Plan B Question

Jcc123 said:
It's not uncommon to keep an "ace in the hole" at least until the end of plebe summer. However, you know your daughter better than anyone - how will the presence of an "escape hatch" affect her mentally when things get hard this summer? Every one of them will want to quit at some point - it's temporary insanity for most, they stay and everything turns out fine. Just a consideration.
Click to expand...
SA requires 100% commitment. There are hundreds of men and woman who are and would love to take her spot. If she is not 100% committed now, how will she be two weeks into Plebs summer if she knows she has a second choice.
 
Just to present another side to the Plan B school "holding on to the deposit" issue - I have a DD still waiting for a decision here but I am also a college admissions professional. Here's what happens when you hold on to a deposit into late summer and don't tell the school you are not coming: some student out there had their heart set on Plan B school (just as much as ours do on USNA) and they were waitlisted. Sometime in late June, Plan B school looks at all its deposited students and says "that's it, we're full." They then deny the kid who stuck it out on their waitlist and who maybe desperately wanted to go to Plan B school. That kid accepts admission at another school, attends orientation, etc. Dream gone. THEN, your kid comes along in late summer and says (hey, I survived PS) so "nevermind" on my deposit to Plan B school. Schools know when the waitlist notifications go out and most are in late June, perhaps early July. We expect it and that this is when we get any cancellations we are going to for that cycle. We don't expect them August 15th.

So, as a person who has to make some of those heartbreaking denials, I just wanted to present another viewpoint. I am not picking a side or judging - just making everyone aware. I do tend to agree with those that say you should head into PS with a mindset ready to conquer, without an "escape hatch." If your D/S doesn't end up making it, they can re-apply to Plan B school for January admission in nearly every case.

Come on - be in it to win it! Your kids are fantastic (love hearing about them!) - they can do it!
 
NavyLady64 said:
Just to present another side to the Plan B school "holding on to the deposit" issue - I have a DD still waiting for a decision here but I am also a college admissions professional. Here's what happens when you hold on to a deposit into late summer and don't tell the school you are not coming: some student out there had their heart set on Plan B school (just as much as ours do on USNA) and they were waitlisted. Sometime in late June, Plan B school looks at all its deposited students and says "that's it, we're full." They then deny the kid who stuck it out on their waitlist and who maybe desperately wanted to go to Plan B school. That kid accepts admission at another school, attends orientation, etc. Dream gone. THEN, your kid comes along in late summer and says (hey, I survived PS) so "nevermind" on my deposit to Plan B school. Schools know when the waitlist notifications go out and most are in late June, perhaps early July. We expect it and that this is when we get any cancellations we are going to for that cycle. We don't expect them August 15th.

So, as a person who has to make some of those heartbreaking denials, I just wanted to present another viewpoint. I am not picking a side or judging - just making everyone aware. I do tend to agree with those that say you should head into PS with a mindset ready to conquer, without an "escape hatch." If your D/S doesn't end up making it, they can re-apply to Plan B school for January admission in nearly every case.

Come on - be in it to win it! Your kids are fantastic (love hearing about them!) - they can do it!
Click to expand...

Both NavyLady & Nolamomma have great points and was cognizant of both points in the OP. Feel exceptionally fortunate to have the opportunity/privilege to even be at this point. Agree there are dozens if not hundreds of other qualified applicants who could and would love to have the slot and I am truly awed by the sheer dedication and character of the all the talented kids who want to be at the SA's and serve.

As for commitment, I highly doubt any kid enters the USNA with a "lets see what happens" attitude and would be very surprised if any young P2B presents on I -day with anything less than 100% commitment. In no small part, it's that commitment that got them there. That said, I don't know how many 18yo's or 19yos really have been tested the way they will be during PS and plebe year. It is a drastic departure from civilian life and freedoms. As noted earlier, it is hard for a reason. Thus don't know that any plebe or parent can really say with certainty what will happen going into plebe year. It's also why I think it's the only situation I think I would even fathom a Plan B.

I think the ethics of a Plan B are eased when you are fully upfront with the other institutions. The admissions committees at the other institutions are really in the best position to determine whether that is something they would be ok with or not. They are in the best position to say whether they would be willing to hold a spot for a student they thought would be a good fit at the original admission evaluation or if they would pass and admit a qualified student from their waitlist.

I would submit that the cleanest way to approach this is 1) Commit fully for PS and all of Plebe year. Anything shorter really does not give it a fair chance. You can do anything for a year and if not, probably didn't belong there anyways. 2) Do not hold a spot for the fall admission at any Plan B institution in case "PS doesn't work out" so as to not deny any deserving students on the waitlist. Instead ask for a deferred enrollment for the following year if they are wiling. 3) fully disclose and work with Plan B institutions if they are willing to work with you. I too am not in a position to judge or pick a side, but with the above approach I would feel comfortable from an ethical and moral standpoint.
 
I didn't see this mentioned, so here is another thought....

The biggest concern I have for DS having a plan B school on the hook isn't if he changes his mind PS, it's if he were to get injured and had to be turned away. At that point he would need a plan for the fall to attend another college, and his 4yr ROTC would probably be gone as a back up as well if he's injured. So his backup with scholarship would then be in play.
He currently doesn't have anything else on the hook, but it does concern me that an injury could really mess up everything he has worked so hard for and earned.
What would the kid do then?
 
shock-n-awe said:
I didn't see this mentioned, so here is another thought....

The biggest concern I have for DS having a plan B school on the hook isn't if he changes his mind PS, it's if he were to get injured and had to be turned away. At that point he would need a plan for the fall to attend another college, and his 4yr ROTC would probably be gone as a back up as well if he's injured. So his backup with scholarship would then be in play.
He currently doesn't have anything else on the hook, but it does concern me that an injury could really mess up everything he has worked so hard for and earned.
What would the kid do then?
Click to expand...

Good point... I wonder if Plan B schools would be ok holding spot until I Day (June 29) with full disclosure.

Hard to give up all backups and take risks that most other college students would not have to be exposed to in the case of injury.
 
Don't forget, @vadad23, that injury turn away includes up to I day AND potential injuries that happens during Plebe Summer that the "normal" college students don't worry about.
 
What is wrong with community college for a semester or two if the appointment doesn't stick? Or there is an injury? In my case, my DD will already have her AA but I told her she could go start another one, or start an AS. Universities take on new enrollments in January, and there is always next year. I work with a lot of people with a lot of letters after their names who began at community college. It really isn't the end of the world.

Edit: Luckily our Plan B deposit isn't required until May 1st but if she is wait listed, we are going full forward on Plan B and willing to lose any money if she get's called up. USNA is definitely worth it.
 
Ughhh.....this is not easy. Trying to do the right thing here for my DD while keeping ethics but no easy path here..
 
NavyLady64 said:
Just to present another side to the Plan B school "holding on to the deposit" issue - I have a DD still waiting for a decision here but I am also a college admissions professional. Here's what happens when you hold on to a deposit into late summer and don't tell the school you are not coming: some student out there had their heart set on Plan B school (just as much as ours do on USNA) and they were waitlisted. Sometime in late June, Plan B school looks at all its deposited students and says "that's it, we're full." They then deny the kid who stuck it out on their waitlist and who maybe desperately wanted to go to Plan B school. That kid accepts admission at another school, attends orientation, etc. Dream gone. THEN, your kid comes along in late summer and says (hey, I survived PS) so "nevermind" on my deposit to Plan B school. Schools know when the waitlist notifications go out and most are in late June, perhaps early July. We expect it and that this is when we get any cancellations we are going to for that cycle. We don't expect them August 15th.

So, as a person who has to make some of those heartbreaking denials, I just wanted to present another viewpoint. I am not picking a side or judging - just making everyone aware. I do tend to agree with those that say you should head into PS with a mindset ready to conquer, without an "escape hatch." If your D/S doesn't end up making it, they can re-apply to Plan B school for January admission in nearly every case.

Come on - be in it to win it! Your kids are fantastic (love hearing about them!) - they can do it!
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. I too work in admissions and agree 100%.
 
I don't think you have to sign any agreement re deposits when submitting the application. Like to see that case where a college or university would rescind an offer of acceptance for a deposit at another school. If they rescind their offer go to the other one. They want your kid and are still in the running. Why drop them? I have never heard of a prohibition after acceptance for making multiple deposits at any school. My children never signed an application requiring that upon acceptance to any school that they would not consider other schools requiring deposits. "I have never heard".
 
AF6872 said:
I don't think you have to sign any agreement re deposits when submitting the application. Like to see that case where a college or university would rescind an offer of acceptance for a deposit at another school. If they rescind their offer go to the other one. They want your kid and are still in the running. Why drop them? I have never heard of a prohibition after acceptance for making multiple deposits at any school. My children never signed an application requiring that upon acceptance to any school that they would not consider other schools requiring deposits. "I have never heard".
Click to expand...
  1. The Common Application can not be submitted without the agreement not to double deposit.
  2. High School College Counselors that belong to National Association for College Admission Counseling are required to report any of their students found to be double depositing to all colleges to which student was accepted.
  3. One case that was actually considered: Student sent acceptance forms and deposits to St. Lawrence University and Allegheny College, but accidentally put the Allegheny check in the St. Lawrence envelope. According to Admissions Director, committee met to consider rescinding offer but decided it was too harsh.
  4. Harvard University Admissions Director stated in an interview that they would revoke admission of any student found to be double depositing.
  5. USMA forum from last summer: Plan B was furious when they found out, but eventually decided not to report it to USMA.
 
vadad23 said:
Ughhh.....this is not easy. Trying to do the right thing here for my DD while keeping ethics but no easy path here..
Click to expand...
So here is my thought. Stop trying to "do the right thing FOR your DD". I have worked for over 15 years in High School Guidance and College Admissions and far to many times it is the parents who make things complicated for the kids. You have raised an amazing young woman and she needs to do this for herself. I just feel like everything has to have a plan B. Life sometimes just needs to play out. Sometimes, there should not be a plan B. Make a Plan A and move in that direction with a steadfast commitment to making it happen and maturity and resiliency to work it out if it does not. I have had two kids who started out at one college and at the end of the year moved on to another. One did have to attend community college for a semester, then transfer to UMD. She ended up graduating in three years. The second is my P2B. Attended a private university, by December realized she made a mistake and now is headed to USNA. She is walking away from a big merit scholarship and knows that if she is injured or decides again she made the wrong choice then we will have to go back to the drawing board. This is an event in their life and sometimes you have to just let the event happen. Breath and enjoy the ride. It really is not this complicated. Have faith...............................that her commitments in life are hers to make. Sorry not a sermon just a thought.
"In order to 'hold fast' to something, one must allow oneself to be held to something. That commitment may be one of the hardest things to practice in a world of so much choice."
 
jl123 said:
AF6872 said:
I don't think you have to sign any agreement re deposits when submitting the application. Like to see that case where a college or university would rescind an offer of acceptance for a deposit at another school. If they rescind their offer go to the other one. They want your kid and are still in the running. Why drop them? I have never heard of a prohibition after acceptance for making multiple deposits at any school. My children never signed an application requiring that upon acceptance to any school that they would not consider other schools requiring deposits. "I have never heard".
Click to expand...
  1. The Common Application can not be submitted without the agreement not to double deposit.
  2. High School College Counselors that belong to National Association for College Admission Counseling are required to report any of their students found to be double depositing to all colleges to which student was accepted.
  3. One case that was actually considered: Student sent acceptance forms and deposits to St. Lawrence University and Allegheny College, but accidentally put the Allegheny check in the St. Lawrence envelope. According to Admissions Director, committee met to consider rescinding offer but decided it was too harsh.
  4. Harvard University Admissions Director stated in an interview that they would revoke admission of any student found to be double depositing.
  5. USMA forum from last summer: Plan B was furious when they found out, but eventually decided not to report it to USMA.
Click to expand...

I had planned to stay out of this discussion since I have posted on the similar threads before, but decided to throw in a couple of points that seem to be missing:
1) Paying an enrollment deposit at a public/private university or college is NOT double depositing when accepting an appointment to an SA. There is NO deposit required at an SA. Some may argue that USMA or USNA requires a deposit, but from my understanding, if the appointee cannot afford the "initial upfront money", he/she will get a the money loaned by the SA. USAFA doesn't even ask for money up front, it is a loan from the start for initial expenses. Hence, No deposit.
2) Maybe on some college forms it is different, but on the one to which DD had as Plan B, it specifically asked if it was her 1st choice or 2nd choice school. She always marked 2nd choice, which then negated her eligibility for additional scholarships beyond what she already had for this university.

Throughout the entire process of application, acceptance, enrollment fee, scheduling the orientation date, etc. DD was upfront with the university about it being her 2nd choice and why (USAFA). The university was completely fine with it and worked with her to schedule the orientation date for the latest one possible (after BCT but before the start of classes) just in case she was injured and turned back for medical. They just asked that she notify them as soon as she knew for sure she would not be attending and wished her the best.
 
Does anyone know how often do injuries before I-day or during Plebe summer actually sideline a candidate for the year?
 
And the clients of the Common App are the Colleges not the applicant. Intimidation is a terrible thing for an eighteen year old. I would like to see the court case that made that provision stick or the college that would even bring the case. Colleges sharing applicant information? Sounds like collusion to me.
 
vadad23 said:
Does anyone know how often do injuries before I-day or during Plebe summer actually sideline a candidate for the year?
Click to expand...

It does in fact happen every year. Wanna know the most exciting part? You never know who it will happen to! I cannot emphasize enough the need to have a Plan B solidly in place until the academic year begins.
 
Capri120 said:
jl123 said:
AF6872 said:
I don't think you have to sign any agreement re deposits when submitting the application. Like to see that case where a college or university would rescind an offer of acceptance for a deposit at another school. If they rescind their offer go to the other one. They want your kid and are still in the running. Why drop them? I have never heard of a prohibition after acceptance for making multiple deposits at any school. My children never signed an application requiring that upon acceptance to any school that they would not consider other schools requiring deposits. "I have never heard".
Click to expand...
  1. The Common Application can not be submitted without the agreement not to double deposit.
  2. High School College Counselors that belong to National Association for College Admission Counseling are required to report any of their students found to be double depositing to all colleges to which student was accepted.
  3. One case that was actually considered: Student sent acceptance forms and deposits to St. Lawrence University and Allegheny College, but accidentally put the Allegheny check in the St. Lawrence envelope. According to Admissions Director, committee met to consider rescinding offer but decided it was too harsh.
  4. Harvard University Admissions Director stated in an interview that they would revoke admission of any student found to be double depositing.
  5. USMA forum from last summer: Plan B was furious when they found out, but eventually decided not to report it to USMA.
Click to expand...

I had planned to stay out of this discussion since I have posted on the similar threads before, but decided to throw in a couple of points that seem to be missing:
1) Paying an enrollment deposit at a public/private university or college is NOT double depositing when accepting an appointment to an SA. There is NO deposit required at an SA.
Click to expand...
Common App Statement: “I affirm that I will send an enrollment deposit (or equivalent) to only one institution; sending multiple deposits (or equivalent) may result in the withdrawal of my admission offers from all institutions.“

It is the acceptance, not the deposit, that is relevant. Some do not pay a deposit at all due to hardship, scholarship, etc - thus the use of "equivalent". Parsing the meaning of "deposit" is a semantic fine point that does not carry much weight once you have been caught.

My only concern is that people reading these forums do not end up in a very uncomfortable position because of uninformed advice. Be upfront with Plan B or be certain you won't get caught.
 
AF6872 said:
Colleges sharing applicant information? Sounds like collusion to me.
Click to expand...
To my knowledge colleges have not shared such information for many years. They rely on high school counselors to prevent and report violations, assisting in the process by sending names of students that have accepted offers.
 
nolamomma said:
vadad23 said:
Ughhh.....this is not easy. Trying to do the right thing here for my DD while keeping ethics but no easy path here..
Click to expand...
So here is my thought. Stop trying to "do the right thing FOR your DD". I have worked for over 15 years in High School Guidance and College Admissions and far to many times it is the parents who make things complicated for the kids. You have raised an amazing young woman and she needs to do this for herself. I just feel like everything has to have a plan B. Life sometimes just needs to play out. Sometimes, there should not be a plan B. Make a Plan A and move in that direction with a steadfast commitment to making it happen and maturity and resiliency to work it out if it does not. I have had two kids who started out at one college and at the end of the year moved on to another. One did have to attend community college for a semester, then transfer to UMD. She ended up graduating in three years. The second is my P2B. Attended a private university, by December realized she made a mistake and now is headed to USNA. She is walking away from a big merit scholarship and knows that if she is injured or decides again she made the wrong choice then we will have to go back to the drawing board. This is an event in their life and sometimes you have to just let the event happen. Breath and enjoy the ride. It really is not this complicated. Have faith...............................that her commitments in life are hers to make. Sorry not a sermon just a thought.
"In order to 'hold fast' to something, one must allow oneself to be held to something. That commitment may be one of the hardest things to practice in a world of so much choice."
Click to expand...

nolamomma - WELL SAID! Commitment can involve passing up what in hindsight might have been better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top