Plebe Summer - First Phone Call on Sunday July 11th

[tothetop14]

The chat with my DD yesterday was overall very upbeat. One problem she's wrestling with is that in her platoon, there were 2 Plebes who committed honor offenses and the rest of the platoon is punished as a result. She said that in the middle of the afternoon they had "ITE", I think that's what she said. I think she said it was Intensive Training Exercise but the phone reception wasn't the best. One kid lied about something and another kid had a cell phone in his room and was using it on a regular basis to make calls and text. I can only guess that he got the phone from his parents during the visit after the swearing in ceremony on I-Day. There's also another kid who showed up to Plebe Summer with the ability to only do 32 curl-ups. I can't remember how many a guy should do, but DD said the rest of the platoon then has to do extras for his inability to do more.

What a shame that someone didnt feel the rules were for him (they were both guys) and that another didn't feel that the suggestions for physical preparation were to be taken seriously, because it's those things that create problems in a group.

I guess I understand why the whole platoon gets punished, but then again, I really don't.

 

[Memphis9489]

The chat with my DD yesterday was overall very upbeat. One problem she's wrestling with is that in her platoon, there were 2 Plebes who committed honor offenses and the rest of the platoon is punished as a result. She said that in the middle of the afternoon they had "ITE", I think that's what she said. I think she said it was Intensive Training Exercise but the phone reception wasn't the best. One kid lied about something and another kid had a cell phone in his room and was using it on a regular basis to make calls and text. I can only guess that he got the phone from his parents during the visit after the swearing in ceremony on I-Day. There's also another kid who showed up to Plebe Summer with the ability to only do 32 curl-ups. I can't remember how many a guy should do, but DD said the rest of the platoon then has to do extras for his inability to do more.

What a shame that someone didnt feel the rules were for him (they were both guys) and that another didn't feel that the suggestions for physical preparation were to be taken seriously, because it's those things that create problems in a group.

I guess I understand why the whole platoon gets punished, but then again, I really don't.

Get used to stories about certain midshipmen not living up to what you have in your mind as the high standards and ideals of the United States Naval Academy.

Stories such as these will continue to pop-up for all four years of your daughter's stay. For the most part, most of the midshipmen are truly "America's finest", but the Naval Academy selection process is not infallible. It has been under increased criticism and scrutiny, in the past few years in particular, for being a bit too tolerant of a few "bad seeds" that invariably work their way in.

As "egregious" as these infractions seem to be, just remember that from a civilian school perspective - these are laughable. They only seem so bad because of the context of it occurring at the Naval Academy - an institution known for its high standards.

The "infractions" you have cited from your daughter are not even that big of a deal in comparison to some of the other stuff I've heard.

As far as honor offenses are concerned, the Plebes are not fully indoctrinated in the the Honor Concept as of yet. They will attend many lectures on this topic and are not really held to the same standard as those who have been fully indoctrinated. There will come a time, in the very near future, when honor offenses will become a much bigger deal.

I have always warned my sons: Never allow a conduct offense morph into an honor offense. A conduct offense is usually just demerits or some restriction - although inconvenient, it is a very survivable offense. An honor offense, on the other hand, can put a midshipman's place in the Brigade in jeopardy. If you break a rule and are caught - just 'fess up and take your punishment. Don't try to lie your way out of it.

"Are you hiding a cellphone in your room?"
"Sir, yes, sir."
"Why have you done that?"
"Sir, no excuse, sir."

Big trouble.

"Are you hiding a cellphone in your room?
"Sir, no, sir."

<a cellphone is discovered in the room>

Bigger trouble.

With regards to the 32 curl-ups.

It makes you wonder how that person passed their CFA, doesn't it?

I'm convinced that there are a good number of fraudulent CFA's submitted. All a candidate needs is a buddy-buddy gym teacher at their high school, maybe even their varsity coach, who give them a little "help" by submitting results that were never achieved.

Practically from the first day of PEP there are Plebes who are placed in "remedial" status. That will be true even for upperclassmen. Believe it or not, you can get out-of-shape as a midshipman if you don't work at it.

 

[nfugleberg]

Thanks to ALL of you who responded...This is quite a new experience for not only my son, but me as well. Despite the fact that his dad is a USMMA grad and was in the Naval Reserve for 20 years, I STILL don't know the half of it. Yesterday's call wasn't necessarily a bad one, just an eye-opener. Got a letter today dated 7 July and he was very upbeat in it! Only asked for shower gel and special soap for acne. For the blood on his cover, I got some hydrogen peroxide, some cotton, and, if all else fails, white shoe polish and white out! Must learn to be very inventive!

I really appreciate all the advice from the "seasoned" parents - your words are invaluable.

Also got a packet about PPW - For some reason, I was under the impression that we could attend PEP Friday morning but it states that it's not open to the public - and I was really looking forward to cheering on the class of 2014!

Has anyone been able to do this previously? Or did I get some inaccurate information?

Thanks again to all.

 

[Memphis9489]

Also got a packet about PPW - For some reason, I was under the impression that we could attend PEP Friday morning but it states that it's not open to the public - and I was really looking forward to cheering on the class of 2014!

Has anyone been able to do this previously? Or did I get some inaccurate information?

There was a time when PEP was open for the parents/public.

Recently, the academy's official stance on PEP is that it is not open for the parents/public.

That was also the case for the Class of 2013.

The reality of it was this - there were parents watching PEP - it's just that they were not allowed onto the field and sit in the bleachers. That's what they mean by "closed". Nobody was there saying, "I'm sorry folks - you cannot stand there and watch." Everybody just stood outside the fence and watched. If you're there early enough you can watch all the Plebes run right by you and leave within feet of you as they use only one, narrow exit for going on & off the field.

If your Plebe catches a glimpse of you, it will really lift his/her spirits. They'll love it!

Enter through Gate 1 and make the second left on Brownson Road. The PEP field will be on your right, just a short distance down the road. It's an artificial turf field.

Park some place and watch. Nobody is going to care.

You'll have your "Parent Card" which will allow you onto the Yard. They're not going to stop you at the gate and say, "I'm sorry, the Yard is off limits until PEP is completed."

My wife and I watched!

Actually, my wife is the one who dragged me there so early in the morning. I didn't feel the burning need to watch 1200 people do push-ups that early. There was not stopping her, though.

NOTE: I forget the academy's policy about parking on the Yard during PPW. It's probably in your PPW packet. If either parent is an alum and lifetime member of the USNA Alumni Association, get a "parking pass" at the Alumni House. That way you can drive and park on the Yard. A very nice perk. There are some times where the "Parent Card" will get you through the gate, but it is not authorization to park.

Better yet - if you have a DoD sticker on your car ... do whatever you want!

Quite frankly - nobody is monitoring that closely. There are tons of parking spots throughout the Yard during the summer.

My advice: If you want to watch PEP - go watch it!

Damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead!

 

[MIDNDAD]

Thanks to ALL of you who responded...This is quite a new experience for not only my son, but me as well. Despite the fact that his dad is a USMMA grad and was in the Naval Reserve for 20 years, I STILL don't know the half of it. Yesterday's call wasn't necessarily a bad one, just an eye-opener. Got a letter today dated 7 July and he was very upbeat in it! Only asked for shower gel and special soap for acne. For the blood on his cover, I got some hydrogen peroxide, some cotton, and, if all else fails, white shoe polish and white out! Must learn to be very inventive!

I really appreciate all the advice from the "seasoned" parents - your words are invaluable.

Also got a packet about PPW - For some reason, I was under the impression that we could attend PEP Friday morning but it states that it's not open to the public - and I was really looking forward to cheering on the class of 2014!


Has anyone been able to do this previously? Or did I get some inaccurate information?

Thanks again to all.

PEP was offically closed 3 years ago due to parents going over the top with signs, chants and generally making a nusance of themsleves. So your packet is officially correct.

That said: The Naval Academy is a public facility and Gate 1 opens to the public at 06:00. So on Friday, as a parent, if you want to get on the yard at 06:00 you are welcome to do so. Now if you happen to "unofficially" walk over to the PEP fileld and very quietly walk in and sit down in the stands, you will most likely find no one will stop you. Do not cheer, wave or otherwise distract the proceedings and you will likly find nobody cares that you are there.

The firsty's do know you are there and you will likly find the exercise cadence for the last 10 minutes will change to "Hi Mom, HI Dad". As a parent it is fun to watch. REMEMBER you are still not allowed to "offically" see or speak to your plebe yet. DO NOT approach them after PEP concludes, the most you might get is a quick covert wave and they are gone back into Bancroft until they are released later that day.

The above is just my personal advice and you can take that for what it's worth.

 

[nfugleberg]

Thanks!!! That said, I am so THERE on Friday morning! And I am NOT a morning person....

 

[Profmom2]

Class of 2010 was the last class for PEP open to the public. We are continually blamed for "ruining it" for the future classes. As someone there I can tell you that it was not over the top. There was no cheering that was not "lead" by the PEP Coordinator. (I do not believe he was an officer but was a Civilian Contractor) There were some companies that had TShirts that were made by Thorntons and sold to the Parents - USNA fully aware of Thorntons doing this as Thorntons was USNA's photo contractor!

Looking back at USNA2010and07 dropshots and my own pictures there was only ONE poster and it was for Delta Company!
http://www.dropshots.com/USNA2010and07#date/2006-08-11
(Only Barbara and USNA2010 were posting on drop shots that summer)
From My pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/BJRix.131/PlebeParentsWeekend#

Pure and simple: Change of Leadership during 2007.

 

[MIDNDAD]

Very true. Fowler's term produced some positive changes and some not so welcome changes. Now that he is leaving a year early under the cloud of an IG inspection, not a lot of tears being shed either.

 

[AF6872]

We had open PEP for 2011 (maybe not official). There was no cheering, signs or "HI WALDO" screaming from the bleachers. Lots of picture taking and laughs with the "Hi Mom, Hi Dad" cadence. Other than that nothing out of the ordinary. Nfugleberg take your coffee and your camera and wander over to the field. What are they going to do arrest you for sitting in the bleachers.

 

[cycle1994]

Let me see if I have this right. We are sending our Son's and Daughters to an Academy were character, integrity and accepting the rules are paramount. Yet because we as parents don't like the rules it's ok to break them and do what we want! Wow that really sends a positive message to our Plebes. Maybe your kids are different, but if my Plebe saw us somewere like PEP, when we had been told it wasn't open to parents, he would be furious and embarrassed by....no matter how much he misses us. I don't recall a box asking parents what they wanted in the application or acceptance letters

 

[AF6872]

PEP on Friday before PPW is a fun time for parents that get up that early and everyone knows it (unless it is raining). You are not breaking the rules. You are allowed on the Yard any time after the gate is opened. You can wander over and sit in the bleachers, park in the Midstore Parking Lot and wait for it to open, go to the Visitors Center, the Chapel or the Museum. Just don't run onto the field and hug them. The Detailers know you are there and they will take it into account and they really don't care. Almost all of them had the same experience. Believe me you will only get a glimpse of your Plebe and unless you have a telephoto lens you will not get any good pictures and he/she will be too busy to see you. They will still do "Hi Mom, Hi Dad cadence". Semper Gumby and enjoy the weekend. It's not engraved in stone.

 

[AF6872]

My daughter just hijacked my AVATAR and then deleted her comment. It was a long one. As a 1/c detailer she is all for parents at PEP on Friday. She never knew we were there. If they don't want you there they will have MIDS standing at the entrance telling you you can't enter the field (like they did at Sea Trials). If they don't prohibit your entrance just go in and sit in the stands or around the track.

 

[Memphis9489]

Let me see if I have this right. We are sending our Son's and Daughters to an Academy were character, integrity and accepting the rules are paramount. Yet because we as parents don't like the rules it's ok to break them and do what we want! Wow that really sends a positive message to our Plebes. Maybe your kids are different, but if my Plebe saw us somewere like PEP, when we had been told it wasn't open to parents, he would be furious and embarrassed by....no matter how much he misses us. I don't recall a box asking parents what they wanted in the application or acceptance letters

Lighten up, Francis.

Believe me, if the Naval Academy absolutely, positively didn't want you peeking at PEP, then they wouldn't allow people holding Parents Cards (or anybody, for that matter) onto the Yard until it was over. But they do.

And you've already been told that, despite it being "closed", in a tongue-in-cheek manner, they acknowledge the presence of the parents with cadences.

Would a tourist, having no connection to the Class of 2014, who just so happened to be on the Yard early in the morning, and not having received the Plebe Parents Weekend packet, be told to stay away from the PEP field? No!

We've told you the reality of the situation.

If any parent thinks they are going to be some kind of moral beacon for their midshipman by not attending PEP, fine. Don't go! You'll be making the world a better place.

Even the midshipmen will learn, there are rules and there are RULES.

Hell, half the fun of being a midshipman is learning which are the real rules and which are the not-so-serious rules. Parents don't get demerits and don't get put on restriction.

My sons already know my character and they certainly don't need any reinforcement of that because of a PEP-rule that the academy doesn't even think is important enough to enforce.

You might as well say that you are a bad moral example for your kid when you knowingly go 73mph on a highway clearly marked 70mph.

I respect your viewpoint. I see where you're coming from. I would just say it's very Utopian, very literal, very inflexible, and a bit sanctimonious.

My kids are on their own now and they are charting their own moral course. The lessons from me are over.

Plebes will soon be going on recon raids - if they haven't already started. That means they will be sneaking out of their rooms under the cover of darkness (against the rules!) and doing whatever mischievous thing they have planned. They will be praised for their daring and ingenuity by the upperclassmen should they pull it off.

But isn't that against the rules????

I know of one 2013 Plebe who stole (aghast!) one of the detailer's yellow "Detailer Shirts". He wore it as a testament of his cunning. Imagine a 2013 Plebe walking around wearing a 2010 detailer shirt. That's funny!

But wait! Isn't that an honor offense? That's stealing!

Nahhhhh.

This past year, I saw my son in a photograph marching in the parade without anchors on his collar. I text'd him, "What's the deal? How in the heck could you forget your anchors?"

What really happened is that one of the firsties in his company lost his anchors. He told my son that if he gave him his anchors, that he would get 3-days of media privileges. So my son gave them to the firstie. After all, the firstie was in the front row and very visible. My son was buried more within the pack.

Yet, technically, that kind of bargaining/bribing a Plebe is against the rules.

Again, there are rules and REAL rules.

OK, now somebody can give me the "slippery slope" lecture. Breaking small rules leads to breaking bigger rules which leads to cocaine addiction.

Somehow, I think there is room for common sense in all of this.

Go to PEP if you want. Don't go if you are going to be racked with guilt for the rest of your life.

 

[scoutpilot]

​

Again, there are rules and REAL rules.

OK, now somebody can give me the "slippery slope" lecture. Breaking small rules leads to breaking bigger rules which leads to cocaine addiction.

Somehow, I think there is room for common sense in all of this.

Go to PEP if you want. Don't go if you are going to be racked with guilt for the rest of your life.

*Slow clap*

I tried to tell someone that awhile back...there's mandatory-but-we-can't/don't-enforce-it and there's MANDATORY.

 

[nfugleberg]

Gotta love common sense. THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[buff81]

*Slow clap*

I tried to tell someone that awhile back...there's mandatory-but-we-can't/don't-enforce-it and there's MANDATORY.

'Last word' -

 

[AF6872]

Love The: "Lighten Up Francis" "It Is Aliveeeeeee" Many a TI I knew and loved was just like SGT Hulka. As a former TI I know that rules are rules but detailers are not martinets and we can all turn a blind eye to some things. Loved the stories and pictures of the Ho Chi Mihn Trail underground to get Slurpies and then pictures of them jumping off the bridge into the water on the way back to Mother B. Or hanging the football banners in the middle of the night from the light poles out toward the Stadium when the Annapolis Police arrive with a spotlight. Their comment: "Don't fall off the pole and kill yourself or we will have to write a report". They do what they do. And everything was a No No. They survive and thrive and common sense will prevail.

 

[Mongo]

Lighten up, Francis.

Believe me, if the Naval Academy absolutely, positively didn't want you peeking at PEP, then they wouldn't allow people holding Parents Cards (or anybody, for that matter) onto the Yard until it was over. But they do.

And you've already been told that, despite it being "closed", in a tongue-in-cheek manner, they acknowledge the presence of the parents with cadences.

Would a tourist, having no connection to the Class of 2014, who just so happened to be on the Yard early in the morning, and not having received the Plebe Parents Weekend packet, be told to stay away from the PEP field? No!

We've told you the reality of the situation.



If any parent thinks they are going to be some kind of moral beacon for their midshipman by not attending PEP, fine. Don't go! You'll be making the world a better place.

Even the midshipmen will learn, there are rules and there are RULES.

Hell, half the fun of being a midshipman is learning which are the real rules and which are the not-so-serious rules. Parents don't get demerits and don't get put on restriction.

My sons already know my character and they certainly don't need any reinforcement of that because of a PEP-rule that the academy doesn't even think is important enough to enforce.

You might as well say that you are a bad moral example for your kid when you knowingly go 73mph on a highway clearly marked 70mph.

I respect your viewpoint. I see where you're coming from. I would just say it's very Utopian, very literal, very inflexible, and a bit sanctimonious.

My kids are on their own now and they are charting their own moral course. The lessons from me are over.

Plebes will soon be going on recon raids - if they haven't already started. That means they will be sneaking out of their rooms under the cover of darkness (against the rules!) and doing whatever mischievous thing they have planned. They will be praised for their daring and ingenuity by the upperclassmen should they pull it off.

But isn't that against the rules????

I know of one 2013 Plebe who stole (aghast!) one of the detailer's yellow "Detailer Shirts". He wore it as a testament of his cunning. Imagine a 2013 Plebe walking around wearing a 2010 detailer shirt. That's funny!

But wait! Isn't that an honor offense? That's stealing!

Nahhhhh.

This past year, I saw my son in a photograph marching in the parade without anchors on his collar. I text'd him, "What's the deal? How in the heck could you forget your anchors?"

What really happened is that one of the firsties in his company lost his anchors. He told my son that if he gave him his anchors, that he would get 3-days of media privileges. So my son gave them to the firstie. After all, the firstie was in the front row and very visible. My son was buried more within the pack.

Yet, technically, that kind of bargaining/bribing a Plebe is against the rules.

Again, there are rules and REAL rules.

OK, now somebody can give me the "slippery slope" lecture. Breaking small rules leads to breaking bigger rules which leads to cocaine addiction.

Somehow, I think there is room for common sense in all of this.

Go to PEP if you want. Don't go if you are going to be racked with guilt for the rest of your life.

I think this just goes to show that one can attempt to rationalize anything.

Please be aware that all your examples of rule breaking, with the exception of the anchor exchange, which would have gotten the first in trouble had an officer witnessed it, fall under the ‘spirit’ category and there are most definitely ‘unwritten rules’ for what is acceptable in this arena.

Back in my day, anyone attempting a response such as this would be labeled a ‘sea lawyer’.

To lead, one must first learn to follow. A part of following is accepting orders with apparently no meaning. From the number of anonymous leaks by the Brigade to the press when things don’t transpire as they see fit, apparently this concept has been one of Admiral Fowler’s greatest challenges. Knowing that the acorn doesn’t fall too far from the tree, perhaps he is using the number of parents who show up at PEP as a gauge as to how difficult the Academy’s tasking along these lines will be in the upcoming four years.

I don’t know if you have noticed, but the “Question Authority” bumper sticker is not a big seller in the mid store.

One last question. If the Administration had wanted parents at Friday morning PEP, why do you think they made the announcement that they did in the letter? I’m with cycle1994 on this one.

 

[Memphis9489]

Back in my day, anyone attempting a response such as this would be labeled a ‘sea lawyer’.

To lead, one must first learn to follow. A part of following is accepting orders with apparently no meaning. From the number of anonymous leaks by the Brigade to the press when things don’t transpire as they see fit, apparently this concept has been one of Admiral Fowler’s greatest challenges. Knowing that the acorn doesn’t fall too far from the tree, perhaps he is using the number of parents who show up at PEP as a gauge as to how difficult the Academy’s tasking along these lines will be in the upcoming four years.

I don’t know if you have noticed, but the “Question Authority” bumper sticker is not a big seller in the mid store.

One last question. If the Administration had wanted parents at Friday morning PEP, why do you think they made the announcement that they did in the letter? I’m with cycle1994 on this one.

Thanks for the lecture in leadership. But, I'm not in the military anymore. I rather consider "sea lawyer" a compliment at this point in my life.

But I am an airline captain and I think I still understand what is truly harmful in nature and what is mostly perfunctory.

From an altruistic point-of-view, I cannot argue with this extremely sanctimonious position.

Somehow, I have a feeling the Naval Academy will have a way of letting everybody know when they are dead serious about PEP being "closed."

For now, it seems to be, "No harm, no foul."

I've paid my lifetime dues to the United States Naval Academy Alumni Association - so I don't feel too intimidated or shy in being judgmental. I dare say I've been far more supportive of the Naval Academy than most over the past 31 years since I've graduated.

On a scale from 1 to 10 in importance, attending a "closed" session of PEP during Plebe Parents Weekend ranks somewhere around -3. And, as evidenced by the administration's "strict" enforcement of this back-and-forth "policy", they seem to rank it similarly.

By the way, isn't watching your son/daughter at PEP also "spirit related"? Is it not a morale boost for all involved? You seem to be acknowledging that there is some kind of "exclusionary rule" in that regard - so, maybe we're in agreement after all!

 

[MIDNDAD]

Memphis - Add me to the list of people doing a slow hand clap for your posts. As a former grad and now a parent of 2 Mids you bring a very unique view to the forum.

There are rules and there are rules but there are exceptions to the rules based on circumstances. This is where personal initiative and judgement kicks in. All really good leaders weather they are military or corporate figure this out.

Common Sense: USNA is a public faclity that opens at 06:00. As civilians, we are allowed to walk around the yard pretty much anywhere we want to. If you walk over to the PEP field and Mids are standing by the gates telling parents they are not allowed entrance then you do not get to sit in the stands and watch. If nobody is there to stop you then you walk in have a seat and watch PEP. If this is a serious policy it will be enforced if it's not then it's up to you if this is something you want to wantch or not.