- Joined
- Feb 20, 2016
- Messages
- 1,305
Plan b college is angry
- Thread starter Mom22
- Start date
It's called a "call" option. It is your right, but not obligation to "exercise" it. The deposit is the "premium", which usually is lost.
Words to live by: "Keep the greatest number of options open to the last possible moment."
Don't think the Privates are any better. Admissions Departments may employ some decent humans, but as an institution they are mostly shameless.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2016
- Messages
- 1,305
I think they call that "a business "!
It's been an eye opening experience this year with son 2. Eldest chose to attend a school he could commute to for a few years. The big business aspect of college and the communication styles has been varied within son 2's educational choices. My alma mater has been the least communicative and tiresome. [emoji15]
The issue of morality is not with respect to the college, but with other applicants waiting for an opportunity to materialize. Those who insist that no individual is denied an opportunity are sticking their heads in the sand, the same as those who rationalize their decision by referring to yield management. Watch the College Confidential forum for Plan B wait list. If Plan B is a competitive school, there will be many wait listed applicants checking in every day hoping to find information about movement on the wait list.
Deciding whether or not to double deposit is an individual decision - there is no absolute right or wrong. New cadets and midshipmen are put in this situation by the service academies, not the colleges, and should consider if they should take steps to protect themselves. However, in doing so one should not ignore the consequences or the risks (yes, there are risks) of that decision.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
Call it a put (from a school), call it a call (from the applicant).... it's an option and it's being used to hedge his chances.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
Schools provide more offers than spots in a class.... why? Because not everyone will accept an offer. It has nothing to do with morality and it's already built into the offer numbers.
USMAROTCFamily
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2013
- Messages
- 1,130
Sure, colleges offer more acceptances than their class size will be (just like academies do), knowing that not all offered will accept. However, they all have a deadline to accept whether it be April 15th for USAFA or USMA or May 1st for the rest. The issue is the May 1st deadline. If you tell a college by that date that you are attending, then that is what they are expecting.
As somebody said long ago in this thread, none of these posts will change the viewpoint of somebody who believes this practice is unethical anymore than it will change the mind of somebody who feel this is perfectly acceptable. This reminds me of the housing bust after "the great recession." Homeowners who bought their homes at the height of the market were walking away from their homes (even though they could pay the mortgages) and turning in the keys, feeling it was better to take a temporary hit on their credit scores, but then after a short amount of time they could qualify to buy the same home for much less than they originally paid for it. Those who did it felt there was nothing wrong with it and was simply a strategic move, similar to what big businesses did, while others felt it was ethically wrong. I guess that is why there is a difference between ethics, morals and legalities. Life teaches us not everyone has the same standards.
I've been surprised by how long this thread has run as well as the position that some universities seem to have taken. Since some are concerned that there may be ethical/moral issues with accepting two offers, I thought I would put forward an alternative approach which my DS used when he accepted his appointment to USAFA in the spring of 2016.
He emailed his backup preferred civilian university, which is ranked within the top 10 nationally, and asked if he could defer entry for a year. They readily agreed to this. Although, they did ask him what he was going to do during his gap year. He said he had the opportunity to spend time in a part of the U.S. he had never visited and was going to take flying lessons during the year. The civilian university readily offered him a spot for entry in the fall of 2017. This past December the civilian university contacted him and indicated that they would be contacting him during May 2017 to confirm whether he would be enrolling in the fall 2017. This approach certainly does not adversely effect any other applicants to the civilian university.
This plan b approach is a bit different in that it doesn't deal with the case of individuals who want the option to drop out of an SA appointment during the summer. To me that's a good thing. While I appreciate the efficacy of maintaining a plan b, the bigger issue may be whether such backup plans actually encourage some individuals to withdraw voluntarily during the summer? I feel appointees who voluntarily withdraw during the first few months is probably a much greater issue/concern than not showing up for a spot at a civilian university. In the case of an SA, withdrawing appointees really do deprive someone else of a spot and the SA can not make it up by offering a last minute appointment to someone else.
My suspicion is that most individuals who drop out are individuals who really didn't want to be there and may have succumbed to other pressures (prestige, family or money) to accept an appointment when they were not fully committed to the realities of what comes with choosing an SA. Of course, there will also be some individuals who believed they were fully committed and simply change their minds as to their longer term career and life interests. In both cases it is unfortunate that they could not have figured this out before accepting an appointment.
In any event, deferring by a year is a different approach which may actually be a better plan b. It removes any pressure for an appointee to make an early decision on withdrawing and at least in our case the civilian universities practices seem to recognize that one's plans may change during the year.
He emailed his backup preferred civilian university, which is ranked within the top 10 nationally, and asked if he could defer entry for a year. They readily agreed to this. Although, they did ask him what he was going to do during his gap year. He said he had the opportunity to spend time in a part of the U.S. he had never visited and was going to take flying lessons during the year. The civilian university readily offered him a spot for entry in the fall of 2017. This past December the civilian university contacted him and indicated that they would be contacting him during May 2017 to confirm whether he would be enrolling in the fall 2017. This approach certainly does not adversely effect any other applicants to the civilian university.
This plan b approach is a bit different in that it doesn't deal with the case of individuals who want the option to drop out of an SA appointment during the summer. To me that's a good thing. While I appreciate the efficacy of maintaining a plan b, the bigger issue may be whether such backup plans actually encourage some individuals to withdraw voluntarily during the summer? I feel appointees who voluntarily withdraw during the first few months is probably a much greater issue/concern than not showing up for a spot at a civilian university. In the case of an SA, withdrawing appointees really do deprive someone else of a spot and the SA can not make it up by offering a last minute appointment to someone else.
My suspicion is that most individuals who drop out are individuals who really didn't want to be there and may have succumbed to other pressures (prestige, family or money) to accept an appointment when they were not fully committed to the realities of what comes with choosing an SA. Of course, there will also be some individuals who believed they were fully committed and simply change their minds as to their longer term career and life interests. In both cases it is unfortunate that they could not have figured this out before accepting an appointment.
In any event, deferring by a year is a different approach which may actually be a better plan b. It removes any pressure for an appointee to make an early decision on withdrawing and at least in our case the civilian universities practices seem to recognize that one's plans may change during the year.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2016
- Messages
- 1,344
As I have said in some of my posts from last year when this was brought up, the key is open lines of communication with your plan B university. From the beginning, when DD filled out her application for and was accepted to plans B and C, she indicated on the forms that they were her "second choice". Granted, this made her ineligible for some scholarships, however, it was being honest and the two universities knew full well that she might not be there. Just prior to May 1st, we contacted her plan B university, paid the $200+ enrollment fee, signed up for the latest orientation date, and explained where she was going and when she would let them know for sure about her intentions to attend or not. They were very pleasant about it, and wished her the best. If someone sees something immoral or unethical about honesty and open lines of communication, please let me know.
The same logic would apply to someone holding multiple service academy appointments until R Day/I Day, and no one knowledgeable of the appointment process would fail to see a moral issue with that scenario.
The yield management absolves morality issues argument is false. If one person double deposits, in most cases no one is harmed. It is a small sin. A breach of a signed agreement that was required by colleges using their leverage and a situation of "no harm, no foul" with respect to other applicants. When many people double deposit, it is more likely to negatively affect other students. Admissions cycles close and students get too entrenched with their Plan B to reverse course to Plan A.
Rules against double depositing were implemented for good reason - to prevent individual behavior from harming the group as a whole. But the target is selfish students holding multiple spots because they can't decide, not service academy cadets/mids trying to protect themselves against unforeseen mishaps. Many colleges will recognize the difference and agree to Plan B status. This option is without moral issue and without risk of getting caught.
Actually, the College sold the call. They took the opposite side of the trade and accepted the call premium(deposit).
The applicant paid for the right but not the obligation to claim a spot. The University is obligated to provide a spot if the applicant exercises his/her right to claim it. The call buyer is out the premium and the college keeps the premium regardless of whether or not the call option is exercised.
parentalunit2
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2010
- Messages
- 672
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
Oh I don't know.. I still say put... the college is under no obligation to "sell" a spot.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
But if everyone double deposits, deposits could be halved (per applicant), and there would be no difference.
Maybe we should encourage double depositing!
I am on my college's admissions board, and gaaahhhh, this makes me really angry when colleges do this to parents and young people.
We understand that some proportion of the students we offer admission won't come. They'll join the military, or the Peace Corps, or go to community college, or get that coveted spot at their Plan A, or work, or decide to go to Australia. Even with the relatively small class we admit, our admissions office is pretty good about anticipating that. I understand we'll even give the deposit back if they ask real nice-like
If it were me, I'd tell them to stop threatening me and go take a flying leap. Well, maybe not that last part - but I'd think it.
Thank you for this post! I really appreciate it. And would you believe it is $900? I was going to call and ask for it back, but I was appreciative of their counter offer to defer his admission to Spring of 2018. Our HS counselor is very well acquainted with this school and she was in full support of doing this as well. She had more to lose than we did!
Praying for a healthy and successful Beast experience!!!
Thank you everyone!
LongAgoPlebe
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2010
- Messages
- 493
That's classy of the school to defer DS' admission to spring '18, just in case anything happens at Beast and he has to defer to next year! Let's hope the issue is moot, and that DS has a fantastic but injury-free Beast!
Just reading this thread for the first time and here's our experience. DD was accepted EA to academy before Thanksgiving, accepted appointment soon after, but mom said let's put deposit at state school just in case. DD and dad felt that wasn't necessary, mom insisted, but was ignored. DD gets an injury after May 1, medically DQd. After a couple of weeks of tremendous worry and loads of paperwork/emails- granted waiver, conditional on exam during the first week at academy. DD scrambled and was able to get state school to agree to take her if she was unable to go to academy. Very stressful 6 weeks (including AP exams, final exams, graduation, etc) made way more so because no plan B deposit.
Bottom line- This is different than double dipping that other kids do. The safety net of a civilian college needs to be there because you just don't know what can happen. If you are worried that your kid will look at that Plan B as an easy "out" then you should really dissect the academy decision. My daughter would have been devastated if she had to use Plan B, but I am thankful it was there (eventually) because some things are beyond their control.
Bottom line- This is different than double dipping that other kids do. The safety net of a civilian college needs to be there because you just don't know what can happen. If you are worried that your kid will look at that Plan B as an easy "out" then you should really dissect the academy decision. My daughter would have been devastated if she had to use Plan B, but I am thankful it was there (eventually) because some things are beyond their control.
DesertCaliMom
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 584
DS has early acceptance to Iowa State. He had a candid conversation with his admissions counselor about USNA being #1 and Iowa State NROTC as Plan C. Reading this thread I wonder how well they will take that in the long run...
Glad it worked out. You are correct that it is significantly different than double depositing at two civilian colleges, but many colleges may not see it that way. I am completely in favor of having a Plan B as long as the Plan B college agrees to it. There is too much risk to doing it on the sly.