Only for pilots?

M

MonkeyToes

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I’ve seen several posts and comments about pilots vs non pilots at USAFA and in Air Force in general. My son is making his final decision this week, and a USAFA grad asked if my son wants to fly. If yes, choose USAFA. If no, stop and talk through it.

Pilot training is not my son’s career goal, but USAFA does offer the very specific major that my son wants to study. Should he pause and reconsider because he has no intention of becoming a pilot?
 
The primary question is does he want to serve in the Air Force after graduation for a number of years. If he does, and there are non-pilot officer specialties he is interested in, and he wants the military immersive experience of USAFA, then he should be fine. The major preference follows after those major decisions.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with that primary question; hopefully he would not have gotten this far along and have 2 appointment offers if he did not want to serve. One of the aspects that plays into his final decision is this question/statement that implies you shouldn't bother to go to USAFA if you don't want to be a pilot. That's really the heart of the issue I was trying to explore with this post.
 
Agree with @Capt MJ 100%

I have two brothers that went USAFA and neither flew. While active duty, one got a Masters at MIT, the other went to get a Master in Economics at Boulder. Neither was career.

I was AFROTC and did not fly, I was Space. I enjoyed the experience greatly and was a chance to do and see things that most people never have a chance too or even know they exist. I was not career.

I never witnessed bias against non-pilots. To be fair, in Space, flying experience counts for very little since we were doing unmanned and I wasn't around for promotion boards to 0-6. I was also on a Space launch base, so the O-club was never about pilots so your other folks may have different experiences.

If your son does not want to fly and the other jobs that non-pilots perform are not interesting or meaningful to your DS, then do not go to USAFA. However, there are a ton of jobs/roles for non-pilots in the USAF that are pretty amazing. Going to USAFA will make your DS more aware of these opportunities and careers and give him line of sight to many of them so he can plan accordingly. If he is trying to decide between two different service academies, there are differences in lifestyle and culture that you may want to explore.
 
You do have to serve, but you don't have to serve as a pilot if you graduate from USAFA. You could do weather, contracting, finance, battlefield airmen, logistics, airfield operations, OSI, maintenance, security forces, space, and heck, if you don't mind sitting in a hole in the ground for hours on end, you could be a missileer. There's a litany of other jobs available, but these are the ones that come to mind. Some jobs will require a specific degree or additional graduate degrees, but if there is job that you want to do in the Air Force, the Academy has a path to almost all of them.

If you want to fly, USAFA is the place to go. Yes, ROTC and OTS get pilot slots, but USAFA gets the lion's share.
 
NinoBaldacci said:
You do have to serve, but you don't have to serve as a pilot if you graduate from USAFA. You could do weather, contracting, finance, battlefield airmen, logistics, airfield operations, OSI, maintenance, security forces, space, and heck, if you don't mind sitting in a hole in the ground for hours on end, you could be a missileer. There's a litany of other jobs available, but these are the ones that come to mind. Some jobs will require a specific degree or additional graduate degrees, but if there is job that you want to do in the Air Force, the Academy has a path to almost all of them.

If you want to fly, USAFA is the place to go. Yes, ROTC and OTS get pilot slots, but USAFA gets the lion's share.
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What is it like as a missileer officer? I am thinking of getting an engineering degree and job, but that might not happen, so I want to explore all of my options.
 
As mentioned by others, there are plenty of jobs in the Air Force that have nothing to do with flying. Many are related to flying without being a pilot but there are just as many that have nothing to do with flying. The real question is what does he want to do in the military and see which branch fits the best. Non-pilots aren't discriminated against in the AF but it is true that pilots are the stars of the AF and do get some benefits, non-pilots don't. One example, pilots get free flight suits and since that is all they wear 99% of the time, they don't spend much money on uniforms. Nonpilots have to pay for their own uniforms. Sure pilots have to pay for all their non-flight suits like everyone else, but as I said since they rarely wear them, it's not like they go through them often and have to replace them.
 
First off, uniform expense is really not an issue. They are not that expensive and every officer is going to need blues, mess dress, etc.

Missileer....It is a different kind of job. My info is 20 years old so I don't know how much is changed. It used to be that you take a helo out, go into the tube and man it for 2 - 3 days, then you get relieved, couple days back and then repeat. Back then, a lot of folks would work on their Masters degrees while there. It is its own world and its own culture. Handling nuclear weapons requires a certain seriousness and adherence to the rules. In my day, folks were not clamoring for missile slots and if you weren't a pilot or wso slot and you did not have an engineering degree, missile was a distinct possibility. One guy wanted it for the blue flight suit and missile badge but he wasn't normal in several ways.

I imagine you will have the opportunity to learn more at USAFA. Hopefully you can find someone with a missile badge and get current first-hand feedback. 95% of the guys I knew that did it were fierce defenders of the mission and their jobs. But at the same time, 95% of the guys i knew that got missiles, didn't want it.
 
About 1/2 of a graduating class at USAFA gets a pilot slot. Numbers run ~400-500 per year depending on AF need. The rest are going to commission in other areas. There is a focus on flying at USAFA but that is not all they have to offer.

My DS is headed down the Cyber route. The Cyber program at USAFA is top-notch and the Cyber Competition Team regularly places at or near the top of competitions against MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, USNA, and USMA (There is a running joke about how bad USMA cyber is. Inter-SA rivalry thing) Cyber majors (Cyber, Comp Sci, Comp Engineering) are highly sought after and are well respected in the wing.



There is also a big push to expand the space program. There are opportunities to work on the Falcon Satellite program and become certified to man the on-base control room. If you get certified and volunteer to work in the control room you can earn your space wings.

www.airforcemag.com

Air Force Academy Looks to Become a Place for Space | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Colorado's U.S. Air Force Academy is expanding the opportunities available to students who are interested in joining the Space Force.
www.airforcemag.com www.airforcemag.com


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KiwiBird said:
What is it like as a missileer officer? I am thinking of getting an engineering degree and job, but that might not happen, so I want to explore all of my options.
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Note that you asked this of a fellow candidate. . .
 
OldRetSWO said:
Note that you asked this of a fellow candidate. . .
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I'm not a candidate. Just a grad. Regardless, I don't have any personal missile experience, just second hand from what I have heard from friends that went into the career field either by choice or by needs of the Air Force. Based on my limited experience, BuckeyeDad was pretty spot on.

I will say this though, when I was back at my tech school for some advanced follow on training, there were a handful of missile officers that were going through my AFSC's basic tech school. They were in the mid-senior captain range and had opted to change career fields. Apparently this is fairly common for them, and it makes sense. The job requires a lot of CGOs to man the missile sites and not as many FGOs for the management side of things, so to avoid getting bottle-necked with no career progression, they allowed a certain percentage to retrain. This was several years ago so I do not know if it is still common practice and what the percentage of re-trained is/was.
 
BuckeyeDad20 said:
First off, uniform expense is really not an issue. They are not that expensive and every officer is going to need blues, mess dress, etc.

Missileer....It is a different kind of job. My info is 20 years old so I don't know how much is changed. It used to be that you take a helo out, go into the tube and man it for 2 - 3 days, then you get relieved, couple days back and then repeat. Back then, a lot of folks would work on their Masters degrees while there. It is its own world and its own culture. Handling nuclear weapons requires a certain seriousness and adherence to the rules. In my day, folks were not clamoring for missile slots and if you weren't a pilot or wso slot and you did not have an engineering degree, missile was a distinct possibility. One guy wanted it for the blue flight suit and missile badge but he wasn't normal in several ways.

I imagine you will have the opportunity to learn more at USAFA. Hopefully you can find someone with a missile badge and get current first-hand feedback. 95% of the guys I knew that did it were fierce defenders of the mission and their jobs. But at the same time, 95% of the guys i knew that got missiles, didn't want it.
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I dont know if you were referring to my comment about flight suits and uniforms, but I didn't want to get into the other stuff they get that I really didn't want to get into. It was just an example. Of course, other parts of the Air Force may get their own goodies also. so I don't know
 
If worried about uniforms, just deploy. You'll get bags of "free stuff." Lol.

More seriously, half of USAFA grads do not fly. There are plenty of other career fields. Missileers are an odd bunch, imo. Their jobs are VERY controlled (rightly so, as they control weapons that can destroy whole cities). The "by the book" nature of the job can produce some interesting results in habits of thinking and leadership. That said, if you want to get into the field of international nuclear strategy and security, having that experience and security clearance would be valuable. They do deal with some cool and powerful things.
 
BuckeyeDad20 said:
Agree with @Capt MJ 100%

I have two brothers that went USAFA and neither flew. While active duty, one got a Masters at MIT, the other went to get a Master in Economics at Boulder. Neither was career.

I was AFROTC and did not fly, I was Space. I enjoyed the experience greatly and was a chance to do and see things that most people never have a chance too or even know they exist. I was not career.

I never witnessed bias against non-pilots. To be fair, in Space, flying experience counts for very little since we were doing unmanned and I wasn't around for promotion boards to 0-6. I was also on a Space launch base, so the O-club was never about pilots so your other folks may have different experiences.

If your son does not want to fly and the other jobs that non-pilots perform are not interesting or meaningful to your DS, then do not go to USAFA. However, there are a ton of jobs/roles for non-pilots in the USAF that are pretty amazing. Going to USAFA will make your DS more aware of these opportunities and careers and give him line of sight to many of them so he can plan accordingly. If he is trying to decide between two different service academies, there are differences in lifestyle and culture that you may want to explore.
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BuckeyeDad,
My son is graduating this May from USAFA and is joining the Space Force, not flying. He's always been interested in space and, even though he won't be flying, he'll be involved in both serving his country and the industry he's very interested in as a career. Your post is well received and appreciated. Any advice you can give please pass it along. THanks.
 
#Go Rinty In my day, Space Command and had just been stood up so there were a ton of politics involved in space launch back then. At the same, the NRO had just acknowledged it existence. I worked for a space launch System Program Office (SPO) for a bit and then was recruited to the NRO and while the NRO was acknowledged, NRO operating locations were not. As such, my experience was rather particular and hella fun. Message me privately if you want to hear more.

In general however, the struggle back then in Space was engineers vs operators. Space Command which was largely Missiliers wanted to fuel the booster an launch like a silo launch. Reality back then was even 30 years ago, the satellites were around $1billion and each one fairly unique requiring specific integration, engineering and procedures. So each launch was almost its own science experiment. On top pf that, the contractors do all of the hands on work and USAF watched. On our program, the govt did not even own the launch until 3 seconds of the pad. It was a great way to learn the engineering process as well as operational processes and project management though I spent more time reviewing contracts than I did engineering spec or drawings.

My next assignment would have been satellite operations which I think would have been pretty awesome, but I decided to separate instead. Back then, and probably still the same, the satellite is the customer and they have their own SPO/office so they have a lot of sway when it comes to what happens and they obviously drive all of the requirements - they also had bigger budgets. So in the food chain, satellites were above launch. My experience is dated, but having experience in satellite acquisition/development, sat ops and launch base would provide an amazing background for a career in space and sensitize you to the challenges/tensions between the different units/organizations and insight to manage and lead those teams better. Then specialize in whichever field you like best. Keep in mind each of those categories (Sat Acq, Sat Ops and Launch) have very different jobs available within them so you could stay in one category your whole career if they let you, but that is probably career limiting. Though I had one O-5 that bounced back between Los Angeles Air Force Stations and Vandenberg for most of his career rotating between Sat Acq in LA and launch ops at VAFB. (They are about 2.5 hours apart) He never got O-6, but he loved his life. And I loved Vandyland too! (but I wasn't single so...)

Again, keep in mind my info is very dated. Hopefully they have improved the process since then. Career-wise, I am sure they get better info from the permanent party at USAFA.
 
It's not what it used to be where if you didn't want to be a pilot you had to go explain yourself to the brass. Less and less of the GenZ types are interested in combat aviation so it seems to me it's no longer a stigma if you want to do something different. Don't pass up the prestige of a USAFA degree because you don't want to be a pilot.
 
Thanks to everyone for sharing thoughts and experiences here. DS did choose USAFA over another SA and an ROTC option. We are thrilled for him and fully believe that this is the best path for him personally, academically and professionally.

Sidebar story: I met someone last weekend who is currently serving in the Air Force. Turns out he faced the same choices that my son just faced.(even the same school that DS would have chosen for ROTC) This guy chose ROTC over USAFA because he wanted to fly and thought that was his best chance to earn a pilot spot. He said in ROTC those spots are given out based mostly on grades, regardless of major. He called it “Poly Sci to Fly.” He was a smart guy and felt confident he could stand out academically at a big state school. I have no idea if his theory overall was correct, but it worked for him and he got the pilot slot that he wanted!
 
First and Foremost I agree - Does he want to serve in the AF? My first son graduated from Texas Tech in ROTC and became an Intelligence officer in the AF-- he wants to serve-- My second son just got his ring two nights ago from AFA and wants to be a pilot-- We have also had three other family members go through the Academy and not become pilots-- two more intelligence officers and one in budget. Going to AFA helps to become a pilot but the sky is the limit .
 
coach86 said:
First and Foremost I agree - Does he want to serve in the AF? My first son graduated from Texas Tech in ROTC and became an Intelligence officer in the AF-- he wants to serve-- My second son just got his ring two nights ago from AFA and wants to be a pilot-- We have also had three other family members go through the Academy and not become pilots-- two more intelligence officers and one in budget. Going to AFA helps to become a pilot but the sky is the limit .
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Hey can u give me some insight on what intelligence officers do. I’m very interested in this field and wanna go to USAFa. But u think medically I’ll be disqualified from being a pilot
 
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