Petreaus resigns

DevilDog

10-Year Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
671
Honestly I think this is a sign that the military needs to really reshift its focus when we finally get out of A-stan.

There has been (in my eyes) a massive corruption of the basic moral values and discipline of the military in the past decade of war, and it has had an effect on the entire rank structure of the military. It seems like we no longer take pride in the rigor and discipline of the military structure. I've been seeing this crap in junior troops (cheating on their spouses, etc) for years and years even up to the field grade officers, but this whole scandal shows how corrupt and unworkable our military system has become recently.

In no other time were soldiers required to go on 3, 4 sometimes upwards of 7+ deployments during their careers, effectively shutting down their relationships with the real world and their spouses. Then when they get home, they face more rigorous training before their next deployment, during which they get little time to spend with their families. Meanwhile, due to harsh rules and inadequate rest/relaxation time, you have joes getting drunk, DUIs and going to jail because they're so wound up.

I honestly can't wait till the whole GWOT saga is over and we can rebuild the military into a respectable and workable organization. I know this is a rant, but it's frustrating to preach Army values and all that and see the nation's highest leaders flagrantly violate those same values.

Do you REALLY think that this type of infedility/behavior has been going on only over the past 10 years, or only due to the stress of combat? Don't be naive. This type of behavior has gone on in the military since there was a need for a military.

Also, what is GWOT saga?
 

Tigger

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2012
Messages
209
GWOT=Global War on Terror?

I am generally pretty good with TLAs, but adding a fourth makes it more challenging:)
 

NJDAD

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
50
Hard to believe so many intelligent people can't grasp the proper use of email...
 

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
Hard to believe so many intelligent people can't grasp the proper use of email...
Actually they used a system that works quite well when you want to hide your outgoing email messages.

They used a common/shared GMail account where both people have the "log-on" information, and left messages to each other in the "Drafts" folder so they were never sent across the network and instead resided on the GMail server in the cloud.
 

usna1985

10-Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
5,965
Folks,

Understand this is a topic of great interest. However, let's keep all discussion professional and respectful.

Thank you.
 

buff81

Moderator
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
3,019
I don't it's the source of commission, rather the rank that confers "infidelity" to some general officers.
My tongue in cheek comment was not meant to bash WP.
Petraeus and others that have had fidelity issues have a presence at WP. These Generals should be the ultimate role models for the cadets. How sad that the values that WP instills in the cadets have not been upheld by these members of the Long Grey Line that are in the highest ranks.

Buff81: General Allen is a Marine and not a product of West Point. A Naval Academy graduate. The story gets weirder and weirder.
I posted my comment before General Allen became a part of this soap opera, but I did google his name when I first heard that he had entered the fray wondering if he was WP grad.

The story does get stranger by the minute and the networks are eating it up.
 

MemberLG

5-Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
2,958
My tongue in cheek comment was not meant to bash WP.
Petraeus and others that have had fidelity issues have a presence at WP. These Generals should be the ultimate role models for the cadets. How sad that the values that WP instills in the cadets have not been upheld by these members of the Long Grey Line that are in the highest ranks.
Respectfully disagree, WP graduate 4 star generals are not the ultimate role models for cadets. Only a handful of WP grduates become 4 stars, little more becomes general officers, but the majority achieve greatness in something else than becoming 4 star generals

There sare some bad apples. I am not defending what General Preareus did, but I also know that he is only a human being. I think everyone makes mistakes. Is President Grant a role model? He had a drinking problem. Is General MacArthur a role model? He went against President Truman during the Korean War. Is General Patton a role model? He slapped a soldier.
 
Last edited:

buff81

Moderator
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
3,019
Respectfully disagree that WP graduate 4 star generals are not the ultimate role models for cadets. Only a handful of WP grduates become 4 stars, little more becomes general officers, but the majority achieve greatness in something else than becoming 4 star generals

There sare some bad apples. I am not defending what General Preareus did, but I also know that he is only a human being. I think everyone makes mistakes. Is President Grant a role model? He had a drinking problem. Is General MacArthur a role model? He went against President Truman during the Korean War. Is General Patton a role model? He slapped a soldier.
I was referring only the specific Generals with fidelity issues - not all Generals.
A WP grad role model to a cadet is hopefully one who upholds the values that WP instills in them - Duty, Honor, Country. All three.

I do hope that Petraeus's legacy will focus on what he did for our country while wearing the uniform.
 

MemberLG

5-Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
2,958
A WP grad role model to a cadet is hopefully one who upholds the values that WP instills in them - Duty, Honor, Country. All three.

I do hope that Petraeus's legacy will focus on what he did for our country while wearing the uniform.
As a WP grad and active NG officer, I believe General Petraeus upholds the values of Duty, Honor, Country. No questioning of his service to our country. He made a mistake. He did the honorable thing by resigning, instead of trying to make excuses and stay (not to get politicial, but if a sitting President can lie on national TV about his sexual relationship with an intern why can a CIA director stay at his position. I can think of many public figures who kept on doing what they were doing after getting caught doing something wrong. ). I would have no respect for him if he didn't resign.
 

buff81

Moderator
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
3,019
As a WP grad and active NG officer, I believe General Petraeus upholds the values of Duty, Honor, Country. No questioning of his service to our country. He made a mistake. He did the honorable thing by resigning, instead of trying to make excuses and stay (not to get politicial, but if a sitting President can lie on national TV about his sexual relationship with an intern why can a CIA director stay at his position. I can think of many public figures who kept on doing what they were doing after getting caught doing something wrong. ). I would have no respect for him if he didn't resign.
Couldn't agree with you more that he did the honorable thing by resigning. It has been reported that that was his WP background that had him feel the need to resign instead of staying in his position like the others you mentioned did.
But - he did not do the honorable thing by having an affair.
 

LineInTheSand

USCGA 2006
10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
9,209
And I think we can assume that not all CIA officials are the purest of heart. But, then, would you really want them to be?
 

scoutpilot

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4,530
In discussing it here overseas, some interesting points were raised. One such point was something along the lines of "America wants its military to be effective. She wants soldiers/Marines who will readily place the crosshairs on someone and end that life. She wants folks who will drive down a road knowing they will likely be attacked or blown up. She wants leaders who thrive in stressful, bloody, and morally ambiguous environments. And she wants to be able to send those people around the world for years at a time to do dirty business in horrid locales. America wants all of that...and she wants it with no side effects."

I'm not saying it does or doesn't excuse his behavior. But it's something to think about. There are side effects to this.
 

LineInTheSand

USCGA 2006
10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
9,209
Of course, you aren't suggesting the 4-stars in question have done any of that in quite some time....
 

breadcrumbs

5-Year Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2010
Messages
58
I think it's time to re-release 'Fatal Attraction', version 2.0 in movie theater's across the nation. :thumb: :thumb:
 

scoutpilot

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4,530
I guess I did not read the statement as narrowly as you did. As a CWO-4 I cannot tell you how surprised people are to learn that I regularly saw combat. Many assumed (wrongly) that I was in a safe office during my tours. However my office usually consisted of a HMMWV.

In general these men had the task that included directing the death and carnage upon our enemy. They were deployed multiple times over very short periods which tend to isolate them. This can isolation can lead them to feel alone which can lead to making poor personal choices. I understand that this comment is very general….

As Scout stated…. This is not excusing the behavior.

To answer your question specifically, I am guessing for Gen Allen the last time he was actually in the field was 06' - 08' time period when he was Deputy Commander of II MEF and actual commander of II MEB. I know that he spent a good deal of time during OIF 06-08 in Al Anbar. Not exactly a “garden Spot” back then. My understanding is that he was regularly on the move in the combat zone.

I really could not tell you the last time Gen. Petraeus was in the field….probably during the early stages of the war when he led the 101st.
Glad to see someone gets it. Excellent points, all.

He's no saint, for sure. Saints tend to make poor combat leaders.
 

Luigi59

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
4,628
As Scout stated…. This is not excusing the behavior.
If not "excusing" it, it is certainly an attempt to justify it.

excusing - to disregard as of trivial importance.

justify - to prove or show to be reasonable.
The best definition of "honor" and "character" is "how you behave when you think no one else is watching or will find out."

And no one can take your honor or character away from you, you make the choice to give them away.

Unfortunately, he made a decision to cheat. And he gave away both.
 

MemberLG

5-Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
2,958
If not "excusing" it, it is certainly an attempt to justify it.



The best definition of "honor" and "character" is "how you behave when you think no one else is watching or will find out."

And no one can take your honor or character away from you, you make the choice to give them away.

Unfortunately, he made a decision to cheat. And he gave away both.
I agree, but the best definition of "honor" and "character" does not include never making any mistake or being perfect.

If General Peteraus gave his honor and character away by cheating, he got it back some of it back by resigning.

Just to be clear, I am happily married, have not cheated and don't plan to.
 
Top