NROTC Performance Review Board

Should a midshipman retain counsel for a PRB?

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NROTC Dad

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Calling all with knowledge of NROTC Performance Review Boards.

My son is a Junior and has been accused of plagiarism on a NROTC class paper. The command has opted for a PRB for a Major Violation. I've read as much as I can from NSTC 1533.2A and I feel that I understand the process.

The biggest question I have right now is whether it is a "good idea" for my so to retain counsel for the board. I realize that the reg's allow such but I didn't know if the Command and/or the PRB members will hold the fact that he brought counsel against him. He's been told that the most probable outcome is disenrollment but he should go to the board and "hope for the best".

Any help or advise is appreciated, ESPECIALLY FROM ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.

Thanks in advance.
 
Having sat on many a PRB, including a couple for honor code violations, I wouldn't recommend retaining counsel. First, I've never seen/heard of any midshipmen doing so in any PRB; it's a tool to get to the root of a problem and make a recommendation to the CO, it's NOT a judicial proceeding. While the ROD allows counsel, they'd have little to no actual involvement inside the PRB itself. As a potential member of a PRB, the only person I'm interested in hearing from is the midshipmen, not a talking suit.

From my own personal perspective, I believe that the absolute BEST thing a midshipman can do in a PRB is be 100% open and straightforward; there's no substitute for honesty, especially after being accused of an honor code violation. If he were my student, I'd recommend he go in there, accept responsibility for his actions (if he in fact did commit plagiarism), and do everything in his power to convey to the board members that this was a one time lapse in judgement and that the most important thing to him outside of oxygen is to earn a commission as a naval officer. The way he conveys himself during this process will make a difference.

That all being said, if they find he did in fact commit plagiarism, disenrollment is a very realistic possibility; it falls under "major offense" in the ROD. In the boards I sat on involving honor code violations, I've seen both disenrollment and LOA as outcomes. It all depends on the exact nature of the situation.

Good luck.
 
I am glad NavyNOLA responded and you should listen to his advice.
But, somehow you DS needs to prepare for the PRB since the stakes are so high. What is he going to say, how is he going to say it? Is there any dispute that it was plagiarism? Legal counsel may be the mechanism for the preparation.
 
NavyNOLA is an oracle on all things NROTC.
His advice on this board has always been thoughtful and spot on. I believe in most situations, he is correct again. Yet there are some units that are less professional. I have seen witch hunts driven by personalities.
At these units, not all Midshipman are created equal. I've watched a MIDN caught cheating (crib sheet) on a Naval Science exam by the officer instructor, get a slap on the wrist from a PRB. The same unit disenroll a MIDN over the accusation of cheating.
I'm sure NavyNOLA would agree that PRB's are not just about the incident, but are a judgement of the entire past performance of the MIDN.
This NJP could result in a huge debt for your son or him being sent enlisted. Get legal advice.
There are other steps you can take should he be recommended for disenrollment, but that's cart in front of the horse.
 
Oldsalt said:
I'm sure NavyNOLA would agree that PRB's are not just about the incident, but are a judgement of the entire past performance of the MIDN.
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This is entirely correct. While a given incident triggers a PRB, we look at the entire record of the midshipman, just as the ROD directs. A student's past performance could certainly affect the outcome.
 
Is there a way you can IM me? If so, I can then give you my phone number and experience with my child in this situation. It seems to be very hit or miss on what the PNS is going to do from school to school and even within a school. I know of one school that had 4 scholarship Junior's cheat on a Naval Sciences exam less than a month ago and nothing was done to them. No PRB or otherwise. Alternatively, if you can post your email, I will send you an email with my contact information.
 
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7422 said:
Is there a way you can IM me? If so, I can then give you my phone number and experience with my child in this situation. It seems to be very hit or miss on what the PNS is going to do from school to school and even within a school. I know of one school that had 4 scholarship Junior's cheat on a Naval Sciences exam less than a month ago and nothing was done to them. No PRB or otherwise. Alternatively, if you can post your email, I will send you an email with my contact information.
Click to expand...

My email is NROTCDad@gmail.com

Thanks in advance.
 
Oldsalt said:
NavyNOLA is an oracle on all things NROTC.
His advice on this board has always been thoughtful and spot on. I believe in most situations, he is correct again. Yet there are some units that are less professional. I have seen witch hunts driven by personalities.
At these units, not all Midshipman are created equal. I've watched a MIDN caught cheating (crib sheet) on a Naval Science exam by the officer instructor, get a slap on the wrist from a PRB. The same unit disenroll a MIDN over the accusation of cheating.
I'm sure NavyNOLA would agree that PRB's are not just about the incident, but are a judgement of the entire past performance of the MIDN.
This NJP could result in a huge debt for your son or him being sent enlisted. Get legal advice.
There are other steps you can take should he be recommended for disenrollment, but that's cart in front of the horse.
Click to expand...

Although I don't feel this is a witch hunt, I am nervous about all of the punishment possibilities. He is Marine Option so I was told that mandatory enlistment isn't an issue, just an option in lieu of repayment.

He has a great record ( as far as I am aware) and hope that the PRB takes his past and currently performance into consideration as a whole picture approach.
 
7422 said:
Is there a way you can IM me? If so, I can then give you my phone number and experience with my child in this situation. It seems to be very hit or miss on what the PNS is going to do from school to school and even within a school. I know of one school that had 4 scholarship Junior's cheat on a Naval Sciences exam less than a month ago and nothing was done to them. No PRB or otherwise. Alternatively, if you can post your email, I will send you an email with my contact information.
Click to expand...

7422,

Sorry I haven't contacted you but a quick question for you and anyone listening. Do you think it's a good or bad idea for his parents to "witness" the board. The standards allow it but I don't want to complicate things if it's a problem with the Board Members.

Thanks.
 
NROTC Dad said:
7422,

Sorry I haven't contacted you but a quick question for you and anyone listening. Do you think it's a good or bad idea for his parents to "witness" the board. The standards allow it but I don't want to complicate things if it's a problem with the Board Members.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

GOD. NO.
 
Think about the message that sends to the board members. A parent doesn't have enough confidence in their son or daughter for them to go through a disciplinary process on their own as an adult? I understand you're concerned about the possible outcomes. However, your son needs to stand and speak for himself. Provide guidance before the PRB as desired, but sitting in the PRB to observe doesn't accomplish anything positive, and clearly demonstrates to the unit that your son needs to have his hand held. It's an officer development program. Those two things don't jive.
 
NavyNOLA said:
Having sat on many a PRB, including a couple for honor code violations, I wouldn't recommend retaining counsel. First, I've never seen/heard of any midshipmen doing so in any PRB; it's a tool to get to the root of a problem and make a recommendation to the CO, it's NOT a judicial proceeding. While the ROD allows counsel, they'd have little to no actual involvement inside the PRB itself. As a potential member of a PRB, the only person I'm interested in hearing from is the midshipmen, not a talking suit.

From my own personal perspective, I believe that the absolute BEST thing a midshipman can do in a PRB is be 100% open and straightforward; there's no substitute for honesty, especially after being accused of an honor code violation. If he were my student, I'd recommend he go in there, accept responsibility for his actions (if he in fact did commit plagiarism), and do everything in his power to convey to the board members that this was a one time lapse in judgement and that the most important thing to him outside of oxygen is to earn a commission as a naval officer. The way he conveys himself during this process will make a difference.

That all being said, if they find he did in fact commit plagiarism, disenrollment is a very realistic possibility; it falls under "major offense" in the ROD. In the boards I sat on involving honor code violations, I've seen both disenrollment and LOA as outcomes. It all depends on the exact nature of the situation.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

New to posting on a forum, so I hope I'm doing this right - this message is to NavyNOLA: I see you mentioned that you've sat on PRBs, so I'm hoping you'll know the answer to this: if you have been disenrolled from the ROTC program while still in school, is that equivalent to a dishonorable discharge and is that something that would show up on a background check that a prospective employer may run/follow you through life? Thank you for your help.
 
Only if it's a disciplinary disenrollment. If so, it can have an impact on future military/civil employment, and it can also affect security clearances. See below:

Ref: (a) NSTC M-1533.2A

1. Pursuant to reference (a): Disciplinary disenrollments become a matter of permanent federal record and may prejudice the individual for future military or civil employment. Disciplinary disenrollments may be disqualifying for future federal security clearances that are often necessary for positions in private industry. Disciplinary disenrollments may be prejudicial to an individual’s interests should he/she ever apply for a commission in the Armed Forces.
 
NavyNOLA said:
Only if it's a disciplinary disenrollment. If so, it can have an impact on future military/civil employment, and it can also affect security clearances. See below:

Ref: (a) NSTC M-1533.2A

1. Pursuant to reference (a): Disciplinary disenrollments become a matter of permanent federal record and may prejudice the individual for future military or civil employment. Disciplinary disenrollments may be disqualifying for future federal security clearances that are often necessary for positions in private industry. Disciplinary disenrollments may be prejudicial to an individual’s interests should he/she ever apply for a commission in the Armed Forces.
Click to expand...
 
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