Phone Calls?

[tallbutshort]

I haven't been in the Army or attended West Point (yet! ), so I'm really not qualified to make this statement but I'll make it anyway:
West Point is not the Army. Should he have stayed, his career in the Army would have been MUCH different than the first 8 days of beast. It seems like he's leaving before he's really seen what he's leaving behind. But hey, it's his life and he has every right to resign.

 

[buff81]

This reason for leaving -

... When he called he wasn't crying and saying, "I miss you guys and the dog and my girlfriend... this sucks. I'm coming home."

would be more understandable than this reason for leaving -

He was very calm and very certain, and talking about his long-term future in the military, and whether or not a commitment to being in the military is something he really wants for himself and future family. He decided that it wasn't.

The first shows homesickness and that Beast just basically sucks at times. Most NC's experience this. It's normal. Beast is not just physically tough, but mentally tough.

The second reason (his reason) 'sounds' like he really didn't understand what he was agreeing to when he accepted his appointment. That's why some on here have lamented about the kid that didn't get the spot that your brother has. Maybe he didn't do his homework about West Point or maybe his MALO/FFR didn't delve into why he wanted West Point or explain to him what the military life is like, but what ever the reason, this is sad. I wish he would have stayed until A-Day. He might have realized that military life was what he wanted after all. Beast is very hard mentally and to make a decision after a few days is short sighted. I know someone my age who left after 3 weeks and never looked back. I've also heard of those who regretted leaving Beast and had the 'what ifs' throughout their life. I sincerely hope your brother never regrets.

Your brother is not the first to question that military life is not for him this early on in Beast. Last year, a New Cadet in DS's squad left the first day or two for 'conscientious objector' reasons. Seems he didn't know that going to West Point- The United States MILITARY Academy -meant that he might have to fight in a war one day.

 

[Sierra1]

I didn't latch onto a vague rumor and assume it is truth. All I did was relay exactly what the squad leaders said. I didn't provide any commentary. People can interpret it however they want. It seems to me like the CBT Beast Regiment Commander was just talking big about beating on the plebes when he really can't do much.

The cadets were messing with you!

 

[scoutpilot]

@scoutpilot; Quite frankly, my brother had the right [and apparently, academic and athletic talent] to pursue what he had, at the time, thought was his dream. If a kid didn't get a nomination, perhaps they should have put more effort into it. Really, I don't think anyone who can't earn the nomination in the first place is in any kind of position to whine about or criticize someone who gives it up. Let's see them actually get that far first, eh?

Furthermore, there were no "horror stories" he told us; he had no problem with Basic Training itself. As I already said, he was actually having fun with the rigor of the athletic and physical parts of it. He isn't someone who easily gives up. He simply realized that the military is not where he wants to spend the next four years, and he has every right to make that decision; he earned that accomplishment, and he can walk away from it if he so chooses.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to have much of a grasp of the admissions process, so I will not delve into an argument with you. Suffice it to say that there were more-qualified applicants than your brother who did not receive a slot.

Remember that while he may have had what you call the "right" to take a slot and then throw it away, he also had the responsibility to make sure he actually had some understanding of what attending West Point means. Clearly, he failed in that responsibility. Rights come with inherent responsibilities, always.

I'm glad he didn't tell you any horror stories. But all the same, what he told you is likely not the truth either. When New Cadets fail, they rarely tell anyone at home that they couldn't hack it. They're crying is usually done in their rooms. When it's time to talk to mom and dad, they usually fall back on the old line: "it's just not for me...I can do it, I just don't want to." Only he, his roommate, and his squad leader will ever know the whole truth.

I hope for the sake of the Academy and the nation that if you seek a nomination, you actually know what you're getting into. Don't fail to notice the "military" aspect of the Military Academy before you go.

 

[Dixieland]

I remember when DS had his in-home meeting with his Field Force Representative last summer, they talked for 45 minutes to an hour. Since Mom was not invited to be part of the conversation, I could only ask later what all they had discussed. He said he caught the FFR up on what he had been doing in school, etc., since they last talked, but that the majority of their conversation was about serving in the Army and life in the Army. I remember DS saying, "He wanted to make sure I understood what it was like."

Keep asking the blunt, startling questions of the candidates, scoutpilot.

 

[Maximus]

We heard from his girlfriend yesterday that all is fine. Roomie from nc. Food is good, military part fantastic. Gets yelled at but nothing one would quit over. A bit surprised she got called instead of us hmmm I guess they are growing up!

...no call for us and we're assuming "she" got the call

However....we did get a letter (on fine West Point stationary lol) two days ago, mailed on 1 July, stating: Don't worry! he's fine and was surprised at how well organized CBT is over last years CCBT at Prep. He also said he's really getting along great with his Roommates and Cadre, he was able to help a lot of the other direct appointment new cadets, and they thanked him for it! My wife and I perceived a very positive attitude and I thought this may be the case, he's been working on this for a long time and was looking forward to just getting to West Point after a year at Prep.

We're still looking for that call though

 

[Maximus]

@scoutpilot; Quite frankly, my brother had the right [and apparently, academic and athletic talent] to pursue what he had, at the time, thought was his dream. If a kid didn't get a nomination, perhaps they should have put more effort into it. Really, I don't think anyone who can't earn the nomination in the first place is in any kind of position to whine about or criticize someone who gives it up. Let's see them actually get that far first, eh?

Furthermore, there were no "horror stories" he told us; he had no problem with Basic Training itself. As I already said, he was actually having fun with the rigor of the athletic and physical parts of it. He isn't someone who easily gives up. He simply realized that the military is not where he wants to spend the next four years, and he has every right to make that decision; he earned that accomplishment, and he can walk away from it if he so chooses.

@elan_xu; I really don't think so; he was very gung ho about Basic Training before he left, and he didn't have any complaints about it when we talked to him, just very serious doubts about whether or not this was something he truly wanted. And as far as him having seen enough of it, I guess he did. -shrug-

@hkim93; Well, just put your best into it, and whoever EARNS the slot will get it.

Great attitude, not a surprise though all things considered

 

[PotentialParent]

As a parent of a new cadet, and someone who has benefited greatly from this forum, I am thankful for people like scoutpilot. I could not agree more with the different statements made by him in this thread. Instead of questioning the young man that quit, and his brother, I would just like to say that future candidates should do what they can, to really understand what they are pursuing in trying to obtain admission to a service academy.

There is so much information out there, on this and other sites, including DOD sites, that should be read, viewed and reflected upon. Seek out and talk to as many knowledgeable folks as you can. You owe it to YOURSELF to not go into this process half-knowing. It is a serious commitment. One of the most important decisions you will ever make.

 

[billyb]

It seems like a lot of harsh comments from people on this board who have never gone to West Point. It is a unique experience and very hard to comprehend unless you have actually been there and done it.

I agree it is unfortunate that some decide to leave a couple of days into beast. I think if most of them stuck it out until the academic year, then they would be glad they did. However, I never resented those that chose to leave. It is hard, really hard.

I saw my beast roommate leave 1 week into beast. I saw quite a few people leave during beast when I was a plebe, but that was back in the day when they didn't let you eat etc... the corp has...

As a CBT1 squad leader I saw new cadets in my squad/platoon/company leave as well for many different reasons.

Most of the time these kids are the cream of the crop (academically and in other areas) in their local high school/communities and have been that way since they were 10 years old.

It is a huge shock to their system to be directed around at a frantic pace, being yelled at and only able to have 4 responses to use when someone asks a question.

In most of the circumstances I have seen, it is a blow to their ego that they have never had before and they just can't get past it. They know they can go back home and in 1 or 2 days be that superstar again.

I am not saying it is right for those that choose to leave early on. They are probably making a mistake, but it is a unique experience and unless you have experienced it first hand then it is hard to be so critical of people going through it.

I am sure West Point has in their formula an expected % that is going to resign and that is all taken into account for the # of people they admit each year.

 

[Szpieg]

It is sad to hear that people have already left; but I guess I can't say anything becausec I never did it, but personally, I would try my hardest to stay until the academic year. I know that I will be satisfied after those six weeks. My SLS cadre told me that they had a calendar where they counted down every day until the end of Beast. Every day they told themselves why they were there and that there are only n days left. Anyways, good luck to those that left; I always wondered what you do if you resign, can you still attend college that year, or must you wait?

Personal experience: First two days of SLS were very difficult. First day when we arrived and we first entered the barracks for our stuff, my hands shook like mad. It must be very hard to ajust seeing that I was only there for a week with probably very little of the harshness compared to Beast. But every day it got better seeing that I got used to it and started to love it.

 

[AcademyFriend1]

I have several relatives who have attended service academies. All referenced friends or squad mates who dropped out during Beast/plebe summer/plebe year--sometimes even though it seemed they were performing swimmingly. Once they truly experienced it, they realized the military was not for them. It is my impression this is not uncommon and the SAs build such attrition into their assumptions. Finally, let's remember these are young people. It would be great if all truly knew their own minds, but by way of analogy, how many couples know they will get divorced on their wedding days? Yet the divorce rate is 50%. Good luck to the young man, and the rest of 2014 will continue to drive on.

 

[M2inOR]

Though it has been said before, here is a suggestion to candidates for several books to read:
- Absolutely American
- Battle Dress

And view the DVD set:
Surviving West Point by National Geographic

If you have the time, they are all excellent.

These will help you understand things a bit better, and give you a better idea what to expect. My son read/viewed these, as well as several others and found them quite valuable.

 

[NV_USMA_Mom]

Received our phone call tonight. He sounded great-just like he was across town!

He's not sleeping much, he's sweaty all the time, his cadre yells at every opportunity-but he's getting used to it! He is enjoying the field nav and he says the physical workouts are 'easy' but the chemistry test was hard!

All in all, my NC seems to be right where he should be: Not enjoying things completely, but seeing the humor in his experience and looking forward to what lies ahead.

What other good news can we share?

 

[Iwheel]

Sleep time concern

Thanks for sharing the info. It sounds like your son is doing just fine. That is great.
Yeah, I do have a concern as I read your post. Son used to sleep 9-10 hrs per day at home (don't laugh), like a baby. Now he gets up 5am and Taps at 10 pm. That is only 7 hours. How can he get enough sleep for the activities during the day? A week of two maybe ok but for 6 weeks he may just fall in sleep in his walk.

 

[Peter]

Thanks for sharing the info. It sounds like your son is doing just fine. That is great.
Yeah, I do have a concern as I read your post. Son used to sleep 9-10 hrs per day at home (don't laugh), like a baby. Now he gets up 5am and Taps at 10 pm. That is only 7 hours. How can he get enough sleep for the activities during the day? A week of two maybe ok but for 6 weeks he may just fall in sleep in his walk.

Isn't 7 hours substantial enough for a human being to perform?

 

[scoutpilot]

Isn't 7 hours substantial enough for a human being to perform?

7 hours is a luxury. Rarely will a military career afford him that. 5 hours was the norm on a deployment. Your son will be fine with "only" 7 hours.

 

[Peter]

7 hours is a luxury. Rarely will a military career afford him that. 5 hours was the norm on a deployment. Your son will be fine with "only" 7 hours.

Exactly. I get by with 7 hours at home anyway. As a military institution, being that it is still "college," I can understand cadets having 7 hours of sleep, as their life is very structured. However, I'm sure being in the army, an officer or soldier will have to put behind sleeping hours for the sake of completing tasks.

 

[scoutpilot]

Exactly. I get by with 7 hours at home anyway. As a military institution, being that it is still "college," I can understand cadets having 7 hours of sleep, as their life is very structured. However, I'm sure being in the army, an officer or soldier will have to put behind sleeping hours for the sake of completing tasks.

That's often the case. The larger point here is that if anyone "falls asleep while walking" because they're only getting 7 hours consistently, he/she has a medical issue and needs to see a professional.

 

[Maximus]

Thanks for sharing the info. It sounds like your son is doing just fine. That is great.
Yeah, I do have a concern as I read your post. Son used to sleep 9-10 hrs per day at home (don't laugh), like a baby. Now he gets up 5am and Taps at 10 pm. That is only 7 hours. How can he get enough sleep for the activities during the day? A week of two maybe ok but for 6 weeks he may just fall in sleep in his walk.

You'll find that most teens today are allowed to have unfettered access to texting while in bed, they'll end up staying up all night long and sleep well past noon the next day if allowed. It's a matter of responsibility and discipline. We still pay for DS phone and I checked his activity last year when I heard a complaint of being tired all the time....I found that the "LOL's" were coming in till the wee hours of the morning!!!

We fixed that problem quick: shut your damn phone off!!! At the very least at midnight if you expect to sleep!
He was pissed that I looked at his phone records but, it did two things 1) he now wants his own phone account and 2) he realized that he was staying up way too long at night and playing silly games with people that didn't have the same responsibilities he had the next day.

I also never let him sleep past what thought was decent hour in the morning over the last few years. I know...mean dad but, I laugh my butt off when my son complains that: "all his friends sleep past noon everyday when not in school". Good for them I say, they'll be sleepy and unproductive all day, break the cycle!

I know that's harsh, but it's the reality today with phones/cameras on them.

7 hours of sleep is more than enough.

 

[scoutpilot]

You'll find that most teens today are allowed to have unfettered access to texting while in bed, they'll end up staying up all night long and sleep well past noon the next day if allowed. It's a matter of responsibility and discipline. We still pay for DS phone and I checked his activity last year when I heard a complaint of being tired all the time....I found that the "LOL's" were coming in till the wee hours of the morning!!!

We fixed that problem quick: shut your damn phone off!!! At the very least at midnight if you expect to sleep!
He was pissed that I looked at his phone records but, it did two things 1) he now wants his own phone account and 2) he realized that he was staying up way too long at night and playing silly games with people that didn't have the same responsibilities he had the next day.

I also never let him sleep past what thought was decent hour in the morning over the last few years. I know...mean dad but, I laugh my butt off when my son complains that: "all his friends sleep past noon everyday when not in school". Good for them I say, they'll be sleepy and unproductive all day, break the cycle!

I know that's harsh, but it's the reality today with phones/cameras on them.

7 hours of sleep is more than enough.

That's good s*** right there.