NROTC SCHOLARSHIP VS VACCINE

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808Makua

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My son was awarded a NROTC scholarship through the Marine Corps. He did not attend NSI due to a religious exemption we requested. We were told to wait 3-6 months for a decision. Long story short, we just arrived at the school he picked and are awaiting a decision if he can participate as a College Programmer. However the cost of this college will put us in debt and are contemplating pulling him out and heading home. The staff here has never dealt with a situation like this and they are “looking into it”.

Per Great Lakes, if his RE is approved and he successfully completes 2023 NSI he will be reimbursed. However if it’s denied then the scholarship is lost and we are stuck with the bill.

With the CDC recent revisions of all its Covid mandates, service members winning their court cases and more information regarding the C-19 vaccine efficacy we are praying that the military will drop it’s mandate.

Is there anyone else out there in the same situation as us, where their child won a Navy ROTC scholarship and did not attend NSI due to a RE?
 
Idk the answer, but scholarships don’t come through all the time, or are lost. Think academics. Or not passing DODMERB. Or getting injured.

It’s always advised to attend a school that one can ‘afford’. Bc every year, there are examples where the student is having to decide between staying and incurring debt, or transferring, when plan A doesn’t work out.

I would put your example in with all the others that happen yearly.
 
808Makua said:
My son was awarded a NROTC scholarship through the Marine Corps. He did not attend NSI due to a religious exemption we requested. We were told to wait 3-6 months for a decision. Long story short, we just arrived at the school he picked and are awaiting a decision if he can participate as a College Programmer. However the cost of this college will put us in debt and are contemplating pulling him out and heading home. The staff here has never dealt with a situation like this and they are “looking into it”.

Per Great Lakes, if his RE is approved and he successfully completes 2023 NSI he will be reimbursed. However if it’s denied then the scholarship is lost and we are stuck with the bill.

With the CDC recent revisions of all its Covid mandates, service members winning their court cases and more information regarding the C-19 vaccine efficacy we are praying that the military will drop it’s mandate.

Is there anyone else out there in the same situation as us, where their child won a Navy ROTC scholarship and did not attend NSI due to a RE?
Click to expand...
I’ll add this, you probably won’t get a response to the “is there anyone else out there” request. Bc it doesn’t happen often. You can use the search tool on here, and read other discussion threads about exemptions from the vaccine, including input from people who deal with this. It’s also a very individualized issue. So I doubt you will get actual first hand experience here.

Respectfully, you son should be driving this decision. Maybe he would prefer to take out loans and chance the outcome at the school he is at? These are big adult decisions, with big consequences. Nothing happens quickly in the military. He (or you) may be praying and holding your breath for a long time.
 
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One possible option to consider would be shifting to the Novavax vaccine which follows the traditional development path and does not use mRNA or stem cells. The Navy recently approved Novavax to meet the vaccine requirements and I believe the Marine Corps has also done this.

That would save the time of waiting for the answer to the RE request.

Edited to add the article link from US Naval Institute on this.
news.usni.org

Navy Ready to Distribute Novavax COVID-19 Vaccine - USNI News

The Navy will now have doses of the Novavax vaccine available for sailors. Novavax is the latest company to receive emergency use authorization from the FDA for its vaccine to prevent COVID-19 now an option for active duty troops, who have not yet gotten vaccinated. Unlike the vaccines produced...
news.usni.org news.usni.org
 
Everyone has the freedom to practice whatever religion they wish, but the reality is there are very few who actually object to vaccinations. What tends to happen in this politicized environment is the "exemption" is exploited by people who simply don't trust things.

If one can prove that their religious beliefs actually prohibit vaccines, then it will probably still be an uphill battle. If the "exemption" is used for the COVID-19 vaccine, and nothing else, expect a big fat, "Nope!" to the request.

In general, the following are some of the very rare cases where vaccinations are against church/religious doctrine:

The following denominations do have a theological objection to vaccination:
  • Dutch Reformed Congregations - This denomination has a tradition of declining immunizations. Some members decline vaccination on the basis that it interferes with divine providence. However, others within the faith accept immunization as a gift from God to be used with gratitude.
  • Faith healing denominations including:
  • Faith Tabernacle
  • Church of the First Born
  • Faith Assembly
  • End Time Ministries
Pretty much every other established religion does not have restrictions on vaccines, and most promote them to their members.
 
I am married to a retired AF healthcare practitioner and she her colleagues feel that COVID is here to stay, so it seems that the vaccine could easily become regular. So that's one thing to consider about whether to go military. Plus, there most likely will be other vaccines and likely from a fetal cell line.

As respects exemptions though, I like what a hospital in Arkansas did:

"The hospital’s form includes a list of 30 common medications that used fetal cell lines during research and development. The list includes acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft.
Employees are asked to attest that they “truthfully acknowledge and affirm that my sincerely held religious belief is consistent and true” and that they won’t use the medications listed."

"Few religions outright reject vaccinations, but some religious groups have raised the issue of vaccines being developed and tested on fetal cell lines, which are grown in labs based on aborted fetal cells, according to 9News, which spoke with an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.
"I understand why people have concerns," James Lawler, MD, the expert, who is a practicing Catholic, told the news station. "The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that's been done on fetal cell lines."

I have a hard time believing that most (not all) of the people refusing the vaccine also don't use the above medications, ot if they do find out that they'll stop.
 
unkown1961 said:
I am married to a retired AF healthcare practitioner and she her colleagues feel that COVID is here to stay, so it seems that the vaccine could easily become regular. So that's one thing to consider about whether to go military. Plus, there most likely will be other vaccines and likely from a fetal cell line.

As respects exemptions though, I like what a hospital in Arkansas did:

"The hospital’s form includes a list of 30 common medications that used fetal cell lines during research and development. The list includes acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft.
Employees are asked to attest that they “truthfully acknowledge and affirm that my sincerely held religious belief is consistent and true” and that they won’t use the medications listed."

"Few religions outright reject vaccinations, but some religious groups have raised the issue of vaccines being developed and tested on fetal cell lines, which are grown in labs based on aborted fetal cells, according to 9News, which spoke with an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.
"I understand why people have concerns," James Lawler, MD, the expert, who is a practicing Catholic, told the news station. "The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that's been done on fetal cell lines."

I have a hard time believing that most (not all) of the people refusing the vaccine also don't use the above medications, ot if they do find out that they'll stop.
Click to expand...
Also, not all fetal cells come from aborted fetuses from medically-aborted fetuses
 
808Makua said:
My son was awarded a NROTC scholarship through the Marine Corps. He did not attend NSI due to a religious exemption we requested. We were told to wait 3-6 months for a decision. Long story short, we just arrived at the school he picked and are awaiting a decision if he can participate as a College Programmer. However the cost of this college will put us in debt and are contemplating pulling him out and heading home. The staff here has never dealt with a situation like this and they are “looking into it”.

Per Great Lakes, if his RE is approved and he successfully completes 2023 NSI he will be reimbursed. However if it’s denied then the scholarship is lost and we are stuck with the bill.

With the CDC recent revisions of all its Covid mandates, service members winning their court cases and more information regarding the C-19 vaccine efficacy we are praying that the military will drop it’s mandate.

Is there anyone else out there in the same situation as us, where their child won a Navy ROTC scholarship and did not attend NSI due to a RE?
Click to expand...
If your religion is absolutely against any type of vaccination, IMHO it may be a good move for your son to consider another line of work. As a military member he will likely be required to get numerous vaccinations in his time in the service and if your religion forbids this it may not be a good move for him to join the military. Think UCMJ and major problems going forward while your son is serving.

On the college issue, IMHO NEVER, NEVER, NEVER choose a school based on an ROTC Scholarship knowing if there is problem you cannot afford the school. Far too many things COULD occur, injury, academic issue, discipline issues, military issues, etc! While usually things work out, there have been horror stories on these forums where waivers fell thru and the parents ended up on the hook for $100K plus in school costs. If there IS ANY doubt, find a school your son likes (maybe an in-state school) that has the same or similar major program and that you can afford if there are ANY problems. If your son is academically sound most universities offer all kinds of financial aid, both in house and thru the federal government that make the school very affordable. ROTC at YALE or ROTC at State U are no different in terms of Commissioning. Both get your son to the exact same place, but may relieve the stress on you the parents while he attends. Being a College Programmer for two years is a good way to give the waiver process time to work out (no one has any idea where things will be in two years with vaccines) without incurring tons of debt.
 
I have a DD with a Nursing Scholarship who is now starting her Jr. year. She has applied for a religious exemption and we still have not heard anything. To date, she is still in ROTC and participates however, she did not attend Advance Camp this summer due to her lack of a C-vaccine. There is a high possibility she could lose her scholarship and we will have to pay back the funds... we are prepared to do so.

Now we are not an Anti-Vaccine family. However, we are an Anti-EUA family as we prefer to know the "vaccine" is tried and true before we insert it into our bodies.

I personally served in the Army and received all my vaccinations (this was the 1st and only FLU shot I received my entire life). After that when it was recommended to get the Flu shot, I had no issues from command on my denial and this was as early as 1986 with my objections. My DD also has all of her vaccinations that are NOT EUA and the Hospital she does her clinical with has no issues and accepted it.

Now for the list above about Aspirin, Pepto-Bismol, etc. I have heard that as well... my response is this. Aspirin was around since the early 1800s, we did not have stem-cell technology back then, therefore it could NOT have been used in the development of Aspirin. Pepto-Bismol was around in the early 1900s, the same thing... in fact, stem-cell usage for pharmaceuticals didn't even start until the early 2000s, while all of the above-listed drugs were developed prior to that. So I don't buy that argument. If the pharma industry decided to test after the fact that does not apply to religious issues as the drugs were previously developed.

Also, everyone seems to forget that there still are no BLA Covid vaccines available in the USA per the CDC, which includes Novavax. The only BLA-approved products will NOT be manufactured.

- The reference here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/iis/COVID-19-related-codes.html

Once there is a BLA-approved vaccine that is available, then there will be no issue with us taking a vaccine.

NO ONE should ever be forced to take a EUA vaccine.

Just my 2 cents.
 
ECOSSE said:
Once there is a BLA-approved vaccine that is available, then there will be no issue with us taking a vaccine.

NO ONE should ever be forced to take a EUA vaccine.
Click to expand...
***** Dateline January 2022 ***** There already have been regulatory decisions that the stocks of the prior EUA vaccines are chemically and defacto identical to the fully approved versions.

1660933018682.png
 
OldRetSWO said:
***** Dateline January 2022 ***** There already have been regulatory decisions that the stocks of the prior EUA vaccines are chemically and defacto identical to the fully approved versions.

View attachment 12784
Click to expand...
Yes, I am aware of this. However, a Federal Judge has already declared this not to be the case.
1.) As the EUA version of the product was NOT produced in a BLA-Approved facility, therefore, it can in no way be BLA approved.
2.) Pfizer admitted in court that "only certain lots" had the same formulation and Pfizer could not produce the lot #s.
2b.) DOD admitted in court that there is no method to ensure the Military receives ONLY the vials with the same formula as the BLE approved formula.
3.) The DOD acknowledges that the President has not executed a waiver under section, ECF No. 45 at 52:8-9 which is the only method to override the EUA for the Military.

So even though the Judge denied the injunction due to a different issue of the plaintiff, he did lay the framework for a successful injunction case.

See: DOE et al v. Austin et al: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GJK_7afp6XHoB0Yo4dKopBCL7BYUqI1765uXF6FBJ-0/edit
 
ECOSSE said:
Yes, I am aware of this. However, a Federal Judge has already declared this not to be the case.
1.) As the EUA version of the product was NOT produced in a BLA-Approved facility, therefore, it can in no way be BLA approved.
2.) Pfizer admitted in court that "only certain lots" had the same formulation and Pfizer could not produce the lot #s.
2b.) DOD admitted in court that there is no method to ensure the Military receives ONLY the vials with the same formula as the BLE approved formula.
3.) The DOD acknowledges that the President has not executed a waiver under section, ECF No. 45 at 52:8-9 which is the only method to override the EUA for the Military.

So even though the Judge denied the injunction due to a different issue of the plaintiff, he did lay the framework for a successful injunction case.

See: DOE et al v. Austin et al: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GJK_7afp6XHoB0Yo4dKopBCL7BYUqI1765uXF6FBJ-0/edit
Click to expand...
Also, I do not want to argue this over a forum... I just thought this would be helpful for the original poster. This is my view only and I respect the view of others. Cheers to all!
 
Everyone has the "Right" to do whatever they deem appropriate, BEFORE they enter military service. Once they "Take the Oath" they swear they will abide by the orders of those appointed above them. If the President, or SecDef orders a vaccine then as member of the military either you get it of face whatever the Authority that orders it deems proper. I forget how many "shots" I received in my time in the service, but not once was I told what they were or given a choice. You @ECOSSE, and I are too old to remember the Gulf War and all the different vaccines deploying troops were given, without choice, prior to deployment. Many got sick, others ended up with lingering aftereffects causing disabilities, but those failing to get them all were either processed out or deemed undeployable which effectively ruined their careers.

JMHO, but if someone has problems with complying with orders to prevent themselves and others from getting ill or even killed (think Anthrax), then maybe they should look at other avenues of employment. We don't have a draft, no one is forcing anyone to do something they feel is wrong, but by the same token if you know you have issues with something in the field you are looking to enter, then maybe look to another field that does not require you to do something against your will or beliefs.
 
Impulsive, your position isn't incompatible with what Ecosse is saying. He says it quite well actually.

For the OP, here is an article I came across from last October that may interest you. Check out the attached statement regarding religious waiver. It was 10 months ago so things may have changed but I found it interesting.

www.navytimes.com

Archbishop: Catholic troops can refuse COVID-19 vaccine

Archbishop for the Military Services, USA releases new guidance on COVID-19 vaccines for Catholic troops.
www.navytimes.com www.navytimes.com
 
Some of you may find interesting the scholarly work of Dorit Reiss quoted several times in the article linked above by Captain Meyers ("Like many pieces of disinformation, there is a kernel of truth on which people latch, said Dorit Reiss, professor at University California Hastings Law."). A lot of the issues I have pondered over the last two years she addresses in linked videos and law review articles. Vaccine refusal, informed consent, regulatory capture, mandates, religious exemptions, it's all there. I myself am not convinced for most of what I read or watched but many of you may find her arguments helpful and persuasive. Her thinking is definitely in line with perhaps the majority of the expressed opinions on this board regarding vaccines.

www.uchastings.edu

Dorit Reiss, Professor of Law - UC Hastings College of the Law

Professor Dorit Rubinstein Reiss' research examines the accountability of agencies at the state, national and international level. Increasingly, however, her research and activities are focused on legal issues related to vaccines, including exemption laws and tort liability related to...
www.uchastings.edu www.uchastings.edu

Author Page for Dorit Rubinstein Reiss :: SSRN

Total downloads of all papers by Dorit Rubinstein Reiss
papers.ssrn.com
 
JP4 said:
Impulsive, your position isn't incompatible with what Ecosse is saying. He says it quite well actually.

For the OP, here is an article I came across from last October that may interest you. Check out the attached statement regarding religious waiver. It was 10 months ago so things may have changed but I found it interesting.

www.navytimes.com

Archbishop: Catholic troops can refuse COVID-19 vaccine

Archbishop for the Military Services, USA releases new guidance on COVID-19 vaccines for Catholic troops.
www.navytimes.com www.navytimes.com
Click to expand...
Pope Francis stated in a Pontifical Message on Aug 18, 2021, that taking the "vaccine" was morally correct for the betterment of society.
That kinda overruled any/all Catholic clergy's opinions, I'm thinking.

I know many folks that claimed a religious exemption and yet they took flu vaccines, and others and their religious body say it's okay...kinda nullifies their arguments (and they all were denied).

But in the end, it's not my opinion or anyone else's that matters, it's the individuals.
 
Not here to comment on the vaccine or give advice on how to take legal action against the government, but just some observations.

The DOD is still requiring the vaccine. Those that have taken legal action and won have been retained, but it has not had an insignificant effect on their career progression. For example, the stay on restrictions to reassignment of operational personnel was granted to the Navy earlier this year, and the group of SEALs/ship CO were reassigned to shore duty. I wouldn't hold my breath on legal action against the DOD to resolve this anytime soon.

It's not really valid to compare officers seeking to be retained and candidates seeking to be enter an accession program. Waiver and exemption standards are different for personnel that already represent significant investment vs. high school student with none.

In short, the process takes a long time, and if you've found yourself on a short timeline, you might want to queue up other options. Not a good idea to hope that a government bureaucracy will do anything quickly. State school and PLC/OCS later are possible options.
 
Just some more information on this subject:

1.) Judge Merryday just ruled that Marines cannot be discharged for C19-Vaccine refusal who applied for Religious exemption. Interesting read.
- https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22140638-marines-order

We now have two injunctions, one for the Air Force and one for the Marines.

I would suggest a careful read of page 15 of the order along with the footnotes.
 
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