Plan B college

Colleges and SA's revoke acceptances every year for a variety of reasons. Hopefully, the test case for the double commitment issue will not come after someone unwittingly follows misinformed advice on this topic.

The majority of college applicants sign the agreement against double commitments - the process is much more cumbersome without it because you can't use the Common Application.

NO ONE on this forum knows what an SA would do to a candidate reported violating it. There is no known case where an SA admissions office ignored a reported violation. No SA has issued a position statement on the matter of maintaining a Plan B in violation of an agreement.

I don't think an SA would revoke an appointment for violating an agreement against double committing and it would take a real jackass to report it to an SA. But that is just my opinion. Making a definitive statement about lack of consequences for violating a written agreement, with no evidence, would be a disservice to those seeking accurate information.
 
Billberna said:
jl123 said:
When you submitted the application to almost all civilian colleges you signed a statement agreeing not to be committed to more than one college at the same time after May 1st.
Click to expand...
jl123, We have applied to three state colleges and two private colleges, and I never recall seeing such a statement in the application. Perhaps it will appear at the time we accept an offer of enrollment and send in a deposit?
Click to expand...

If you use the Common Application it will be right before you hit the submit button. Many applicants don't read it and never realize what they signed, but the submit button will not work until that agreement is signed.

If you use the individual college's application, it will vary and they may or may not have it. If it wasn't in the individual applications, then it is not likely in the enrollment/deposit forms.

I do not have a problem with people using a Plan B. My only problem is getting a phone call from the distraught parent of an appointee who gets blindsided because they followed opinions in this forum that were stated as facts. If you use a Plan B, do it wisely and with accurate information.
 
Here is the language of a sample of the 2013 common application just before the signature:

I affirm that I will send an enrollment deposit (or equivalent) to only one institution; sending multiple deposits (or equivalent) may result in the withdrawal of my admission offers from all institutions. [Note: Students may send an enrollment deposit (or equivalent) to a second institution where they have been admitted from the waitlist, provided that they inform the first institution that they will no longer be enrolling.]​

Source:
https://genius.com/The-common-application-sample-common-application-2013-annotated
 
Christcorp said:
Look; I'll be short (That's rare); but this conversation has been discussed TOO MANY TIMES.

1. College/Service academy admissions is a business
2. You are the customer
3. Any college/Service academy you apply to and get accepted; YOU EARNED that acceptance
4. You have the right to accept/decline ANY options you have
5. You have the right to CHANGE YOUR MIND and which school you want to attend
6. The ONLY negative is you "May" lose your deposit you gave to a school that you changed your mind for later

There is no "Legal Violation" for accepting a college/university and changing your mind later and deciding to accept a different offer. I helped my kids apply to about a dozen schools; and I helped many others apply. I/we never signed anything legal stating that if the kid accepted a particular school; that they were committed and could NEVER change their mind. If there was such a thing, I would NEVER allow my kids to sign such a thing; nor would I recommend to any of the kids I help get into college that they sign such a thing. The only thing CLOSE to this, is an NCAA Recruited athlete who accepts an athletic scholarship and commits to a school. If they change their mind, they "Can" face having to sit out a year from the sport.

Other than that, you have every LEGAL RIGHT in the world to "Change your mind". There's NOTHING LEGALLY binding you from changing your mind. As said, the ONLY possibly negative, is the possible loss of your deposit. And you do not need to inform any school that they are your "Plan B" school and that you have others as a preference. Of course, this isn't to say that some schools won't try and "Scare" or "Intimidate" an applicant to not change their mind.

So much for being brief.
Click to expand...

Would it applied to those early action (?) colleges?
 
And if you go to the "CommonApp.org" site; you will see that they brag that you can apply to around 700 colleges with 1 application. That's fine; except that there's almost 5,000 colleges/universities out there. Around 4,700 who offer degrees and another 600+ that offer certified technical type degrees.

Point is; yes, it's convenient to use the "Common App"; but you have to understand the truth behind it.
1) Not all schools subscribe: Only about 15%
2) While they can try and intimidate or "Confuse" applicants about accepting to more than one school; read what AFROTC-Dad quoted. It only mentioned sending Enrollment Deposits to more than one school. Not every school that accepts you asks for a deposit. And MOST deposits aren't required until May. Some only require a deposit if you want student housing, financial aid, etc.
3) MOST IMPORTANTLY: It specifically says, you can CHANGE YOUR MIND and send a deposit to a 2nd school, as long as you tell the 1st school you gave a deposit to that you changed your mind and will no longer attend their school.

And THAT is what has been discussed here. No one mentioned putting deposits down to 3, 4, .... 8 schools. It's usually been questioned about depositing to 1 school; finding out later that you got accepted to your Plan A, and changing your mind to the first one you accepted.

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM???? NOTHING!!!!

And then there's all the other little things they don't tell you.
1. Besides the fact that only 15% subscribe to the "Common App", if your school is a "STATE UNIVERSITY" and you are a RESIDENT of that state, many states say they MUST ACCEPT you as a student (If you qualify); and thus overrides any deposits at another school if you sent more than one.
2. Military academies DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO ANYTHING. There is no "Common Application"; or "NLI" or similar. There are NO SCHOLARSHIPS, etc. If you do get your Appointment from the academy, and accept it, there is absolutely NOTHING that the other school you accepted to can say or do about it. The academy doesn't give one rat's a$$ who you turned down. They want you.
3. While most colleges/universities do require a deposit, they can't DEMAND it earlier than stated; so know your deadlines.
4. The worst case scenario in ANY situation is; you might lose your deposit from the school you changed your mind about.

Check the school you are interested in applying to.
Look at their SPECIFIC application if available. (Usually on their website). Don't look at "Common Applications"
See what that school's rules are.

In the many schools my kids applied to, and the many I helped individuals apply to, I/we/they have NEVER signed any agreements concerning other schools. EXCEPT for one individual I assisted in applying and getting accepted to Yale. She used the Coalition Application. Check with the school you are applying to.

But in the END: If you accept a school; give them a deposit; and then later get accepted to a service academy and tell the school you initially accepted to: "Sorry, I change my mind"; no problem. There's NOTHING they can do about it. The worst is you might lose your deposit.
 
flyingtigre said:
Would it applied to those early action (?) colleges?
Click to expand...
May 1st is the only significant date, irrespective of Early Action or Regular Decision.

You may accept offers of admission from as many schools as you like, but by May 1st you must decide on one school and withdraw all other acceptances. If another offer of admission materializes after May 1st you may accept it as long as you withdraw the other acceptance.
 
  • Personally, I don't think that an SA would rescind an appointment over the double deposit issue. But that is only my opinion which neither I, nor anyone else, can support with evidence.
  • Why might an SA be concerned? It's that tricky honor thing that comes up now and again at SA's. The debates on the forum clearly show a split in opinion over whether it is an ethical issue. No one here knows which side SA admissions will fall on, or if that opinion will vary by academy or change over time.
  • The language quoted by AROTC-dad is correct and does not merely state "deposit", it states "deposit (or equivalent)". Committing to enrollment is the pertinent fact whether or not money has been exchanged. Semantics are lost on a 17 year old trying to explain why he is committed to two schools.
  • Comparison to athletic LOI's is a non-sequitur. The agreement restricting double commitments is between the applicant and each college, not among a group of colleges. Common/Coalition applications are submitted to each college individually.
  • Most college admissions officers and many high school college counselors belong to a professional organization that, as a condition of membership, requires them to report violations of the double deposit agreement. Some take it more seriously than others.
  • While only about 700 colleges accept the Common Application, that group contains almost all of the most competitive and desirable colleges. Other than MIT, Georgetown, and the top University of California schools it is difficult to think of a college that is the academic equivalent of an SA that does not use the Common App. Maybe a few top public schools? Michigan, UVA, UNC accept Common App.
 
Would it be okay for my DS to accept all 3 of his appointments - USNA, USMA and USAF? Due to his indecision, he could then just flip a coin to decide which one he really wants right before having to report, right? I Day starts a week earlier than R Day this year. Could he report to USNA and try it out for a couple of days and then if he doesn't like it quit and then report for R day at USMA the next weekend?
 
USMAROTCFamily said:
Would it be okay for my DS to accept all 3 of his appointments - USNA, USMA and USAF? Due to his indecision, he could then just flip a coin to decide which one he really wants right before having to report, right? I Day starts a week earlier than R Day this year. Could he report to USNA and try it out for a couple of days and then if he doesn't like it quit and then report for R day at USMA the next weekend?
Click to expand...

Treating these as serious questions, and starting with the last - the suck at USNA Plebe Summer is going to be a close cousin of the suck at USMA. Plebe Summer is not like the rest of the USNA experience, nor is it like the Fleet or Corps. It also takes more than a few days to process out. I am sure someone will confirm this, at USNA a Plebe is not even allowed to go to Tango Company (the pool of those wishing to leave) until after a certain period has elapsed. It is not a casual decision. Plebes have taken an oath and been inducted into active duty. Plebes are counseled and given time to think about the decision. Some period of adjustment is expected.

As to accepting all appointments, well...I am sure it is possible, just like others who accept appointments and don’t show up to report in and don’t formally decline. Presumably they also do the extensive advance reporting-in admin stuff. The Academies are prepared for a small percentage who essentially blow them off, and offer numbers of appointments consistent with years of watching non-reports, declinations, separations and other attritions from any given class.

I believe the majority of candidates who are fortunate enough to have offers of appointment from more than one SA, think it through, make a decision, accept one, then gratefully decline the others. It is certainly acceptable to wait until the official deadline to accept or decline.

It’s also worth noting the inability to make a decision and take action is also a decision and an action in itself. There are always those candidates who get caught up in the competitive race (along with the family, friends and teacher euphoria and subsequent pressure to not disappoint) who haven’t really thought through the meaning of 4 years in an immersion military setting at a not-like-civilian-college followed by at least 5 years of actual service doing real world things in potentially dangerous places. Give him his space to take a breather and think about why he can’t decide. Have him re-read his essays for nom sources and the Academies, where he wrote about his desire to attend and why. Which rings truest? Which is the Academy, where, if he didn’t get his first choice of warfare specialty/ branch, there are others he would be fine with doing? Which is the dream he is least willing to give up? And...in his heart of hearts, does he want to attend a SA and go on to serve?
 
Last edited:
Capt MJ said:
USMAROTCFamily said:
Would it be okay for my DS to accept all 3 of his appointments - USNA, USMA and USAF? Due to his indecision, he could then just flip a coin to decide which one he really wants right before having to report, right? I Day starts a week earlier than R Day this year. Could he report to USNA and try it out for a couple of days and then if he doesn't like it quit and then report for R day at USMA the next weekend?
Click to expand...

Treating these as serious questions, and starting with the last - the suck at USNA Plebe Summer is going to be a close cousin of the suck at USMA. Plebe Summer is not like the rest of the USNA experience, nor is it like the Fleet or Corps. It also takes more than a few days to process out. I am sure someone will confirm this, at USNA a Plebe is not even allowed to go to Tango Company (the pool of those wishing to leave) until after a certain period has elapsed. It is not a casual decision. Plebes have taken an oath and been inducted into active duty. Plebes are counseled and given time to think about the decision. Some period of adjustment is expected.

As to accepting all appointments, well...I am sure it is possible, just like others who accept appointments and don’t show up to report in and don’t formally decline. Presumably they also do the extensive advance reporting-in admin stuff. The Academies are prepared for a small percentage who essentially blow them off, and offer numbers of appointments consistent with years of watching non-reports, declinations, separations and other attritions from any given class.

I believe the majority of candidates who are fortunate enough to have offers of appointment from more than one SA, think it through, make a decision, accept one, then gratefully decline the others. It is certainly acceptable to wait until the official deadline to accept or decline.

It’s also worth noting the inability to make a decision and take action is also a decision and an action in itself. There are always those candidates who get caught up in the competitive race (along with the family, friends and teacher euphoria and subsequent pressure to not disappoint) who haven’t really thought through the meaning of 4 years in an immersion military setting at a not-like-civilian-college followed by at least 5 years of actual service doing real world things in potentially dangerous places. Give him his space to take a breather and think about why he can’t decide. Have him re-read his essays for nom sources and the Academies, where he wrote about his desire to attend and why. Which rings truest? Which is the Academy, where, if he didn’t get his first choice of warfare specialty/ branch, there are others he would be fine with doing? Which is the dream he is least willing to give up? And...in his heart of hearts, does he want to attend a SA and go on to serve?
Click to expand...

CaptMJ - I'm sorry to have wasted your time in typing up this well written response. I was be facetious by my line of questioning above. This "Plan B" issue comes up repeatedly here, and there is a very vocal camp who feels there is no problem of accepting their academy appointment and also accepting their Plan B college enrollment and holding onto it beyond May 1st. It's been no secret that I have been on the minority side of this issue. We hear, "It is not hurting anybody," "They have earned it," "The colleges over enroll knowing some won't show up" etc. But my point in posting the ridiculous questions above, is that these same posters probably would have a very different view if an appointee to multiple academies accepted all of them and simply just showed up to their final without first declining the other appointment. If an ALO/BGO/FFR knew that one of their appointees had accepted their appointment to their academy, as well as another one or two academies, never to decline, what would they do? Would they be okay with it? Would they report it to their academy? Are there any ethical or moral dilemmas in any of this?
 
I am relieved!
I have watched this issue recur every year.
It would be a great case study for USNA 3/c Ethics.
 
P.S. on the subject.

Being most questioning this; is interested in a service academy as their #1 Plan A school; and because service academies DO NOT REQUIRE A DEPOSIT; you will NEVER be in the situation of putting a DEPOSIT DOWN on 2 schools. Just the one (Your Plan B). So, there's not conflict with teachers, counselors, colleges/universities, or the academies. You DIDN'T put down a DEPOSIT to MORE than 1 school. The academy doesn't take deposits.

As for those interested in Plan A and Plan B schools that DON'T INCLUDE service academies; again, you are allowed to change your mind. The rule simply states you can't have more than one school believe that you intend to attend their school; by giving more than one a deposit. But then again; I never thought, based on the initial questions, that anyone was interested in putting deposits down to more than one school. Simply putting a deposit down for your plan B school; and rescinding it if you get accepted to your plan A school. No problem. Schools allow it. (Actually, they have no say in it. You're allowed to change your mind).

Best of luck in your educational decisions.
 
USMA requires a $2,000 deposit. They loan the money to those that can not afford it and it is repaid through payroll deduction. Signing an enrollment form is the relevant criteria, not the exchange of money. That is where the "or equivalent" comes in.

An interesting note, although it does not affect too many - some private high schools prohibit double depositing by their students applying to college whether or not the applications contain restrictive agreements. They also limit the number of colleges to which a student may apply to what they consider a reasonable range.

That is the price paid to participate in a system that provides the best outcome for the group. They understand that their relationships with college admissions officers will be damaged by double depositors and large numbers of declined offers - real world game theory.
 
Jl123, that $2000 does not count as a deposit for attending and committing to a university.

And considering this is an academy forum, we can assume the individual wanting West Point, probably turned down their other school.

Again, this whole debate is moot and irrelevant to service academies
 
Christcorp said:
Jl123, that $2000 does not count as a deposit for attending and committing to a university.

And considering this is an academy forum, we can assume the individual wanting West Point, probably turned down their other school.

Again, this whole debate is moot and irrelevant to service academies
Click to expand...

Incorrect and Unsupported Argument : that $2000 does not count as a deposit for attending and committing to a university.

Opinion: this whole debate is moot and irrelevant to service academies

Fact (from thread last year): "My son is through basic and I contacted college back in July that he would not be coming.
They are threatening to call admissions and report the double deposit. How serious is this? Freaking out right now."

Fact (paraphrase from appointee parent): High School College Counselor: "I just opened a letter from "Plan B" and was surprised to see "Johnny's" name on the list of our students enrolling there...... this is serious........I am obligated to report it."

Fact: Above case resulted from taking irresponsible (that word is opinion) advice issued on this forum.

Opinion (mine): It is relevant to service academies when appointees face allegations of ethical misconduct, whether or not there is agreement on the validity of those allegations.

Opinion (mine): Be careful providing advice; the anxiety caused may be someone else's.
 
The academies do not subscribe to the "Common Application". Therefor; anything "IT SAYS" as far as deposits, more than one school, etc. only applies to schools that subscribe to that. Just like the NLI. It only applies if a school subscribes to it. Academies, Harvard, ... don't. So there's nothing those schools can do about it.

"Fact (from thread last year): "My son is through basic and I contacted college back in July that he would not be coming.
They are threatening to call admissions and report the double deposit. How serious is this? Freaking out right now."

They are "THREATENING" to call admissions? Did they? Serious? Not at all. Just because they can find naive individuals who won't "Call their bluff", doesn't mean it's legitimate. Anecdotal evidence and hearsay is not something I subscribe to. Tell me a legitimate case, where a cadet was called in by the Academy commander/staff/etc. and chastised or castrated because they were contacted by another university about a cadet who had changed their mind about attending that other school. I want to see that.

Same with other points. I don't care what a school "Threatens". I don't care what an internet/forum person says anecdotally. I want to see where a school contacted the academy; complained about a cadet who accepted their school and changed their mind; and that the academy took some sort of administrative action AGAINST that cadet. Until then...... it hasn't happened.
 
Christcorp said:
The academies do not subscribe to the "Common Application". Therefor; anything "IT SAYS" as far as deposits, more than one school, etc. only applies to schools that subscribe to that. Just like the NLI. It only applies if a school subscribes to it. Academies, Harvard, ... don't. So there's nothing those schools can do about it.

"Fact (from thread last year): "My son is through basic and I contacted college back in July that he would not be coming.
They are threatening to call admissions and report the double deposit. How serious is this? Freaking out right now."

They are "THREATENING" to call admissions? Did they? Serious? Not at all. Just because they can find naive individuals who won't "Call their bluff", doesn't mean it's legitimate. Anecdotal evidence and hearsay is not something I subscribe to. Tell me a legitimate case, where a cadet was called in by the Academy commander/staff/etc. and chastised or castrated because they were contacted by another university about a cadet who had changed their mind about attending that other school. I want to see that.

Same with other points. I don't care what a school "Threatens". I don't care what an internet/forum person says anecdotally. I want to see where a school contacted the academy; complained about a cadet who accepted their school and changed their mind; and that the academy took some sort of administrative action AGAINST that cadet. Until then...... it hasn't happened.
Click to expand...

Q.E.D.
 
Christcorp said:
Tell me a legitimate case, where a cadet was called in by the Academy commander/staff/etc. and chastised or castrated because they were contacted by another university about a cadet who had changed their mind about attending that other school. I want to see that.
Click to expand...

I really don't want to see that.

You can just tell us about it.

BTW What do they castrate for and what's the equivalent punishment for female cadets?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top