Offerer AFROTC CLS scholarship - not sure what to do

[Rocko]

Does the AFROTC place more weight on Math and English ACT scores like the Academy does (Not sure it is true but that is what has been posted)?

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

Sorry to keep belaboring this but what do you think are the chances that my son will receive a type 7. He scored as follows:

• GPA 3.2 unweighted
• Takes honors and AP classes
• Fitness: 58 push-ups in a minute, 46 sit-ups in a minute, and 9.22 mile and a half.
• SAT: 1350 for math + reading, 1970 combined super score
• ACT: 28
• Plays 2 varsity sports - lettered in both and team captain on one
• Has other extra-circular activities

Whoa, 3.2 unweighted gpa? I had a 4.167 weighted gpa(like 3.9 unweighted), all AP/Honors, 2 varsity sports, ~1900 SAT, and a number of other extracurriculars and I got a type 7(granted, my #1 was instate already so why waste a higher type on someone who doesn't need one?). But there were people with similar stats who got absolutely nothing.

SAT is pretty good, but not so amazing that he would be a shoo in for a definite scholarship. Was that a typo? If it wasn't I'd say you really need to take another look at that bird in the hand because to be honest a 3.2 unweighted is very low for a national AFROTC scholarship.

 

[Pima]

My assumption would be yes, Math matters.

The 3.2 doesn't worry me as much because they stated it was a 7 point scale, so there is a chance that they will up his cgpa. The issue for Barry to understand is that the school profile will play into the equation too.

Barry, I don't know if he wants to go rated, but there is a double edge sword to this issue as an engineering major. If the AF considers it critical manned than the chances of getting a rated slot drop drastically. I believe the last few years EES had a slim chance of going rated due to this fact.

Non Ducor,

How could you have a 4.167 uwcgpa if the scale is 4.0?

That being said, the school profile is going to matter too. For example, if 50% go Ivy, and their rank is top 20%, they are going to see that the hs is very high ranked, thus the 3.2 will be adjusted for that aspect. Trust me, as an AF Mom that taught in schools in different states, a 4.5 in one his would be equivalent to a 3.75 in another district.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

My assumption would be yes, Math matters.

The 3.2 doesn't worry me as much because they stated it was a 7 point scale, so there is a chance that they will up his cgpa. The issue for Barry to understand is that the school profile will play into the equation too.

Barry, I don't know if he wants to go rated, but there is a double edge sword to this issue as an engineering major. If the AF considers it critical manned than the chances of getting a rated slot drop drastically. I believe the last few years EES had a slim chance of going rated due to this fact.

Non Ducor,

How could you have a 4.167 uwcgpa if the scale is 4.0?

That being said, the school profile is going to matter too. For example, if 50% go Ivy, and their rank is top 20%, they are going to see that the hs is very high ranked, thus the 3.2 will be adjusted for that aspect. Trust me, as an AF Mom that taught in schools in different states, a 4.5 in one his would be equivalent to a 3.75 in another district.

Pima,

I said 4.167 weighted, 3.9 unweighted on a 4.0 scale.

I'm curious to know how this 7 point system works, what exactly is considered a high gpa on that scale? And as far as AFROTC adjusting your gpa, isn't the gpa that shows up on your portal the one they've adjusted to the general 4.0 scale?

 

[Packer]

Pima,

I said 4.167 weighted, 3.9 unweighted on a 4.0 scale.

I'm curious to know how this 7 point system works, what exactly is considered a high gpa on that scale? And as far as AFROTC adjusting your gpa, isn't the gpa that shows up on your portal the one they've adjusted to the general 4.0 scale?

I missed the 7 point scale in the post but it would be 100-93 A, 92-85 B, etc.

 

[Pima]

Sorry my brain moved faster than my eyes.

Packer is correct for the scale. A C on a 7 point scale is an 84. I believe the poster is a parent, thus they maybe thinking their HS transcript is what is on their portal, which is not true. Our DS's GPA went up on his portal by .25, but had I not found this site I would have assumed his portal was the same as his hs because I never looked on his portal.

Either way though, this is the reason I hate when posters ask chance me. The school profile matters too. That is why we can give anecdotal stats, but without knowing the school profile we are just throwing out numbers.

Every year there are posters that we try to soften the blow from a chance perspective, and ones that they say their stats are amazing. Yet, the amazing poster gets the regret letter and the other gets the contract letter.

The old adage is you have 0% chance if you don't apply. Take heed itis true. Just as it is true too that you need to have plan B, C and D in place. Finally, remember that once in AFROTC the slate is wiped clean. The CoC will not care if you are in scholarship. SFT selection does not know, it is called masked.

 

[Moosestache]

1. Your should be very proud of your son he has done very well in high school!!

Niceties out of the way, and the caveat being I am not an expert,


But I would be very concerned about getting another scholarship. The GPA is low, SAT's are average. I just have to go by what people here post, but the scholarships seem to be incredibly competitive, and with the numbers shrinking I would remember the one in the hand two in the bush thing. If the scholarship is important for your son to go to school I would tell my son to take it.

Have your son ask himself, would I be happier going to this school with a scholarship, or going to that school without one.

 

[kinnem]

1. Your should be very proud of your son he has done very well in high school!!

Niceties out of the way, and the caveat being I am not an expert,


But I would be very concerned about getting another scholarship. The GPA is low, SAT's are average. I just have to go by what people here post, but the scholarships seem to be incredibly competitive, and with the numbers shrinking I would remember the one in the hand two in the bush thing. If the scholarship is important for your son to go to school I would tell my son to take it.

Have your son ask himself, would I be happier going to this school with a scholarship, or going to that school without one.

The answer probably depends on how much skin the DS has in the game. One of my arguments for always making sure your child has skin in the game.

My son ended up at his #1 choice out of state college without an NROTC scholarship (sorry to those who have heard this before). He did win a merit scholarship from the college that was only open to OOS students which brought tuition down to near in-state rates. He had to maintain a 3.0 GPA to keep the scholarship and the cost was still $2.5K more per semester than sending him to an in-state school. The deal I made with him was he had to make up the difference in cost through student loans and he had to maintain the 3.0 or he was coming back home.... no exceptions. It certainly motivated him to do well and got a little of the costs off Dad's back. It pays for the kids to have skin in the game so they give some consideration to the costs and make somewhat rational decisions.

 

[Packer]

The answer probably depends on how much skin the DS has in the game. One of my arguments for always making sure your child has skin in the game.

My son ended up at his #1 choice out of state college without an NROTC scholarship (sorry to those who have heard this before). He did win a merit scholarship from the college that was only open to OOS students which brought tuition down to near in-state rates. He had to maintain a 3.0 GPA to keep the scholarship and the cost was still $2.5K more per semester than sending him to an in-state school. The deal I made with him was he had to make up the difference in cost through student loans and he had to maintain the 3.0 or he was coming back home.... no exceptions. It certainly motivated him to do well and got a little of the costs off Dad's back. It pays for the kids to have skin in the game so they give some consideration to the costs and make somewhat rational decisions.

Agree on the skin in the game.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

The answer probably depends on how much skin the DS has in the game. One of my arguments for always making sure your child has skin in the game.

My son ended up at his #1 choice out of state college without an NROTC scholarship (sorry to those who have heard this before). He did win a merit scholarship from the college that was only open to OOS students which brought tuition down to near in-state rates. He had to maintain a 3.0 GPA to keep the scholarship and the cost was still $2.5K more per semester than sending him to an in-state school. The deal I made with him was he had to make up the difference in cost through student loans and he had to maintain the 3.0 or he was coming back home.... no exceptions. It certainly motivated him to do well and got a little of the costs off Dad's back. It pays for the kids to have skin in the game so they give some consideration to the costs and make somewhat rational decisions.

A very kind offer from you in my opinion. My parents told me and my 5 siblings from a young age, "You better get a scholarship or be prepared to take student loans because we're not paying for it." They could probably afford to put one of us through college fully if they wanted lol, but they're not going to help with anything other than minor expenses and I wouldn't want them to. It just wouldn't feel right. They have their own student loans, just like many other parents, and I'm well and able to take care of my own.

 

[kinnem]

A very kind offer from you in my opinion. My parents told me and my 5 siblings from a young age, "You better get a scholarship or be prepared to take student loans because we're not paying for it." They could probably afford to put one of us through college fully if they wanted lol, but they're not going to help with anything other than minor expenses and I wouldn't want them to. It just wouldn't feel right. They have their own student loans, just like many other parents, and I'm well and able to take care of my own.

You're certainly right about that. My tuition was covered through a merit scholarship. The rest I financed with jobs whenever I could find one, student loans, and a $300 cash value life insurance policy my folks had on me. Oh yeah, Mom and Dad sent $7.00 a week spending money. WooHoo!!!

I felt I was more than generous to my son but then I'd been saving since he'd been born too. Of course that money is gone now and the final 1.5 years is really putting a pinch to Dad's retirement income. Thank God he got the sideload.

 

[FlyingWildcatDad]

Barry, I have to agree with the other posters on this thread, probably need to take the scholarship with the stats your DS has. My DS had a 3.87/4.36 GPA, 31 composite ACT (33 Math & 35 English), president of NHS, VP of senior class, and captain of varsity soccer team and he got a Type 7 scholarship. By what other posters have stated along with own personal experience, I think a Type 1 or Type 2 is out of the question. Just know, getting a type 7 is not a guarantee either, just look at past years stats of kids from past years on this forum that got nothing.

 

[Moosestache]

Of course the other thing to keep in mind is about 33% of kids end up transferring schools, which always calls into question how our kids come up with their first choice schools. I have two sons in school, one who transferred his second year, and one who ended up at his third choice with every intention of transferring and absolutely loves where he ended up.

A day trip with a tour and maybe one overnight visit certainly doesn't give a kid much information to make a $200,000 investment.

 

[Pima]

I agree Moose.

The thing to place in the equation for an AFROTC cadet is they will only have the 1st three semesters to prove their self to the CoC for SFT selection. Transferring in to a new det. most likely will mean no ROTC position in the fall because many of the 200s will know their position in the spring before they go home for the summer. Even if they don't do it that way, the cadre will still not know them, this they will go with the known cadet.
~~~This will matter for selection because 50% of the score is the CoCs rank/rec.

 

[Moosestache]

I agree Moose.

The thing to place in the equation for an AFROTC cadet is they will only have the 1st three semesters to prove their self to the CoC for SFT selection. Transferring in to a new det. most likely will mean no ROTC position in the fall because many of the 200s will know their position in the spring before they go home for the summer. Even if they don't do it that way, the cadre will still not know them, this they will go with the known cadet.
~~~This will matter for selection because 50% of the score is the CoCs rank/rec.

Yes, my son transferred and joined ROTC the start of his second year. He had to work really hard to get up to speed and get that FT slot. It is possible, but much harder.

I guess the point I was trying to impart is an awful lot of kids make their college choices based upon an extremely limited amount of experience and information.

I would think that the way it should be presented to your child is, would you like to go to college and graduate owing nothing, or go to college and pay for a new house for the next 30 years that you will never be able to live in or even look at.

 

[barryg9999]

First I want to thank everyone for their tremendous input. We made the decision to sign on with our local school and take the scholarship that they offered. My son is quite thrilled to receive this honor. The offer just put us into a bit of a tailspin as we did not expect to have to make the decision on which college for another two months.

And to Moose's point, you are spot on. My son will graduate from college owing nothing.

I spoke with the Captain of my son's preferred school and he said that scholarships are not as easy to come by anymore and that my son can always request a transfer later.

Thanks again and I look forward to staying part of this community on service academy forums.

 

[navymomwannabe]

First I want to thank everyone for their tremendous input. We made the decision to sign on with our local school and take the scholarship that they offered. My son is quite thrilled to receive this honor. The offer just put us into a bit of a tailspin as we did not expect to have to make the decision on which college for another two months.

And to Moose's point, you are spot on. My son will graduate from college owing nothing.

I spoke with the Captain of my son's preferred school and he said that scholarships are not as easy to come by anymore and that my son can always request a transfer later.

Thanks again and I look forward to staying part of this community on service academy forums.

Congratulations! I wish you and your son all the best.

 

[Pima]

Congrats Barry.

Moose,

We are both on the same page. I would add one more thing that is akin to selecting colleges. Selecting majors. So many kids select a major because they feel that they are good in the subject in high school.
~~~ Our DD entered as a psych major, she is graduating as an English major, with a paid fellowship in hand for a Masters in education.

For her this was no biggie, she still is graduating on time. For AFROTC changing a major from a tech to non-tech without the loss of the scholarship is slim to none. So many kids enter as an engineering major, but at some schools with strong engineering programs, the weeding out rate is @30%. Unfortunately, just like college selection, choosing a major from the website, college visit and glossy brochures rarely lives up to the reality of what their academic life will be like. Thus, why engineering rates for graduation are not near 100%.

 

[Moosestache]

Pima, I completely agree. I went to a school where you were accepted without declaring a major. You declared your second year. Both of my kids had to decide upon majors when they applied.

The nice thing was, none of us were on scholarships which cared what our major was, so we could have changed if we wanted to. I would think it would be a lot of pressure to know you were really kind of stuck with that major you thought you wanted before you ever took a class in that major, or you might end up forfeiting your scholarship.

 

[Pima]

I know several cadets that had to decide which way to go. Some stuck it out, but hated their academic career, some decided that they would rather be in debt than stick with it.

Which now brings us full circle. When accepting the scholarship make sure you have that family discussion regarding being able to stay without a scholarship. If it is a reach now, it will be a much bigger reach in 4 years. Our DS went OOS. Entered in 08, cost was 28k. He graduated in 12 and the cost was 41k for the incoming class of 16. DD started IS in 10, the cost was 16, it is 22+k now. Both colleges had an increase annually of 7-10%.
~~~~ On that note, a type 2 can also be an issue because unlike a 7, it is capped at 18k. If HQ AFROTC does not increase the cap in the coming years, you may also find yourself needing loans in the future. Type 7 is for IS tuition, thus as the school cost goes up, the bill will still be paid even if it goes past the 18k threshold.

Just like every traditional college bound student you can tell them that 30% do not graduate from that major until the cows come home, but it is a futile effort because not one of them believes that they will be one of the 30%. The same for AFROTC, there has never been a national average of 100% entering as a 100 commissioning 4 years later. If there was, the first year would not be a no harm, no foul release. They understand this issue, that kids illusions might not meet the AF reality.