Parents

I actually wasn't insulted. Yes, I have much more of an attachment to the Navy, but I don't think it should be an insult to be mixed up with one service academy for another. The goal at all of them are basically the same. To turn civilians into soldiers who will ultimately represent their country in the most respectable way (being a part of the military). When it's war, the enemy doesn't care if they're being attacked by the Navy, Marines, Army, Air Force. It makes no difference. They're being attacked by AMERICANS.
 
Whew...I am glad I did not insult you. But, I can't wait to hear what you have to say when it is Army-Navy football time! :wink:

I like your perspective...I predict success for you at USNA.
 
Thank you. Mom predicts failure.

Army-Navy football time is definitely going to be me being a hard-core Navy supporter, of course!!
 
She will come around when she sees your success. In the meantime, stay focused on the positive, finish strong in your coursework, and stay out of trouble.

Am I allowed? Go NAVY!
 
yes this is seriously disturbing.

i just can't help but think that kids that do their own apps have the odds stacked against them. reading this board is seriously discouraging because so many kids have their parents helping them MASSIVELY on their apps, calling DODMERB (yeah, i'm watching that forum too and seeing parents admit to calling DODMERB :frown: ), and other stuff.

how do you compete against parents who will write their essays, and position them for admission?

i really think that there should be an honor code for the admission process. you do it oyurself or you go somewhere else :mad: why should a kid who doesn't care enough to do his or her own app, write their own essays, go to their own interviews, prep for their own interviews, follow up on their own documents - why should such a kid get a better shot because their parent does everything for them with 20 more years of experience? instead of us kids who have to do most of it ourselves and motivate ourselves getting an advantage, instead the kids who have essays written by parents with advanced degrees get to have more "polished packages". that just sucks.

yeah, i know why they do it. they want their kids to have the best shot. they will go out of their way to do every possible thing that gives their kids an advantage in the process. but that just makes it so much harder for the rest of us! :thumbdown:

i think those of us who are really kids should form our own subforum here- "USNA - Real Kids Only" unfortunately, it will be a itsy bitsy tiny little forum :unhappy:

i am not pointing a finger at all you parents- just expressing my frustration at this example, since i KNOW it is probably more common than not! the BGOs all say that one of their jobs is to try to figure out if it's the parents idea or the kid's idea to go to the USNA. why? because it must happen all the time that kids are pushed into it. and it is natural to think that when a kid is pushed into it, that their package is probably not their own work. am i wrong?

:tomcat:

ok, the tomcat has nothing to do with what i said, i just wanted to use it! :shake:
 
Sorry LITS. I was just trying to make the point that if someone was my enemy, I wouldn't be worried about whether he was in the Coast Guard or the Army. I'd just be thinking in my head "He's the enemy and that's that."

Basically what I was saying is that I'm not insulted by a mix-up with a Congratulations to West Point or USNA because both would be an Honor. We're all Americans and we're all on the same team... EXCEPT when it comes to the Army-Navy game.
 
I think there are more applicants out there that do their own application. With the exception of having my parents look over letters that I am sending, I have done EVERYTHING myself. Sometimes your parents can help by making sure you are sending clear messages to the admissions board. My dad was Major in the Air Force, so he knows how things should be organized and said in different letters to different people.

Quite honestly, the application process is only the beginning. Once we all arrive on I-Day, no matter whose parents did or did not do an application package, we will all be on the same boat and the best will stand out.
 
As everyone knows, the new SAT now has a writing portion along with the math and critical reading. Since the section is relatively new there is no track record to establish the correlation between scores and college performance. I have heard at least three admission professionals state, only half jokingly, that the only current use of the writing portion is that it is a good indicator of the true author of the admission essay. I can't believe that a parent would actually write the admission essay but I guess anything is possible. Just remember actions can have consequences. Plebes will take english validation tests during plebe summmer. How would this be answered? By the way there seems to be a discrepancy between you validation test and your application essay. Did you write your essay?
 
It would be in EXCEEDINGLY bad form to permit your parents to write your application essay. Were it to come out, it could be grounds for dismissal, either for submitting a fraudulent application, as a honor violation (not sure if that would strictly apply, but it certainly could) or both.

And don't think that sort of thing doesn't happen in the real world, either. While not parent-related, I remember one guy I worked with who had been with the company for the better part of 8 years. One day he was fired because they discovered that some of the stuff on his original application had been made up. Eight years up in smoke.

While some may argue that the employer probably had other reasons to get rid of him and had used that simply as a convenient excuse to do so, the fact remains that he handed them the axe with which they cut his head off.

The only thing my parents ever did for me was to nag me into getting everything done on time and taxi my butt to the interviews, doctor appointments, and the like. Dad did his part by securing some wonderful recommendations for me. Beyond that, the best thing they did was simply to be there to support my decision, especially in light of the BS I was catching from my anti-military classmates.
 
Agreed....submitting a fraudulent application should be grounds for dismissal.

If the application specifically states the candidate must write the essay, then if a parent writes it, it could be considered a violation of UCMJ Article 83 (Fraudulent Enlistment, appointment, or separation).
 
LineInTheSand,

Yes, I am aware of that. I was just pointing out that it is a military crime.
 
Many candidates bring their essays with them to their BGO interviews. Believe me, after talking with the candidate for an hour, it is pretty obvious whether the candidate wrote the essay or someone else did.

I actually confronted a candidate about this and she acknowledged that her father had "edited" it. I suggested that she go back and write it herself. Don't know if it happened. Ironically, she didn't get in (presumably for other reasons) despite being an extremely well qualified candidate.
 
Many candidates bring their essays with them to their BGO interviews. Believe me, after talking with the candidate for an hour, it is pretty obvious whether the candidate wrote the essay or someone else did.

Ha! Good point!

I bet that would stick out like a sore thumb!
 
Hearing that their are young men and women pursuing Academy appointments and they are willing to cheat to get in is very disheartening. I feel that participating in extra curricular activities just for your resume is cheating as well. We have not encouraged our son to be something or someone he is not. If he the admissions board sees him as a good fit, then great. If not, I don't want him "pretending" to be someone he isn't. I don't believe that is in his best interest or in our military's best interest. Writing your son or daughter's essay - "editing" it? Wow. It makes me sad. Nagging? Yes, I have had 16 years of training for that (21 counting his older sister). Nagging to the point that I become stressed? No way. This is HIS future. I'm busy living mine.
 
There are definately people who cheat to get in. While I was at an interview with Sen. Frist's people I ran into a kid I hadn't seen in a year. That was a kid I had met, and knew of, from Tennessee Boys' State. He had been kicked out of Boys' State for urinating on a fellow Boys' Stater's pillow. The kid had also urinated in a cup the night before and poured it on the same kid's face as he slept. It didn't take long for it to make its way to the counselors, and the kid got the boot.

He was there for his application to West Point, which he had to ask if it was for the Army.


Anyone can apply for an academy, doesn't mean they are good people. I think to think the "bad" people are usually weeded out, but even some questionable people will make it in. Many of them will continue to have problems, and many of them will not cross the stage after 4 years at that institution. The theory of who attends an academy, and the reality of it are not completely the same. This is not to say that an academy is not made up of great people. I remember feeling a little disappointed as I saw the "behind the scenes" at various academies, a feeling I also felt as I visited a friend at Yale for the weekend. We build things up in our heads, and if they fall the least bit short, there will be some disappointment.

Hold yourself accountable, and you will get through there knowing you did the right thing and you did it the right way. Did I commit an honor offense as I went through? No. Did I do other things that I would have been shown the door for. unfortunately, yes, I know I made some mistakes, but I didn't lie about them, and I didn't cover them up. You will make mistakes, and some of your mistakes will disappoint those around you and yourself. You have to take the punishment, and move on, and try to not make those mistakes again.

Also, do not forget that each academy is a "Training Environment", you will make mistakes, and you should learn from them. You'll make some good mistakes your first tour, and I assume throughout your career. The academies will be the most forgiving places to make those mistakes.
 
The theory of who attends an academy, and the reality of it are not completely the same. This is not to say that an academy is not made up of great people. I remember feeling a little disappointed as I saw the "behind the scenes" at various academies, a feeling I also felt as I visited a friend at Yale for the weekend. We build things up in our heads, and if they fall the least bit short, there will be some disappointment.

Amen.

Sad, but true. :frown:
 
I didn't even think that parents writing an essay would be a violation. It just never occured to me. See, in my friend's case, it wasn't her idea initially to go to West Point. Her parents kind of "made her see the light" and then she all of a sudden wanted to go to USMA.
 
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