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Tyman

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This really isn’t much of a question but more of a discussion of some sort. Recently ive noticed that a lot of the applications have heavy heavy involvement with their child’s application process. I don’t mean in the sense of driving them to the interview and giving them a prep talk, but rather in the sense of constantly reminding their son or daughter to complete the PFA, doing some portions of the application for them, and theirs much more. I understand not every application has this but I just want to understand what everyone else thinks on this. Personally I believe that it should be 100% (besides the pre-interview pep talk and the driving to it) reliant on the candidate. The candidate should go out and ask the question himself or herself. The candidate should already be motivated for it and not be driven by his or her parents solely. And those are my 2 cents.
 
I agree to an extent. Applying to multiple SAs/Colleges, ROTC Scholarships, finishing senior year in high school is a daunting task. My DS would not have been able to manage all the moving pieces without involvement from us in the process. I agree that the DS/DD should be at the front of the process, but this board is littered with threads about candidates either not getting medically cleared (self diagnose), missing an important step and eventually not getting into a SA or ROTC Scholarship. It was a team effort - just like everything that got him to this point.
 
Just an anecdote, as @Tyman says, it is OK to be there for your child IF AND WHEN they have questions. But soon, those children will be going off on their own, either civilian college , ROTC, or the military. YOU will not be there to advise or help them, nor can you in many instances (once they turn 18 you cannot do anything official for them nor discuss anything, HIPPA privacy etc.), so I agree with the OP, let them do everything they can and develop the skills necessary to succeed on their own, they will be in that place soon. If they make mistakes, they have learn to deal with them and correct the problem, NOT YOU! Our son's have told us that most of the people that leave a military program early on, do so because of finding out they really don't want to be there (parents usually pushing them in that direction), inability to adjust to having to do EVERYTHING themselves, or missing home. Start preparing them early, and they will succeed without our help as parents, as needs to be the case. It's OK to be there if they ask you or want to talk, but it likely not a good idea to "micromanage" your child's adulthood...:)
 
Tyman said:
This really isn’t much of a question but more of a discussion of some sort. Recently ive noticed that a lot of the applications have heavy heavy involvement with their child’s application process. I don’t mean in the sense of driving them to the interview and giving them a prep talk, but rather in the sense of constantly reminding their son or daughter to complete the PFA, doing some portions of the application for them, and theirs much more. I understand not every application has this but I just want to understand what everyone else thinks on this. Personally I believe that it should be 100% (besides the pre-interview pep talk and the driving to it) reliant on the candidate. The candidate should go out and ask the question himself or herself. The candidate should already be motivated for it and not be driven by his or her parents solely. And those are my 2 cents.
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I can see both sides of this. Remember these are high school seniors. Right now their time and energy is being pulled in so many direction. It is easy to say that if they can't figure out how to manage their time now what will happen when they are on the battlefield. What will happen is 4+ years of maturity and a better understanding of time management. What may seem like a lack of motivation or direction can be attributed to the point of life they are at. I do not think the parent should be completing the application or doing things for their child, but I have no issues with the reminders and prodding to get things done. Not all of us were blessed at 17 or 18 with the ability to prioritize life decisions.
 
At the end of the day, families are going to do what they want to /feel they need to do with their kid.

No one on the internet can make people change their ways or to see their practices differently. They will have to learn the hard way of doing “too much” for a child, and “too much” depends on whoever you are asking.

All the same it’s a good, spicy question to debate as we wait out hearing from the service academies. 🤙
 
Like all things, we teach our kids. And there are a lot of teaching moments during this (18 mos for a SA) process. Teaching them will set them up for success once they are gone. It is like that saying 'teach a man to fish, he will eat forever' or similar. BUT they do NOT know the nuances of this process coming out of the womb! Different kids will need different amounts of direction, but showing them HOW to do it, VS doing it for them is how I roll personally. FIO, and if it is an important piece, brief me on it so I can make suggestions if needed. IE filling out the medical questionnaire...this NEEDS an adult look over IMO. When have most kids had an opportunity to know about managing their medical records/history? And now isn't the time to throw that to the wolves. They won't need guidance once they are gone, but IMO, a 17 yr old high school kid still may for certain important pieces.

This is NOT saying 'do it all for them', or make the calls, or do the emails or followups. Or even call admissions (a pet peeve of mine personally...). But a review of key pieces, or answering questions, or teaching HOW to do things are all teaching moments. Just like teaching my kids to cook (microwave vs oven cook the bacon...it matters!).

This is a transitional time of 'adulting' as we call it here. Yes, they are independent but are newly practicing their adult selves. All of my kids are fiercely independent, we have taught them all along how to do for themselves. BTW my opinions are the same for my non-military kiddos. Too much at stake to not assist with buying the first home, for example. TEACH them how to do that, but also be there in an advisory role for guidance/questions.

The growth, maturity, ability to manage all things are so different with even one year out of the home.
 
justdoit19 said:
Like all things, we teach our kids. And there are a lot of teaching moments during this (18 mos for a SA) process. Teaching them will set them up for success once they are gone. It is like that saying 'teach a man to fish, he will eat forever' or similar. BUT they do NOT know the nuances of this process coming out of the womb! Different kids will need different amounts of direction, but showing them HOW to do it, VS doing it for them is how I roll personally. FIO, and if it is an important piece, brief me on it so I can make suggestions if needed. IE filling out the medical questionnaire...this NEEDS an adult look over IMO. When have most kids had an opportunity to know about managing their medical records/history? And now isn't the time to throw that to the wolves. They won't need guidance once they are gone, but IMO, a 17 yr old high school kid still may for certain important pieces.

This is NOT saying 'do it all for them', or make the calls, or do the emails or followups. Or even call admissions (a pet peeve of mine personally...). But a review of key pieces, or answering questions, or teaching HOW to do things are all teaching moments. Just like teaching my kids to cook (microwave vs oven cook the bacon...it matters!).

This is a transitional time of 'adulting' as we call it here. Yes, they are independent but are newly practicing their adult selves. All of my kids are fiercely independent, we have taught them all along how to do for themselves. BTW my opinions are the same for my non-military kiddos. Too much at stake to not assist with buying the first home, for example. TEACH them how to do that, but also be there in an advisory role for guidance/questions.

The growth, maturity, ability to manage all things are so different with even one year out of the home.
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Agreed. Honestly, even if my kid does not get an appointment (from one of three he applied to) or AROTC scholarship, I am GRATEFUL for all that he's learned about himself, interviewing, communicating, writing, being complete, not procrastinating..... YES, teachable moments, indeed, on a path that he chose and that will serve him well, regardless where he ends up.
 
Tyman said:
This really isn’t much of a question but more of a discussion of some sort. Recently ive noticed that a lot of the applications have heavy heavy involvement with their child’s application process. I don’t mean in the sense of driving them to the interview and giving them a prep talk, but rather in the sense of constantly reminding their son or daughter to complete the PFA, doing some portions of the application for them, and theirs much more. I understand not every application has this but I just want to understand what everyone else thinks on this. Personally I believe that it should be 100% (besides the pre-interview pep talk and the driving to it) reliant on the candidate. The candidate should go out and ask the question himself or herself. The candidate should already be motivated for it and not be driven by his or her parents solely. And those are my 2 cents.
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I agree with this to a certain extent. I personally don't see it being wrong when parents help their kids on applications, but I feel like having your hand held through the entire process is making kids lose out on a lot of learning opportunities and experience. My parents are actually greatly opposed to me following the path of AROTC so I had to do everything by myself (but I did have the help of all you guys on the forum so thank you <3) which was difficult at times but I've learned so much more about overcoming obstacles and figuring out things for myself. Don't get me wrong I really wish my parents will support me one day, but I have learned a lot doing things for myself.
 
I disagree with the premise of the OP statement.

There is a HUGE difference between "doing everything for your kid", and being there to guide and advise them, and help with the legwork of checking on requirements and deadlines and helping them manage it all.

Keeping in mind that the vast majority of successful SA applicants are superstars, usually top of their high school classes, with extensive involvement in athletics, clubs, scouting, volunteer work etc. In other words, their plates are pretty dang full. They also didn't rise to the top academically, athletically, and in leadership experience etc. simply because "their parents did the work for them."

I would further submit that having involved parents is a big part of what made a successful SA candidate and future military officer the person they are.
 
Bubby'sDad said:
I disagree with the premise of the OP statement.

There is a HUGE difference between "doing everything for your kid", and being there to guide and advise them, and help with the legwork of checking on requirements and deadlines and helping them manage it all.

Keeping in mind that the vast majority of successful SA applicants are superstars, usually top of their high school classes, with extensive involvement in athletics, clubs, scouting, volunteer work etc. In other words, their plates are pretty dang full. They also didn't rise to the top academically, athletically, and in leadership experience etc. simply because "their parents did the work for them."

I would further submit that having involved parents is a big part of what made a successful SA candidate and future military officer the person they are.
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Couldn't agree more with this. With multiple fall sports, leading Captain's practices, SA, ROTC and civilian college apps not to mention a rigorous academic load in his Senior year I was only glad to provide guidance and advice when my son asked for it. Will never have this experience again no matter where he ends up...
 
They're kids. I have no problem with hounding them to get things done and keeping them on track. They must write the essays but I would proofread, check for grammar, suggest things they missed. I would definitely suggest parents go over the medical stuff with them. I don't think that approach is too much assistance. My son, who got a ticket once, was ready to check the box that he had been arrested. I had to explain the difference to him as it was his first encounter with the law. I would help answer questions he might have particularly if it was something on the application he didn't understand. As I said earlier, they're still kids. The key is that it's them who shines through the application and not the parent.

Just one man's two cents.
 
My DS insisted on doing it all alone. I have no idea what he wrote in his essays or his survey. I gave him some materials to review before his interview, but he didn’t want to discuss it. He got a 3 year to his first choice. Maybe some “helpful tips” or interview prep would have gotten him a 4 year, we will never know. But the sense of independence and accomplishment he gained from doing this 100% on his own was a big lesson for me.
 
I emphatically agree with @kinnem above. When my eldest was in the athletic recruiting process I helped fairly actively. At 16 he would not have been able to juggle school, sports, and the multi-part elements of the early stages of college recruiting - communicating effectively about stats and measurables and expected tournament schedules etc with multiple coaches. However, a few months later I came downstairs one night and heard him on the phone with a head coach who had called out of the blue. By the time he committed, I knew basically what he was thinking, but hadn't been asked for help or my opinion for a few months. He had to make the decision about who he wanted to be with in a dugout for 4 years just as the coaches had to decide on him. The maturation process was rapid and actually my favorite memory of that whole time.

I expect for my DS interested in attending an academy that he will follow a similar progression in his own way. I will attempt to help in the early stages and over time my role will shift to advise and facilitate when asked
 
Tyman said:
This really isn’t much of a question but more of a discussion of some sort. Recently ive noticed that a lot of the applications have heavy heavy involvement with their child’s application process. I don’t mean in the sense of driving them to the interview and giving them a prep talk, but rather in the sense of constantly reminding their son or daughter to complete the PFA, doing some portions of the application for them, and theirs much more. I understand not every application has this but I just want to understand what everyone else thinks on this. Personally I believe that it should be 100% (besides the pre-interview pep talk and the driving to it) reliant on the candidate. The candidate should go out and ask the question himself or herself. The candidate should already be motivated for it and not be driven by his or her parents solely. And those are my 2 cents.
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Each child/student is different. Some need the help and some dont. I would suspect that most of the kids applying for the academy are over achievers and probably dont need any help or at the very least the constant reminders to do their applications. Having said that, there are brilliant people of all ages who can be lazy, bad with time management or forgetful. I would imagine that these traits are probably going to work against you if you get accepted to an academy. However, lets not forget that for the most part, these are 17 year old mostly males whose maturity level isnt exactly at their peak. Let not also forget that plenty of parents pay for private college counselors that help get them into the Ivys as well as athe academies. My son is one of these kids who didnt see what he did today impacted what his future would be. We helped him get into college and thankfully he grew up somewhat and did a nice job there including working to get himself a pilot spot in the Air Force. As a parent, I feel its my job to help my children achieve the best possible path for themselves. How they do on that path is on them. Having said even if could have helped my son get into Harvard or Yale, I wouldnt have done so because I knew it wouldnt have been a good fit for him.
 
100 percent echo Kinnem. My daughter was also going to mark things that would have been incorrect In the process, specifically on the medical form as well and could have caused issues. In addition to our ROTC child, we similarly had to guide two others through athletic recruiting and this same discussion camee up with parents. “They are the ones that will be playing the sport they need to do it all in their own.” The kids were 15/16 during this process and they We’re really freaked out and needed help. Similarly as a parent, I had to find out a lot of info to know how to guide them, that process is not as intuitive as one would think. I would say that is the same as the ROTC process. And some of the great skills my oldest (and the two athletes) has now for organization and follow through came directly from working through the scholarship/recruiting processes and that came from being guided and taught.

Now I am down the road, I have a MS4 who will commission in May and I have two juniors in college who will be playing their last college season next fall and graduating the spring after.

I did prompt, remind, suggest, be the one who got the right information, and sometimes even nagged or directed for their own good, I did not do it for them. I did not send emails, or write essays or call coaches or ROOs, but I definitely helped look up info or looked up a phone number or two. but that being said, that is all in the past, once they were at school, it was up to them and my oldest had her cadre (ROTC), and for the student-athletes they had coaches and their advisors, and they all had peers. My role changed to checking in once in while to see if they needed anything and being of assistance when asked, If they missed deadlines, that was on them, and there is built in accountability for all of them to make mistakes and learn. Sometimes if they asked me a question, the answer to the question would be “have you asked your cadre or coach?“ Sometimes when it was general I would ask this forum, or search a NCAA rule up on the internet, bit any answer I got still needed to be verified by the leaders in each of their programs.

The transition is different for each student and family, maybe for some seniors in high school it already has happened and they are driving the bus 100 percent, but for most it will happen once they are at school and have their new tribe to help them out.
 
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