it seems that there is less standardized training in AROTC as compared to NROTC.

If anyone would like to share their experience I’d love to hear. Again, I mean no disrespect. Every single army officer has earned so much more than me, I am just curious what the differences between the two programs are.
Click to expand...
The commissioning programs are different. The Army does not have mandatory summer training every summer. However, Army officers will report directly to their BOLC (Basic Officer Leadership Course) before they report to their unit.
 
franknd said:
3) NROTC, as you correctly note, requires more of a time commitment during the summer. My understanding of that, though (and this could be off), is that you spend your time with operational units. That is less stressful than the required summer camp AROTC has, which I would describe more along the lines of a truncated, evaluated boot camp atmosphere. It was all cadets living with and being evaluated 24/7 by ROTC cadre members (from other schools). AROTC also has optional summer training with operational units, called CTLT, which is considered nice experience but as far as I'm aware has never been considered particularly demanding, at least in most instances.
Click to expand...
Hey, "less stressful"????? My time on a paid vacation in San Diego, where I got off at 1500 everyday and had the weekends entirely free was incredibly stressful. Do you know how hard it is to decide where to go to dinner each night, especially when you're getting paid enough to go anywhere you want with nearly no other expenses? I was falling apart at the seams!
 
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