Discussion in 'ROTC' started by 040726, Feb 6, 2013.
When do NROTC midshipmen find out if they are selected for flight training?
Just a curiosity question, are NROTC mids like AFROTC cadets where they have 2 boards...rated and non-rated; rated is spring jr yr, non-rated fall sr yr? Or are they like AROTC and it sr. yr. for everyone?
Pima - I think i can answer your question -
basics are that navy or marine 4yr scholarship MIDN - have a summer active duty period each of the 3 summers during their 4 yrs - the first summer, after their freshman yr - all attend the same - the remaining 2 summers are very different - Marine track vs Navy track.
but to the poster
all I know is that the NROTC 1st class seem to learn their "service selection" ( which community - surface, subs, aviation, etc) much like USNA.
Typically it is late fall of the senior (1st class) yr.
The experienced I watched was the MIDN usually voices their goal sometimes they are unsure, but it is a topic discussed I assume with their Navy advisor. At least at my son's unit, they have an advisor each year. For those interested in aviation there are apitutide tests, physical requirements( fit in seat, swimming test, etc). I dont remember when, but the MIDN do fill out their service selection preferance sheet - list their choices arranged 1 thru 6 as I recall, then 2ndclass yr (junior yr) spring semester they learn their 1st class summer cruise assignment - this is a mandatory active duty cruise -this includes those that came with 4 yr scholarships as well as those contracted along the way - just before their senior year.
at VMI the MIDN were told all along that they would get that active duty assignment in their 1st choice community.
The short answer thus is the NROTC MIDN received their "service selections" this past October - middle of month. They are all expecting their official orders sometime this spring.
I hope this helps, hopefully someone will add to my generalizations based on what a parent learns from their MIDN - so I might be missing some parts. larrys mom
That sounds about right to me. I would add to this that I think Marine Aviators don't find out until sometime during TBS as all Marine officers go there and the rest don't find out their assignments until then.
2012 Service Selection Numbers
For FY13, NROTC national service selection notifications occurred on October 16. DS got his #1 choice, 1390 (Student Naval Aviator-Pilot). By far the most slots go to aviation (pilot and NFO), more than ships (SWO) or subs. You submit your dream sheet for what you want before the end of your Junior year. Changes/additional info are accepted till around the 4th of July. While you don't have to have your pre-commissioning flight physical complete before service selection, you do have to have taken and passed the ASTB (min score of 4/5) to eligible for aviation. DS said everyone he knows that wanted aviation, got it. For the service goal numbers, google NSTCNOTE 1500, 1 Oct 12. These numbers account for 1/3 of the total Ensigns each year. USNA is the other third and OCS is the remaining third. For example, NROTC goal was 321 aviators (pilot and NFO). Adding USNA and OCS would take the total number of Ensigns reporting to flight school next year to around 963. Not sure how that number compares to USAF.
So in essence, it is like the Army, not the AF, everyone finds out at the exact same time.
I was only curious because I had thought NROTC already had their board this past fall, and right now AFROTC's rated board are meeting.
I am too lazy to search for the aviation numbers, but I would assume it is much higher than that for AF. Basically 550+/- will come from the AFA, the rule of thumb for them is if you want to fly and meet the stds., you will fly. AFROTC probably gives out another 500 slots, and then there are 2 rated OCS boards every yr, so if only 250 (125 ea), you are looking at 1200+.
The big thing that I see differently is once selected for pilot your rising sr yr you will be sent for a 3 day flight physical at Wright Pat (maybe not happen this yr for sequestration reasons), so for them the path might end that summer. One of our DS's friends got off the alternate list because somebody DQ'd there.
The other thing is they will do water survival after airframe selection at UPT, basically it is for ejection seat airplanes.
They both have the same with the sitting height. 2 of his friends got tripped up here, both were girls. One was DQ'd and one was allowed to stay, but told she had to go non-ejection seat only.
Our final difference is for AF we have 4 types of rated, Pilot, CSO (RIO), RPA and ABM. When they get their slot they know exactly which type they will be going.
Pima - that is another difference - as I understand it, our navy guys only know they got pilot or NFO - regardless they all go to pensacola and do the exact same first training - from there the NFO's stay on at pensacola for their completion and the pilots- after first stuff get their designation -rotary, fixed wing and a third one - forget what its called. While I thought all flight training was all at pensacola, since october I have gleaned that depending upon the type (within the 3 catagories) that will determine where they go - I heard something about at least 1 other location - so I dont know - will be learning along the way for sure.- larrys mom
ps just as aside - today got call from my son, to say that Abbott came to VMI to measure and take the orders for the senior MIDN's navy uniforms. That was nice - I had assumed the 1st class would have to try to do that during FX this spring while at Norfolk - so this was great! For the MIDN - another item checked off the to do list as they march toward commissioning and graduation in May.
That is also different.
AF UPT, UNT, RPA, ABM all go to different bases. They also stay at the same base their entire training until they wing. Only exception might be helo's I don't know there because helo's are rare in the AF world.
For example, our DS is at Laughlin, if he gets tracked heavies or fighters he will stay in Del Rio for a yr. When he wings, than he will go to FTU for the airframe he will be operational in for the immediate future. There are multiple UPT bases across the country. Vance, Sheppard, Columbus and Laughlin are UPT bases.
Whiting use to exist for pilots, but the AF has stopped that option, because it was taking longer for UPT students to wing compared to the traditional AF only UPT bases.
ALL RPAs go to San Antonio, and CSOs go to Pensacola. I don't know where the ABM school is located, but they would go there, as you can see they are not near the UPT bases. They all live in their career field bubble from day one.
As a parent who just watched her DS commission, it becomes expensive. I don't know if he/you have purchased the mess dress yet, but if it hasn't been purchased you might want to think about it. It is @400 before alterations. We gave that as a Xmas gift when he was a jr. In the AF they where them for assignment night, and the annual military ball. By the time he commissioned he probably wore it at least a 1/2 of a dozen times. 3 for AFROTC formals, and 3 times to attend AFROTC grads weddings.
For his commissioning we purchased all of his insignia/rank, etc for him, plus a second set of blues, plus another flight cap. I think it probably ran us @300 or so. The flight suit in AFROTC is given to the cadets when they are selected for rated, and you cannot buy it.
Not to divert this thread more, but one thing ROTC cadets will have the opportunity to take is the career starter loan. I would suggest you search the forum to see some ideas on what to do, especially if you know he will PCS 2x within a yr.
Question for the well informed
DS is currently a MIDM 2/C and a Senior at one of the toughest Ivy Schools; 4 yr scholarship awarded in second semester of freshman year as he joined as a College Programmer (applied to USNA , Summer Seminar, Candidate Week End. etc. very competitive but as a foreign born and raised student could only apply for VP nomination, and ,ouch!, did not get it. He also did not get NROTC scholarship at first try). Only college he was not accepted was MIT. Current Unit is great but very small, he is majoring in M. Engineering with very high GPA ( Straight Dean's List since first semester), good current billet etc..
The question is the following: he is absolutely certain of his first choice as future Naval Aviator and he has already passed ASTB with good marks but is going for a second try aiming at 99%. Given his very high GPA he is very concerned that he might be selected for Nuclear School, he would not mind it at all ( indeed it would his second choice and had a very positive experience during Summer Cruise) but his heart is truly set on eventually going to Test Pilot School.
Currently he is the only Mid who will put in for Naval Aviation. Anyone has any idea of hat his chances may be in 2016?
That is an odd statement to me. There is then no NUC draft at VMI? Every NROTC - Marine Option MID who wants go to Marine Ground or Marine Air gets ground or air? That certainly is not the case at the Academy, where probably 30% of mids don't get their first choice. At the Academy, it is more often referred to as "Service Assignment".
One interesting note that separates NROTC from AROTC or AFROTC: the NROTC Mids are assigned into the communities in exactly the same proportion as those Mids receiving their commission from the Academy... that is... if 31% of Academy Mids are assigned into Aviation, then 31% of NROTC Mids are likewise assigned. There is no preferential treatment for Academy Mids vs. NROTC Mids when it comes to Service Assignment.
The fact that he will be the only Mid putting in for Naval Aviation matters at all?
For NROTC he is competing nationally, doesn't really matter what his det has put down. It sounds as if your DS is doing well academically and militarily. Has he taken his pre-commissioning physical and been qualified for pilot? I think he has a great shot for pilot. It's no secret that the they are selecting Mids for Nuke when it might not be their first pick. I think all he can do is put his choices down and go from there. Hope for the best and be prepared for service selection to be anything!
Thanks for the info. No, he had eye surgery under Navy supervision (he was slightly near sighted) and it went extremely well and his DODMERB was totally uneventful so we are hopeful on the medical side. We will keep our fingers crossed, he will be happy in Subs, he knows the needs of the Navy come first, but really wants to be an aviator and later shoot for a NASA career..
Good luck to him. I am sure his ROTC Instructor will guide him through the process. I know at USNA this year they not only had a few who were Nuke drafted, but also some were NFO drafted too. Sounds like he is in good shape to get pilot. I actually have one friend of mine who followed the route your DS is hoping to do, except they are a she and a Marine pilot. The thing that got them there was amazing grades and amazing evals. This got them sent to a top Graduate School Engineering program, then TPS then NASA. TPS is much different then it was in the cold war era. With his academic background and if he is a good pilot, TPS isn't extremely hard to get. In fact the large majority of my friends did not want to go to TPS. Obviously we all know NASA has changed dramatically in the past decade and who knows what its future holds!
Another concern, in the bubbleheads.blogspot I read that anyone who puts Submarines as second choice is basically automatically "drafted" in the Service, is this true? My DS had decided to put Subs as his second choice, would this almost automatically push him out of this first "real" choice, aviation ? It really would be to say in the least ironic that in being honest he would automatically deny himself his wish....
I think that is a totally unknown and no one knows if that is really true. In many of these scenarios that you are hearing about, there are probably plenty of people who put Subs as their #2 behind pilot and still got pilot. You are looking at a sub website so mostly sub folks are going to post there. He needs to have this conversation with his officer instructor and do what he feels is right. Some will try to "game" the system by putting subs way down the list, others will put the list exactly how they want it to be. So much of this is out of his control and all he can do is hope for the best and be prepared for service selection to say anything. Needs of the service always wins. Even if he gets pilot, he will again be submitting another list for jets, helos, fixed wing and the needs of the Navy will drive that selection also. Maybe he is dead set on jets and finishes first in his class, but his aviation class has zero jet spots. Its a hard lesson, but this isn't unique to the Navy. The USAFA drafted folks to Missiles this year. In the past USNA has drafted folks to the Marine Corps (its been a long time since that happened). Marines do a quality spread for MOS selection, so many end up with MOSs that weren't at the top of their list (I think I got my 10th pick). As you can see this isn't unique to any service. It sounds like he completely understands needs of the service and is well prepared for his future to be anything!
I don't know how the Navy does their rated medical exams, but for the AF it is not just DoDMERB that they have to clear. It is the FAA FC1 physical. AFROTC sends their elected rated cadets to Wright Pat AFB for a 3 day TDY. It is 2 days of poking, prodding and examining everything. They are given EKGs, vision, hearing, dental, etc. The last appointment is with a flight surgeon. It is both a DoDMERB and FAA exam.
Not trying to scare you, but if it is like AFROTC, DoDMERB is DoDMERB, he is cleared to serve. FAA FC1 is different. I would not worry at all since many, many cadets/mids have had the surgery and no problems. Just saying he may have to go through a much more stringent exam than you can imagine.
~ My DS was sent with 100 other AFROTC cadets. 25% of them, including him failed the EKG. The next day they were sent for an EEG. DS was AFROTC scholarship and had his DoDMERB as a sr. in HS, no waivers needed. Homewith4's DS went a year later and failed on eyesight. He lost his pilot slot and went Intel if I recall correctly. He was DoDMERB qualified, but not FAA. I believe it was color deficiency. Won't swear!
Now that I have unfortunately probably scared you, you may want to see if the doc was also FAA qualified. Good luck. GO Navy beat Army!
Thanks NavyHoops.. DS is straight as an arrow and will do what is right. When he came back from Summer Seminar a few moons ago, he announced that he was willing to serve wherever the Navy wanted him to go. He actually was considering EOD..in the end he'll be fine
Thanks Pima for the comment, it helps . DS actually went for his DoDMERB at Ederle Base in northern Italy . They were not really familiar with USNA requirements so they told my DS they were giving him the "full treatment" EKG,vision etc.. he was also a regional league water polo player ( they have to get regular EKGs) and he has held a billet for two years as assistant PT instructor ( I guess nobody else wants that job ! and he loves physical exercise)
. As you say no guarantees ....but we still hope
We are given flight physicals at USNA as part of our pre-commissioning physicals during Junior Year. I am not sure how ROTC does it. I am guessing something similar. We know if we are not eligible for pilot prior to service selection.
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